Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Viper0011.]

Sir you are right but Lock head Martin is begging for F16 production in India, What would be the future of Pakistan's F16s.

Pakistan needs to find a new Tier I platform and put less flying miles on the -16's to keep them as a backup. I covered everything in one sentence!!

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir you are right but Lock head Martin is begging for F16 production in India, What would be the future of Pakistan's F16s.

Hi,

There is no future for new F16's in pakistan. There SHOULD be no future of F16's in pakistan.

The J10 is still the best bet around. A good deal maker will grind the chinese down to a very lucrative deal---either with selective chinese turkish italian & spanish ew systems---this aircraft can be upgraded from being a very good aircraft into an excellent aircraft---.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Hi,

There is no future for new F16's in pakistan. There SHOULD be no future of F16's in pakistan.

The J10 is still the best bet around. A good deal maker will grind the chinese down to a very lucrative deal---either with selective chinese turkish italian & spanish ew systems---this aircraft can be upgraded from being a very good aircraft into an excellent aircraft---.

Nay sire we will wait till 2030 when j-xx will be enough mature to be inducted,till then we will produce a single engine short legged fighter which has to carry more fuel then ordnance and once jettisons drop tanks will surely have to run back to base aborting a mission because engine needs fuel.Then we will gather all used F-16 from everywhere and we will be largest f sola operator,look we are largest operator of legendary fighter it's a honour to be that.
If a war happens and we met a failure in AW we will just blame Govt and you know it will work.I sometime wonder Army takes government why it can't twist Government Arm to get new fighters rather housing schemes.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Viper0011.]

Nay sire we will wait till 2030 when j-xx will be enough mature to be inducted,till then we will produce a single engine short legged fighter which has to carry more fuel then ordnance and once jettisons drop tanks will surely have to run back to base aborting a mission because engine needs fuel.Then we will gather all used F-16 from everywhere and we will be largest f sola operator,look we are largest operator of legendary fighter it's a honour to be that.
If a war happens and we met a failure in AW we will just blame Govt and you know it will work.I sometime wonder Army takes government why it can't twist Government Arm to get new fighters rather housing schemes.

Wow, you covered everything in this one post. When failure happens, and it will if you keep being the largest operator of some 4 decade old platforms, while your enemy has over 1000 top of the line jets, 500 of which based within a 20 minute flight to your country, "the man" behind "the machine" (a famous concept in the PAF), will simply fail as he'll be taken out from 60-100 KM's away!!

And what would happen?? As always "the Civilians" will be blamed!! Just like right now, many on here, support a military government in Pakistan without realizing who is going to fed the generals and the 550 strong army? There is no more US aid and any other aid to be diverted to the military. Now the civilians have to produce to feed the military. If the military comes into power, well, the Chinese, Turks and everyone else will take their investments out. But as always, its the civilians who somehow made sure the PAF should operate the most legacy fighters of all times, be it the Mirages or the F-16's going forward.

You must break this habit of total reliance almost down to a slave level, with a platform (Mirages, then, F-16 and now JFT). Or, you'll fail miserably!!

 

[monitor]

Photographer: Dibyangshu Sarkar/AFP via Getty Images
India Could Become Next Hub for F-16 Jets in a Blow to Pakistan

Nc Bipindra

Iain Marlow iainmarlow
August 23, 2016 — 4:00 AM BDT
Share on Facebook

• Proposal said to give India a say over jet purchases
• Pakistan may struggle to obtain spare F-16 parts under deal

Lockheed Martin Corp.’s offer to shift all of its F-16 manufacturing to India comes with an added benefit for Prime Minister Narendra Modi: A strategic win against nuclear rival Pakistan.

QUICKTAKEPakistan’s Turmoil




The proposal would give India partial control along with the U.S. over which countries are able to purchase F-16 fighter jets and spare parts, according to people familiar with the situation who asked not to be identified because the information isn’t public. That may allow India to choke off key supplies to Pakistan, which has relied on F-16s as its main aerial defense for decades, if the U.S. allows it do so.


“Some components may be produced only in India," Abhay Paranjape, director of business development at Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, said in an interview about the company’s F-16 proposal.

Asked whether Pakistan would still be able to source F-16 jets or parts elsewhere under the arrangement, Paranjape said questions about foreign military sales policies should be referred to the U.S. government. Roger Cabiness, a spokesman for the U.S. Department of Defense, in turn referred questions on the sale of F-16 spare parts to Lockheed.

The strategic element is a key selling point as Lockheed pushes to win an order that may exceed 100 fighter jets, part of Modi’s plan to spend $150 billion on the armed forces and create jobs under his “Make-in-India" policy. A deal would breathe new life into the F-16, an older model than the stealth F-35 warplane, and further boost U.S.-India defense ties at the expense of Pakistan.

India Focus
“What we are doing is putting India as the center of the supply base," Randall Howard, Lockheed Martin’s aeronautics business development director, said on Aug. 4 in New Delhi. “Today, there is no potential Pakistan sale."

India and Pakistan have been enemies ever since partition when Britain exited the region in 1947. The nuclear-armed neighbors have fought three wars over disputed territory, and have few economic ties.

U.S. relations with Pakistan have worsened in recent years. Congress in May refused to give subsidies for Pakistan to buy new F-16s, prompting it to considerbuying used ones from Jordan instead. The U.S. this month withheld another $300 million in military aid to Pakistan over its failure to take action against terrorists carrying out attacks on American troops in neighboring Afghanistan.

Pakistan Looking Elsewhere
Nafees Zakaria, a spokesman for Pakistan’s foreign ministry, declined to answer questions about Lockheed Martin’s F-16 proposal, as did Nungsanglemba Ao, a spokesman for India’s defense ministry.

The company’s overtures to India will prompt Pakistan to look more to China and Russia for military hardware, according to Najam Rafique, director at Islamabad’s Institute of Strategic Studies.

“Pakistan is diversifying its options," he said.

Competition for the India jet order is fierce. Lockheed Martin’s rivals such as Boeing Co. and Saab AB are all offering to shift some production to India as part of their bids to replenish India’s aging fleet. About a third of the nation’s 650 planes are more than 40 years old and set to retire in the next decade.

Stalled Negotiations
Modi last year scaled back an earlier deal with Dassault Aviation SA, opting to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets off the shelf instead of building 126 in India after negotiations hit repeated delays. That effort has since stalled over price, providing an opportunity to other jet-makers to step in. It’s unclear when a decision will be made.

Lockheed’s proposal attempts to turn its greatest weakness -- the fact that Pakistan also flies F-16s -- into a main reason for India to acquire the jet.

“Since India would house the only existing production line, it would be able to deny Pakistan any further platforms or also have influence on Pakistan Air Force logistics," said Pushan Das, who follows military modernization at the Observer Research Foundation in New Delhi.

Lockheed Martin, which is winding down F-16 production in the U.S., has successfully sold the jet for decades. The proposed facility in India would provide much-needed highly skilled jobs as Modi heads into several important state-level elections in 2017.

Manufacturing ‘Ecosystem’
“We are not looking at just assembling India’s F-16 here," Lockheed Martin’s Paranjape said. “We are looking at establishing a complete manufacturing base ecosystem."

Of course, it is still unclear which firm will win India’s lucrative fighter jet contract.

Some analysts dismiss the F-16 as a dated “fourth generation" platform opposed by the Indian Air Force because it won’t have major upgrades in the future. Others like Georgetown University associate professor C. Christine Fair have suggested New Delhi is unlikely to get a more advanced fighter jet made in India because of difficulties with transferring state-of-the-art technology.

While many obstacles remain, an agreement with Lockheed Martin would cement closer ties between the nations if the U.S. government doesn’t prevent the transfer of advanced radar or avionics technologies, according to Anit Mukherjee, an assistant professor at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.

“If this deal was to happen -- and that’s a big if -- then it will be a big plus for U.S.-India relations and a significant indicator of the transformation in the defense relationship," he said. “If this deal goes through, and the U.S. is honest about tech transfer, then it has the potential to really build up India’s military-industrial base."

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China Is About to Get Serious With Bad Debt

Lianting Tu
September 5, 2016 — 1:00 AM BDTUpdated on September 5, 2016 — 9:19 AM BDT
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• Banks raising capital to ‘tackle higher loan impairments’: Yap
• Hybrid sales by finance companies had fallen 38% this year

China’s banks, which dialed down fundraising efforts this year even as bad debts swelled, are making up for lost time.

Both lenders and the companies set up to acquire their delinquent assets are bolstering their finances. China Citic Bank Corp. last month announced plans to raise as much as 40 billion yuan ($6 billion), while Agricultural Bank of China Ltd., Industrial Bank Co. and China Zheshang Bank Co. are also boosting capital. China Cinda Asset Management Co. and China Huarong Asset Management Co. are poised to tap investors.

"Chinese banks are preemptively raising capital while pricing remains favorable in order to tackle higher loan impairments,” said Nicholas Yap, a credit analyst at Mitsubishi UFJ Securities HK Ltd. in Hong Kong. “Additionally, the mid- and small-sized lenders also need to boost their capital levels as they have been growing their asset bases rapidly, largely through their investment receivables portfolios."


Chinese banks have strained their finances with the busiest first-half lending spree on record, despite having the highest amount of bad debt in 11 years. Still, completed offerings of hybrid capital declined 38 percent after two consecutive years of record fundraising. A rule change in April that requires lenders to make full provisions for loan rights they have transferred is also encouraging the fundraising. BNP Paribas SA said Chinese lenders may be assessing the right time to approach investors.

“We do see a need for them to issue more, and expect them to raise more additional Tier-1 capital, if not this year then next year," said Charles Chang, head of Asia credit strategy and sector specialists at the firm in Hong Kong. “Loan growth continues to be pretty strong. Meanwhile, NPL ratios are ticking up so it would make sense."

China Zheshang Bank said it would raise 15 billion yuan selling offshore preference shares, securities with equity-like characteristics that count as Additional Tier-1 capital. In July, Industrial Bank said it plans to raise as much as 26 billion yuan in a private stock placement to replenish its highest-ranked buffer. Agricultural Bank will sell as much as 80 billion yuan of securities over three years for supplementary Tier-2 capital, the lender said in August.

“Much of the fundraising is also to support their balance sheet growth,” said Liao Qiang, banking analyst at S&P Global Ratings in Beijing. “This is also the reason why asset management companies are engaging in fundraising right now. They need more capital to support more purchases of bad loans.”


China Cinda has sent a request for proposals to banks for its planned 30 billion yuan equivalent dollar-denominated preference share offering, people familiar said last month. China Huarong plans to issue perpetual dollar bonds this month, separate people said in August.

Cinda is set to become the first Chinese asset management company to sell preference shares. So far in 2016, Chinese financial firms sold $24.1 billion of hybrid securities counted as capital, down 38 percent a year earlier, Bloomberg-compiled data show. China introduced stricter capital requirements to meet Basel III standards in January 2013 and Bank of China Ltd. was the first Chinese bank to sell preferred shares in 2014.

Natixis Asia Ltd. sees the big five lenders needing more capital as they take part in debt-to-equity swaps with delinquent borrowers. The French bank estimated in an Aug. 26 report the program would reduce their Tier-1 capital ratio by 3.3 percentage points to 9.1 percent. S&P says such swaps will only be a driver for fundraising when current trials are expanded.

“If it would be implemented system-wide, then you can certainly expect it to be another blow to the banks’ capital,” said Liao at S&P.

Before it's here, it's on the Bloomberg Terminal.LEARN MORE

 

[Sine Nomine]

Wow, you covered everything in this one post. When failure happens, and it will if you keep being the largest operator of some 4 decade old platforms, while your enemy has over 1000 top of the line jets, 500 of which based within a 20 minute flight to your country, "the man" behind "the machine" (a famous concept in the PAF), will simply fail as he'll be taken out from 60-100 KM's away!!

And what would happen?? As always "the Civilians" will be blamed!! Just like right now, many on here, support a military government in Pakistan without realizing who is going to fed the generals and the 550 strong army? There is no more US aid and any other aid to be diverted to the military. Now the civilians have to produce to feed the military. If the military comes into power, well, the Chinese, Turks and everyone else will take their investments out. But as always, its the civilians who somehow made sure the PAF should operate the most legacy fighters of all times, be it the Mirages or the F-16's going forward.

You must break this habit of total reliance almost down to a slave level, with a platform (Mirages, then, F-16 and now JFT). Or, you'll fail miserably!!

Simply it's million dollar question whom to blame for our sole reliance on just 76 fighters,I hold that view that JFT can't make any difference,reason you have seen it in normal configuration it carries 3 fuel tanks,it can only operate in borders it's unfit for role of leaving border and striking targets far from bases it lacks sufficient fuel capacity to do that,what 76 f sola will do currently we are in grave shortage of fighter jets if even we would have inducted 4 J 10 per year from start of that negotiations of acquiring them we will be having around 20+ right now.I haven't seen anybody meeting PM and asking him to do something we are in acquit shortage of fighters,all I hear f sola,then new x y z blocks of JFT and finally resting on a chinese fighter which will take at least 10 years to materialise to full form.

 

[khanasifm]

Turkey, so many other were/are building F16 they still have to meet ITAR and other requirements its not they can decide i need 10 this year for Turkish AF and just ignore US and Lockmart

 

[LadyFinger]

Anyone would appreciate having a good junkyard for their obsolete fleets, especially when they are getting no more good deals for such aircrafts, in this case 'the Lockheed martin'

Photographer: Dibyangshu Sarkar/AFP via Getty Images
India Could Become Next Hub for F-16 Jets in a Blow to Pakistan

Nc Bipindra

Iain Marlow iainmarlow
August 23, 2016 — 4:00 AM BDT
Share on Facebook

• Proposal said to give India a say over jet purchases
• Pakistan may struggle to obtain spare F-16 parts under deal

Lockheed Martin Corp.’s offer to shift all of its F-16 manufacturing to India comes with an added benefit for Prime Minister Narendra Modi: A strategic win against nuclear rival Pakistan.

QUICKTAKEPakistan’s Turmoil




The proposal would give India partial control along with the U.S. over which countries are able to purchase F-16 fighter jets and spare parts, according to people familiar with the situation who asked not to be identified because the information isn’t public. That may allow India to choke off key supplies to Pakistan, which has relied on F-16s as its main aerial defense for decades, if the U.S. allows it do so.


“Some components may be produced only in India," Abhay Paranjape, director of business development at Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, said in an interview about the company’s F-16 proposal.

Asked whether Pakistan would still be able to source F-16 jets or parts elsewhere under the arrangement, Paranjape said questions about foreign military sales policies should be referred to the U.S. government. Roger Cabiness, a spokesman for the U.S. Department of Defense, in turn referred questions on the sale of F-16 spare parts to Lockheed.

The strategic element is a key selling point as Lockheed pushes to win an order that may exceed 100 fighter jets, part of Modi’s plan to spend $150 billion on the armed forces and create jobs under his “Make-in-India" policy. A deal would breathe new life into the F-16, an older model than the stealth F-35 warplane, and further boost U.S.-India defense ties at the expense of Pakistan.

India Focus
“What we are doing is putting India as the center of the supply base," Randall Howard, Lockheed Martin’s aeronautics business development director, said on Aug. 4 in New Delhi. “Today, there is no potential Pakistan sale."

India and Pakistan have been enemies ever since partition when Britain exited the region in 1947. The nuclear-armed neighbors have fought three wars over disputed territory, and have few economic ties.

U.S. relations with Pakistan have worsened in recent years. Congress in May refused to give subsidies for Pakistan to buy new F-16s, prompting it to considerbuying used ones from Jordan instead. The U.S. this month withheld another $300 million in military aid to Pakistan over its failure to take action against terrorists carrying out attacks on American troops in neighboring Afghanistan.

Pakistan Looking Elsewhere
Nafees Zakaria, a spokesman for Pakistan’s foreign ministry, declined to answer questions about Lockheed Martin’s F-16 proposal, as did Nungsanglemba Ao, a spokesman for India’s defense ministry.

The company’s overtures to India will prompt Pakistan to look more to China and Russia for military hardware, according to Najam Rafique, director at Islamabad’s Institute of Strategic Studies.

“Pakistan is diversifying its options," he said.

Competition for the India jet order is fierce. Lockheed Martin’s rivals such as Boeing Co. and Saab AB are all offering to shift some production to India as part of their bids to replenish India’s aging fleet. About a third of the nation’s 650 planes are more than 40 years old and set to retire in the next decade.

Stalled Negotiations
Modi last year scaled back an earlier deal with Dassault Aviation SA, opting to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets off the shelf instead of building 126 in India after negotiations hit repeated delays. That effort has since stalled over price, providing an opportunity to other jet-makers to step in. It’s unclear when a decision will be made.

Lockheed’s proposal attempts to turn its greatest weakness -- the fact that Pakistan also flies F-16s -- into a main reason for India to acquire the jet.

“Since India would house the only existing production line, it would be able to deny Pakistan any further platforms or also have influence on Pakistan Air Force logistics," said Pushan Das, who follows military modernization at the Observer Research Foundation in New Delhi.

Lockheed Martin, which is winding down F-16 production in the U.S., has successfully sold the jet for decades. The proposed facility in India would provide much-needed highly skilled jobs as Modi heads into several important state-level elections in 2017.

Manufacturing ‘Ecosystem’
“We are not looking at just assembling India’s F-16 here," Lockheed Martin’s Paranjape said. “We are looking at establishing a complete manufacturing base ecosystem."

Of course, it is still unclear which firm will win India’s lucrative fighter jet contract.

Some analysts dismiss the F-16 as a dated “fourth generation" platform opposed by the Indian Air Force because it won’t have major upgrades in the future. Others like Georgetown University associate professor C. Christine Fair have suggested New Delhi is unlikely to get a more advanced fighter jet made in India because of difficulties with transferring state-of-the-art technology.

While many obstacles remain, an agreement with Lockheed Martin would cement closer ties between the nations if the U.S. government doesn’t prevent the transfer of advanced radar or avionics technologies, according to Anit Mukherjee, an assistant professor at Singapore’s S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies.

“If this deal was to happen -- and that’s a big if -- then it will be a big plus for U.S.-India relations and a significant indicator of the transformation in the defense relationship," he said. “If this deal goes through, and the U.S. is honest about tech transfer, then it has the potential to really build up India’s military-industrial base."

Before it's here, it's on the Bloomberg Terminal.LEARN MORE


India

• Lockheed Martin Corp

• Pakistan

• Jobs

• Narendra Damodardas Modi

• Military

From The Web
9 language man shares his top 10 tricks for learning any languageBabbel

Now You Can Track Your Car Using Your SmartphoneTrackR Bravo

1,000,000 are using this app to learn a new languageBabbel

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Sponsored Links






Photographer: Qilai Shen/Bloomberg
China Is About to Get Serious With Bad Debt

Lianting Tu
September 5, 2016 — 1:00 AM BDTUpdated on September 5, 2016 — 9:19 AM BDT
Share on Facebook

• Banks raising capital to ‘tackle higher loan impairments’: Yap
• Hybrid sales by finance companies had fallen 38% this year

China’s banks, which dialed down fundraising efforts this year even as bad debts swelled, are making up for lost time.

Both lenders and the companies set up to acquire their delinquent assets are bolstering their finances. China Citic Bank Corp. last month announced plans to raise as much as 40 billion yuan ($6 billion), while Agricultural Bank of China Ltd., Industrial Bank Co. and China Zheshang Bank Co. are also boosting capital. China Cinda Asset Management Co. and China Huarong Asset Management Co. are poised to tap investors.

"Chinese banks are preemptively raising capital while pricing remains favorable in order to tackle higher loan impairments,” said Nicholas Yap, a credit analyst at Mitsubishi UFJ Securities HK Ltd. in Hong Kong. “Additionally, the mid- and small-sized lenders also need to boost their capital levels as they have been growing their asset bases rapidly, largely through their investment receivables portfolios."


Chinese banks have strained their finances with the busiest first-half lending spree on record, despite having the highest amount of bad debt in 11 years. Still, completed offerings of hybrid capital declined 38 percent after two consecutive years of record fundraising. A rule change in April that requires lenders to make full provisions for loan rights they have transferred is also encouraging the fundraising. BNP Paribas SA said Chinese lenders may be assessing the right time to approach investors.

“We do see a need for them to issue more, and expect them to raise more additional Tier-1 capital, if not this year then next year," said Charles Chang, head of Asia credit strategy and sector specialists at the firm in Hong Kong. “Loan growth continues to be pretty strong. Meanwhile, NPL ratios are ticking up so it would make sense."

China Zheshang Bank said it would raise 15 billion yuan selling offshore preference shares, securities with equity-like characteristics that count as Additional Tier-1 capital. In July, Industrial Bank said it plans to raise as much as 26 billion yuan in a private stock placement to replenish its highest-ranked buffer. Agricultural Bank will sell as much as 80 billion yuan of securities over three years for supplementary Tier-2 capital, the lender said in August.

“Much of the fundraising is also to support their balance sheet growth,” said Liao Qiang, banking analyst at S&P Global Ratings in Beijing. “This is also the reason why asset management companies are engaging in fundraising right now. They need more capital to support more purchases of bad loans.”


China Cinda has sent a request for proposals to banks for its planned 30 billion yuan equivalent dollar-denominated preference share offering, people familiar said last month. China Huarong plans to issue perpetual dollar bonds this month, separate people said in August.

Cinda is set to become the first Chinese asset management company to sell preference shares. So far in 2016, Chinese financial firms sold $24.1 billion of hybrid securities counted as capital, down 38 percent a year earlier, Bloomberg-compiled data show. China introduced stricter capital requirements to meet Basel III standards in January 2013 and Bank of China Ltd. was the first Chinese bank to sell preferred shares in 2014.

Natixis Asia Ltd. sees the big five lenders needing more capital as they take part in debt-to-equity swaps with delinquent borrowers. The French bank estimated in an Aug. 26 report the program would reduce their Tier-1 capital ratio by 3.3 percentage points to 9.1 percent. S&P says such swaps will only be a driver for fundraising when current trials are expanded.

“If it would be implemented system-wide, then you can certainly expect it to be another blow to the banks’ capital,” said Liao at S&P.

Before it's here, it's on the Bloomberg Terminal.LEARN MORE

 

[barbarosa]

Pakistan needs to find a new Tier I platform and put less flying miles on the -16's to keep them as a backup. I covered everything in one sentence!!

Sir i agree with you, Pakistan should buy J10 as the alternative of F16 OR EURO FIGHTERS.

 

[monitor]

Anyone would appreciate having a good junkyard for their obsolete fleets, especially when they are getting no more good deals for such aircrafts, in this case 'the Lockheed martin'

F-16 with it's upgrade still not a junk. At least in India Pakistan scenario until India induct enough number of pakfa in its fleet. Pakistan have to continue rely on F-16 as it's first tier fighter but also needs to search for a better alternative in current changing geo political scenario.

 

[CHI RULES]

Wow, you covered everything in this one post. When failure happens, and it will if you keep being the largest operator of some 4 decade old platforms, while your enemy has over 1000 top of the line jets, 500 of which based within a 20 minute flight to your country, "the man" behind "the machine" (a famous concept in the PAF), will simply fail as he'll be taken out from 60-100 KM's away!!

And what would happen?? As always "the Civilians" will be blamed!! Just like right now, many on here, support a military government in Pakistan without realizing who is going to fed the generals and the 550 strong army? There is no more US aid and any other aid to be diverted to the military. Now the civilians have to produce to feed the military. If the military comes into power, well, the Chinese, Turks and everyone else will take their investments out. But as always, its the civilians who somehow made sure the PAF should operate the most legacy fighters of all times, be it the Mirages or the F-16's going forward.

You must break this habit of total reliance almost down to a slave level, with a platform (Mirages, then, F-16 and now JFT). Or, you'll fail miserably!!

Sir, I beg to differ from you and person you are admiring, the defense related purchases are made by ministry of defense and not by the PAF.( though their input is important).On the other hand the incentives like housing schemes are nothing worth for people who are willing to die for their country. Such schemes are there for Wapda employees, for Railway people and also for federal Govt employees. I wonder why only armed forces people are blamed when this is fact that they are getting far less incentives as compared to their adversaries.

On the other hand US aid has proved to be less effective for betterment of economy it is yes more or less used to develop more spies for USA in Pak. You may also get reality of the majority of World Bank/IMF projects not only for Pak but most of underdeveloped/developing countries.

As for army expenses it was the incapacity of previous Govt's to develop better strategies even in field of defense, the environment is changing perhaps mostly due to tilt of USA towards India. The CPEC project if handled properly shall be enough to support even double size army. Further armed forces are now doing all efforts to get self reliance and limited weapons exports have been started. The time shall come when our defense expenses major part shall be covered by our exports.

In USA case the most of defense expenses are offset by selling of weapons to Africa and rest of world mostly in conflict areas same is case with Russia. Now due to incapacity of the Arabs now USA is also sucking wealth of KSA,Quawit and other rich countries of the region. On the other hand the gold and wealth of Iraq has already been distributed between USA /EU allies involved in Iraq war.

Despite all negativity the JF17 project is going on and by the grace of Almighty shall bear fruit by 2018 when JF17-block-iii is launched. On the other hand if our PAF chief is going for visits to EU and other countries then it shows how desperate he is for getting new platform. Yet his hands are tied and decision maker is Govt.
The current position is being faced due to incapability of Gov to do lobbying in US senate to get F16V along with AMRAAM 120-D or AIM9-X. Even we are unable to get block 50+ F16s.

We should get ready to keep our F16s active till up to end of their service life as we did with Mirages. On the other hand should try to get Eu fighter jet trench-1 shall be available cheaply soon in large numbers and go for their upgrade later on. The combo of JF17s block-III and Euro fighters if inducted supported by F16s ( assuming no further upgrade) may suffice our requirements in medium term till induction of 5th gen fighter.

We should get ready to keep our F16s active till up to end of their service life as we did with Mirages. On the other hand should try to get Eu fighter jet trench-1 shall be available cheaply soon in large numbers and go for their upgrade later on. The combo of JF17s block-III and Euro fighters if inducted supported by F16s ( assuming no further upgrade) may suffice our requirements in medium term till induction of 5th gen fighter.

Hi,

There is no future for new F16's in pakistan. There SHOULD be no future of F16's in pakistan.

The J10 is still the best bet around. A good deal maker will grind the chinese down to a very lucrative deal---either with selective chinese turkish italian & spanish ew systems---this aircraft can be upgraded from being a very good aircraft into an excellent aircraft---.

Yes J10 is a good option if assumed to be a car, but there is short problem if car is running and have engine our any electronics issue we may stop it anywhere and get it repaired but not possible for flying jet.
The J10 has following issues.

1.Russian engine reliability. ( limited availability of Chinese engine)
2. Avionics issues
3. FBW issues.
4 Limited endurance.
5. Despite strict censorship many news of accidents.

China having such fighter jets in large numbers i.e 300+ may over come such issues especially losing some jets, however country like Pak getting limited numbers say 40-50 can't afford it same case as India having SU30s up to 220 if even 100 are available then they suffice IAF cause.

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes J10 is a good option if assumed to be a car, but there is short problem if car is running and have engine our any electronics issue we may stop it anywhere and get it repaired but not possible for flying jet.
The J10 has following issues.

1.Russian engine reliability. ( limited availability of Chinese engine)
2. Avionics issues
3. FBW issues.
4 Limited endurance.
5. Despite strict censorship many news of accidents.

China having such fighter jets in large numbers i.e 300+ may over come such issues especially losing some jets, however country like Pak getting limited numbers say 40-50 can't afford it same case as India having SU30s up to 220 if even 100 are available then they suffice IAF cause.

Hi,

What about the F7PG's we have been flying---they also had very poor flight record---the F16---when we received them first---they also had over 5--7 % atrocity rate---far higher than the 4% of the J10's.

A car is a reference given for the working of a machine---IN REFERENCE TO THE CONTEXT THAT IT IS USED UNDER----.

Even a fool would understand that a car is driven on the road and an aircraft is flying in air---except for some pakistanis.

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

What about the F7PG's we have been flying---they also had very poor flight record---the F16---when we received them first---they also had over 5--7 % atrocity rate---far higher than the 4% of the J10's.

A car is a reference given for the working of a machine---IN REFERENCE TO THE CONTEXT THAT IT IS USED UNDER----.

Even a fool would understand that a car is driven on the road and an aircraft is flying in air---except for some pakistanis.

Are you sure about F7 Pg poor flight record ? how you are sure that J10s have only 4% attrocity rate. Many pros have explained on same forum abt problems with FBW and engine of J10.

On the other hand a sales guy like you or finance guy like me are not qualified enough to judge J10 technically if not preferred then PAF may have reasons you may get some facts from Mr Oscar or Windjammer.

By the way flying car concept is also not new.

 

[MastanKhan]

Are you sure about F7 Pg poor flight record ? how you are sure that J10s have only 4% attrocity rate. Many pros have explained on same forum abt problems with FBW and engine of J10.

On the other hand a sales guy like you or finance guy like me are not qualified enough to judge J10 technically if not preferred then PAF may have reasons you may get some facts from Mr Oscar or Windjammer.

By the way flying car concept is also not new.

Hi,

You need to go back and look into the atrocity rate of the F16's in their first 20 years of life span---it comes down to over 10%.

A lot of it has to do with inherited problems---and a lots of it has to do with maintenance problems---. So the atrocity rate of the J10's is nothing out of the ordinary---.

Even though Hondas and toyotas are very reliable cars---we still sell extended warranties for their upkeep---.

When a customer does not want to buy an extended warranty---we take them back to the service dept to show the number of cars under repair---.

The J10 is still developing---J10 A B C and maybe another model---each one of them are going thru extensive & extreme flight training---what is it---only been in deployment for just around 12-14 years.

The chinese don't want to tell anyone what extreme missions were they flying at the time of the accident---over half of them were bird strikes---.

I had posted a link of F16 and a detailed unit count of crashes each year of the first 20 years of flight---please someone if they can forward them to Chi---thanks.