Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[fatman17]

Quote of the Day

I have flown in just about everything, with all kinds of pilots in all parts of the world -- British, French, Pakistani, Iranian, Japanese, Chinese -- and there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between any of them except for one unchanging, certain fact: the best, most skillful pilot has the most experience.

-- Chuck Yeager

 

[Quwa]

@Bratva @Windjammer

I was informed that not all of the F-16s have gone through MLU. Can you please confirm that. If not, why?

The only ones that haven't to my knowledge are the ones we got from Jordan.

 

[gambit]

Quote of the Day

I have flown in just about everything, with all kinds of pilots in all parts of the world -- British, French, Pakistani, Iranian, Japanese, Chinese -- and there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between any of them except for one unchanging, certain fact: the best, most skillful pilot has the most experience.

-- Chuck Yeager

Experience is a double edged sword and what the good general did not say, probably because it is assumed, is that experience without examination, from self and from without, is a disaster.

There are two man-machine pairings that offers a person the quickest way to entrenched bad habits: man and motorcycle and man and airplane.

Either way, you WILL develop bad habits. The top motorcycle racers and the most skillful pilots are the ones who are most introspective about their skills. Confidence does not mean no doubts. In fact, true confidence is about knowing one's doubts and weaknesses and be able to overcome them. An action may give a pilot the result he want, but does that mean that action cannot be made more efficient and faster ? Usually, the action, whether it a specific maneuver or how to reconfigure the radar from environment to environment or how to land in a cross wind, can always be performed more efficiently, meaning using less effort to get the same result as before.

When people use the word 'fighter', they tossed aside the most important item that make that aircraft a fighter -- the pilot. Different platforms have different flight characteristics that will manifest themselves only in stressful flights. One hundred hrs of flying against the same fighter will not equal, in terms of gained skills and combat insights, of 50 hrs against different fighters. And those 50 hrs will expose every bad habits a pilot has. That means the pilot who have the 50 hrs is the more experienced than the pilot who have the 100 hrs.

The most skillful pilots in the wing, regardless of nationality, are always the ones who are the most self critical beyond what the classroom taught. They are always aware that an action repeated can unwittingly lay the ground for a bad habit, and that the only way to discover if one have developed a bad habit is to be challenged to the point where said action can no longer serve one's purpose. So generally speaking, if experience can develop and entrench bad habits, then only experience can break those bad habits and create good ones.

 

[Windjammer]

In for a penny, in for a pound, the source @ alamy are selling prints of this, PAF F-16 releasing flares on 6 September 2015 Defence Day Show, for £15.00 a copy.

 

[fatman17]

F-16 Fighting Falcon NewsF-16V Takes Flight

October 21, 2015 (by John Losinger) - Lockheed Martin successfully completed the maiden flight of the F-16V, the latest and most advanced F-16 on the market.

The maiden flight of the F-16V (Former RoCAF F-16A block 20 #93702), the latest version of the F-16 was completed on October 16, 2015. The flight marked the first time an F-16 has flown with Northrop Grumman’s advanced APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array Scalable Agile Beam Radar. [Photo by Randy Crites]

The October 16 flight marks the first time an F-16 has flown with Northrop Grumman’s advanced APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR), which will deliver a quantum leap in capability for the venerable F-16.

The F-16V “Viper” advanced avionics configuration also includes a new cockpit Center Pedestal Display, a modernized mission computer, a high-capacity Ethernet data bus, and several other missions systems enhancements that collectively add significant combat capabilities to address the dynamic threat environments emerging in the coming decades.

“This flight marks a historic milestone in the evolution of the F-16,” said Rod McLean, vice president and general manager of Lockheed Martin’s F-16/F-22 Integrated Fighter Group. “The new F-16V configuration includes numerous enhancements designed to keep the F-16 at the forefront of international security, strengthening its position as the world’s foremost combat-proven 4th Generation fighter aircraft.”

The F-16V, an option for both new production F-16s and F-16 upgrades, is the next generation configuration that leverages a common worldwide sustainment infrastructure and provides significant capability improvements to the world’s most affordable, combat-proven multi-role fighter.

Northrop Grumman’s APG-83 SABR AESA fire control radar provides 5th Generation air-to-air and air-to-ground radar capability. Northrop Grumman also provides AESA radars for the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II.


Courtesy of Lockheed Martin Corporation

Related articles:Lockheed Martin tries to get Indonesia interested in the F-16V (2015-10-07)Scalable Agile Beam Radar brings advanced capabilities to F-16 FleetLockheed Martin selects Northrop Grumman's SABR for the F-16 AESA Radar Upgrade Program (2013-07-31)Raytheon wins RoKAF F-16 radar upgrade competition (2013-04-11)Lockheed Martin awarded upgrade contract for 145 RoCAF F-16s (2012-10-01)F-16 Fighting Falcon news archive
Forum discussion:First F-16V flight

 

[keneth32]

Turkey that has got license to produce these fighter aircraft has agreed to assist Pakistan in building a setup to overhaul these aircraft purchased from the United States at Kamra Aeronautical Complex. This facility would go a long way in improving the country's air defence capability and Pakistan would come in a position to overhaul its F-16 fleet like Miraj and F-7. Moreover, it will be able to bring in action its obsolete F-16 aircraft that could not be overhauled due to a lack of this facility in Pakistan. Earlier Pakistan could not afford to send the fighter jets to the United States for overhauls at a very high cost.

Due to lack of maintenance and overhauls of these costly and most modern fighters Pakistan had ground a number of its aircraft. Pakistan Air Force (PAF) received eighteen overhauled and refurbished F-16 from USA by this year under the EAD programme.[/QUOTE]

yes but the relation between pakistan and russia are getting better, russia cannot afford to lose chines market and we together with the chines offer double the scope of trade that india offers! i had these figures with me but cannot find them at the moment but i will post them as i find them again, but the thing was that totall potential russian exports to china and pakistan was more than two times the potential of India. so if china support us in this venture it wonmt be difficult.

Turkey that has got license to produce these fighter aircraft has agreed to assist Pakistan in building a setup to overhaul these aircraft purchased from the United States at Kamra Aeronautical Complex. This facility would go a long way in improving the country's air defence capability and Pakistan would come in a position to overhaul its F-16 fleet like Miraj and F-7. Moreover, it will be able to bring in action its obsolete F-16 aircraft that could not be overhauled due to a lack of this facility in Pakistan. Earlier Pakistan could not afford to send the fighter jets to the United States for overhauls at a very high cost.

Due to lack of maintenance and overhauls of these costly and most modern fighters Pakistan had ground a number of its aircraft. Pakistan Air Force (PAF) received eighteen overhauled and refurbished F-16 from USA by this year under the EAD programme.

[/QUOTE]

Experience is a double edged sword and what the good general did not say, probably because it is assumed, is that experience without examination, from self and from without, is a disaster.

There are two man-machine pairings that offers a person the quickest way to entrenched bad habits: man and motorcycle and man and airplane.

Either way, you WILL develop bad habits. The top motorcycle racers and the most skillful pilots are the ones who are most introspective about their skills. Confidence does not mean no doubts. In fact, true confidence is about knowing one's doubts and weaknesses and be able to overcome them. An action may give a pilot the result he want, but does that mean that action cannot be made more efficient and faster ? Usually, the action, whether it a specific maneuver or how to reconfigure the radar from environment to environment or how to land in a cross wind, can always be performed more efficiently, meaning using less effort to get the same result as before.

When people use the word 'fighter', they tossed aside the most important item that make that aircraft a fighter -- the pilot. Different platforms have different flight characteristics that will manifest themselves only in stressful flights. One hundred hrs of flying against the same fighter will not equal, in terms of gained skills and combat insights, of 50 hrs against different fighters. And those 50 hrs will expose every bad habits a pilot has. That means the pilot who have the 50 hrs is the more experienced than the pilot who have the 100 hrs.

The most skillful pilots in the wing, regardless of nationality, are always the ones who are the most self critical beyond what the classroom taught. They are always aware that an action repeated can unwittingly lay the ground for a bad habit, and that the only way to discover if one have developed a bad habit is to be challenged to the point where said action can no longer serve one's purpose. So generally speaking, if experience can develop and entrench bad habits, then only experience can break those bad habits and create good ones.

yes but the relation between pakistan and russia are getting better, russia cannot afford to lose chines market and we together with the chines offer double the scope of trade that india offers! i had these figures with me but cannot find them at the moment but i will post them as i find them again, but the thing was that totall potential russian exports to china and pakistan was more than two times the potential of India. so if china support us in this venture it wonmt be difficult.

Source: Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2 | Page 620

Quote of the Day

I have flown in just about everything, with all kinds of pilots in all parts of the world -- British, French, Pakistani, Iranian, Japanese, Chinese -- and there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between any of them except for one unchanging, certain fact: the best, most skillful pilot has the most experience.

-- Chuck Yeager

Turkey that has got license to produce these fighter aircraft has agreed to assist Pakistan in building a setup to overhaul these aircraft purchased from the United States at Kamra Aeronautical Complex. This facility would go a long way in improving the country's air defence capability and Pakistan would come in a position to overhaul its F-16 fleet like Miraj and F-7. Moreover, it will be able to bring in action its obsolete F-16 aircraft that could not be overhauled due to a lack of this facility in Pakistan. Earlier Pakistan could not afford to send the fighter jets to the United States for overhauls at a very high cost.

Source: Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2 | Page 620

Turkey that has got license to produce these fighter aircraft has agreTurkey that has got license to produce these fighter aircraft has agreed to assist Pakistan in building a setup to overhaul these aircraft purchased from the United States at Kamra Aeronautical Complex. This facility would go a long way in improving the country's air defence capability and Pakistan would come in a position to overhaul its F-16 fleet like Miraj and F-7. Moreover, it will be able to bring in action its obsolete F-16 aircraft that could not be overhauled due to a lack of this facility in Pakistan. Earlier Pakistan could not afford to send the fighter jets to the United States for overhauls at a very high cost.

Source: Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2 | Page 620
ed to assist Pakistan in building a setup to overhaul these aircraft purchased from the United States at Kamra Aeronautical Complex. This facility would go a long way in improving the country's air defence capability and Pakistan would come in a position to overhaul its F-16 fleet like Miraj and F-7. Moreover, it will be able to bring in action its obsolete F-16 aircraft that could not be overhauled due to a lack of this facility in Pakistan. Earlier Pakistan could not afford to send the fighter jets to the United States for overhauls at a very high cost.

Due to lack of maintenance and overhauls of these costly and most modern fighters Pakistan had ground a number of its aircraft. Pakistan Air Force (PAF) received eighteen overhauled and refurbished F-16 from USA by this year under the EAD programme.

[/QUOTE]


yes but the relation between pakistan and russia are getting better, russia cannot afford to lose chines market and we together with the chines offer double the scope of trade that india offers! i had these figures with me but cannot find them at the moment but i will post them as i find them again, but the thing was that totall potential russian exports to china and pakistan was more than two times the potential of India. so if china support us in this venture it wonmt be difficult.

Source: Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2 | Page 620


Turkey that has got license to produce these fighter aircraft has agreed to assist Pakistan in building a setup to overhaul these aircraft purchased from the United States at Kamra Aeronautical Complex. This facility would go a long way in improving the country's air defence capability and Pakistan would come in a position to overhaul its F-16 fleet like Miraj and F-7. Moreover, it will be able to bring in action its obsolete F-16 aircraft that could not be overhauled due to a lack of this facility in Pakistan. Earlier Pakistan could not afford to send the fighter jets to the United States for overhauls at a very high cost.

Source: Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2 | Page 620[/QUOTE]

 

[Sinnerman108]

On a related note, the following:

Critique of Pure Reason - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Before Kant, it was generally held that truths of reason must be analytic, meaning that what is stated in the predicate must already be present in the subject (for example, "An intelligent man is intelligent" or "An intelligent man is a man"). In either case, the judgment is analytic because it is ascertained by analyzing the subject. It was thought that all truths of reason, or necessary truths, are of this kind: that in all of them there is a predicate that is only part of the subject of which it is asserted. If this were so, attempting to deny anything that could be known a priori (for example, "An intelligent man is not intelligent" or "An intelligent man is not a man") would involve a contradiction. It was therefore thought that the law of contradiction is sufficient to establish all a priori knowledge.

Here's another way to look at Experience.
It is the result of several experiments that we do, and our mind learns.
The longer the experience, the greater is the body of rules that a new paradigm has to go through before being responded to.

i.e The greater the experience, the higher will be the inertia to react.

Experience is a double edged sword and what the good general did not say, probably because it is assumed, is that experience without examination, from self and from without, is a disaster.

There are two man-machine pairings that offers a person the quickest way to entrenched bad habits: man and motorcycle and man and airplane.

Either way, you WILL develop bad habits. The top motorcycle racers and the most skillful pilots are the ones who are most introspective about their skills. Confidence does not mean no doubts. In fact, true confidence is about knowing one's doubts and weaknesses and be able to overcome them. An action may give a pilot the result he want, but does that mean that action cannot be made more efficient and faster ? Usually, the action, whether it a specific maneuver or how to reconfigure the radar from environment to environment or how to land in a cross wind, can always be performed more efficiently, meaning using less effort to get the same result as before.

When people use the word 'fighter', they tossed aside the most important item that make that aircraft a fighter -- the pilot. Different platforms have different flight characteristics that will manifest themselves only in stressful flights. One hundred hrs of flying against the same fighter will not equal, in terms of gained skills and combat insights, of 50 hrs against different fighters. And those 50 hrs will expose every bad habits a pilot has. That means the pilot who have the 50 hrs is the more experienced than the pilot who have the 100 hrs.

The most skillful pilots in the wing, regardless of nationality, are always the ones who are the most self critical beyond what the classroom taught. They are always aware that an action repeated can unwittingly lay the ground for a bad habit, and that the only way to discover if one have developed a bad habit is to be challenged to the point where said action can no longer serve one's purpose. So generally speaking, if experience can develop and entrench bad habits, then only experience can break those bad habits and create good ones.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[gambit]

i.e The greater the experience, the higher will be the inertia to react.

The USAF is always searching for ways to introduce new ideas that will challenge the current modes of thoughts before they becomes 'conventional wisdom', which becomes 'institutional inertia'.

 

[nomi007]

paf f-16 using
tri racket

 

[fatman17]

Viper Driver Flying Hours
Sqn.Ldr. Sajjad "Patriot" Yousafzai


Viper Driver

Name
Sqn.Ldr.Sajjad "Patriot" Yousafzai
Country
Pakistan
Unit
9th squadron "Griffins"Flying F-16s from 2009 until 2015
Viper Hours1000 F-16 Flying Hours1,000 Hours#2423 on the 1K list
Unit 9th squadron "Griffins"
Flying Hours on other aircraft
AT-38 TalonHours100

 

[hassan1]

 

[Hammad ur Rehman]

In my opinion Pakistan should reject the offer of 8 F-16s unless the quantity is raised to full squadron strength of 18 with AESA radars & AESA upgrade of Block 52s while there avionics going to the yet to be released 12-14 Block 15 OCU from the USN.

View attachment 272567

 

[nomi007]

In my opinion Pakistan should reject the offer of 8 F-16s unless the quantity is raised to full squadron strength of 18 with AESA radars & AESA upgrade of Block 52s while there avionics going to the yet to be released 12-14 Block 15 OCU from the USN.

muft masvare ka sukaria
sukar karo
8 aur f-16s mil rahe hain

 

[A2Z]

In 1999, clinton offered Pakistan grippen for not doing nuclear tests.

Dude we conducted nuclear tests in 1998. How come Clinton offered us Gripens in 1999 and ask for not conducting the tests that had already been done?