Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Arsalan]

Arsalan
Even if we go with your strategy, By the indicators available, Thunder in low role, and the high role(FC20) not delivered till 2015. leaves us a major gap in case the Bl52s dont come. The current F16s are optimzed for low roles again. So we have a hiatus which will need to be covered much earlier. If Bl52s come, we dont have any worries as we can order FC20s as they mature. Either M2Ks or Rafale would be the only candidate to fill this gap quickly, the former more so than the latter. Or we look East ahgain towardsJ11s.
I doubt if there is another option if we dont get Bl52s.
My 2 paisas worth.
Araz

first of all sir, accept my congratulations on being promoted on the forum! keep it going!!
secondly i really appreciate as you have very rightly analyzed the situation. i have to agree on this.
but sir dont you think rafale will be a bit too expensive and also that J11 wont be comming due to a hell of problems that we have already discussed!
what you have described seem to be the real situation but i am afraid we wont be having an easy way out!

regards!

 

[Patriot]

I agree, the situation will be very bad if we don't get F-16's...because we will be in very bad position for at least 5-6 years and India might exploit it in name of Surgical Strikes..

 

[SBD-3]

I agree, the situation will be very bad if we don't get F-16's...because we will be in very bad position for at least 5-6 years and India might exploit it in name of Surgical Strikes..

I think PAF should have a fallback option

 

[fatman17]

I think PAF should have a fallback option

fallback is chinese equipment and then surplus mirages!

 

[PAFAce]

You know, in the next few years, a lot of F-16/F-18s are about to become available (mostly to be replaced by 4.5th Gen aircraft). I will try to compile a list of countries that will be retiring parts of their F-16 fleets in large numbers. I just think that it would be worthwhile to look into these as possible acquisitions, since the F-16 was always meant to be a numbers fighter. Who knows, we might get the kind of deal we got with the Mirages, it would be a huge shot in the arm for the PAF, for sure.

It's certainly going to be more economical than acquiring J-11s, which so many on this forum seem to think is vital for PAF survival.

 

[fatman17]

You know, in the next few years, a lot of F-16/F-18s are about to become available (mostly to be replaced by 4.5th Gen aircraft). I will try to compile a list of countries that will be retiring parts of their F-16 fleets in large numbers. I just think that it would be worthwhile to look into these as possible acquisitions, since the F-16 was always meant to be a numbers fighter. Who knows, we might get the kind of deal we got with the Mirages, it would be a huge shot in the arm for the PAF, for sure.

It's certainly going to be more economical than acquiring J-11s, which so many on this forum seem to think is vital for PAF survival.

320 F-16s are parked in Arizona !!!

 

[Patriot]

You know, in the next few years, a lot of F-16/F-18s are about to become available (mostly to be replaced by 4.5th Gen aircraft). I will try to compile a list of countries that will be retiring parts of their F-16 fleets in large numbers. I just think that it would be worthwhile to look into these as possible acquisitions, since the F-16 was always meant to be a numbers fighter. Who knows, we might get the kind of deal we got with the Mirages, it would be a huge shot in the arm for the PAF, for sure.

It's certainly going to be more economical than acquiring J-11s, which so many on this forum seem to think is vital for PAF survival.

Purchasing any US Air Craft requires US approval which i highly doubt that US will give..

 

[sancho]

You know, in the next few years, a lot of F-16/F-18s are about to become available (mostly to be replaced by 4.5th Gen aircraft). I will try to compile a list of countries that will be retiring parts of their F-16 fleets in large numbers. I just think that it would be worthwhile to look into these as possible acquisitions, since the F-16 was always meant to be a numbers fighter. Who knows, we might get the kind of deal we got with the Mirages, it would be a huge shot in the arm for the PAF, for sure.

It's certainly going to be more economical than acquiring J-11s, which so many on this forum seem to think is vital for PAF survival.

But those F16/F18 are older blocks, do you think they will be usful for PAF?

 

[fatman17]

But those F16/F18 are older blocks, do you think they will be usful for PAF?

just upgrade them!

 

[Tempest II]

just upgrade them!

I thought the idea was to keep away from relying on the US because they can AND WILL embargo you when you need the weapons most. … … Besides Pakistan helping them fighting Al Qaeda (5 to 10 years maybe), it seems the US might be interested in working with India in the longer term for economic reasons. … ??? … … i.e. trying to sell them more advanced F-16s and giving them nuclear technology be it for peaceful purposes. ???

 

[PAFAce]

But those F16/F18 are older blocks, do you think they will be usful for PAF?

They could be made useful.

just upgrade them!

Correct. I honestly believe we did a great job with our second-hand Mirages. One man's junk is another man's treasure. Also, imagine if we could develop the level of expertise in F-16 refurbishment that we did with our Mirages. In fact, I believe we could tap into Turkey's F-16 expertise and really work wonders.

Turkey is another country that will be retiring top-notch F-16s soon enough. They would be more than willing to sell to Pakistan, I believe.

 

[mean_bird]

The fundamental question is : How much more life do these retiring F-16s have?

If you need to undergo MLU and structural upgrade, these birds might not be available before the tentative date for our FC-20s. The second important question is : How much will they cost assuming they are available?

Both these are critical questions that , I feel, might go against buying second-hand F-16s. Ofcouse, there could be an exceptional offer out there which we should be looking out for but in general, I have little hopes in this.

 

[araz]

You know, in the next few years, a lot of F-16/F-18s are about to become available (mostly to be replaced by 4.5th Gen aircraft). I will try to compile a list of countries that will be retiring parts of their F-16 fleets in large numbers. I just think that it would be worthwhile to look into these as possible acquisitions, since the F-16 was always meant to be a numbers fighter. Who knows, we might get the kind of deal we got with the Mirages, it would be a huge shot in the arm for the PAF, for sure.

It's certainly going to be more economical than acquiring J-11s, which so many on this forum seem to think is vital for PAF survival.

We have to wait and see. I think there are a few problems which PAF is trying to overcome. The US is law unto itself. So we either wait and see and if we get our new planes, then PAF will probably go up to its full capability of 110 or so F16 in its inventry. If there is a problem then we have to look else where. I don't think anybody has the answers to what happens in the future, although MurdK Saheb has maintained all along that we will not be getting them. The next yr will be crucial.
Arsalan regarding Rafale, I have a favourite dream where we liase with UAE and Kuwait and set up servicing services in PAkistan and do a joint deal with all 3 for a large number of planes. Initially it might be expensive but it will even out in the long term. We need a couple of Squadrons of good hi end planes and it is anyoes guess as to what PAF can get out of the french in these desperate times. However this could we ll remain a dream if PAF finds something of equivalent quality from the Chinese and equips it with some Western toys
WaSalam
Araz

 

[araz]

can anyone please tell me which radars,engines and missiles
are we recieving with our MLU upgraded f-16s

Engines remain the same
APG69V8??
AMRAAM C5
If you read this thread from the beginning Sir Blain has posted the details of all the goodies we will get.It is worth reading this thread if you are interested in F16s. there is a lot of information on it.
Araz

 

[hj786]

Correct. I honestly believe we did a great job with our second-hand Mirages. One man's junk is another man's treasure. Also, imagine if we could develop the level of expertise in F-16 refurbishment that we did with our Mirages. In fact, I believe we could tap into Turkey's F-16 expertise and really work wonders.

I agree, IMO the PAF's upgraded Mirage III/V are fantastic jets if you take into account the alternatives available to the PAF at the time and I hope they stay on for as long as possible. But I'd like to think the PAF have gone past the F-16 era. The Mirage III served PAF well ever since its induction in the late 1960s; apart from the 1980s, the F-16 is a different story.
I really don't think we'll ever see an F-16 Rebuild Factory, it would require so much support from the US just for the electronics, never mind the airframe.