Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[blain2]

On the issue of the subs, its essentially the responsibility of the PN chief to ensure that they only induct U-214s. Based on what is being said and heard, the CJSC is also on board but then again it just depends on how Zardari and team fineness this situation.

Although I think the U-214s on merit are a better platform, both suppliers I.E. Germans and French are suspect in terms of reliability of supplies. Although where the French make great hardware, I think the Germans make it even better.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

PAF looked all over for older F-16s with a good part of airframe life left and found very few. This is the reason that most of the airframes sitting at AMARC in Az were not purchased by the PAF. The structural life of the aircraft is just as important as the avionics specially when the PAF plans to fly the F-16 fleet until 2030 or so. Given the state of Pakistani economy and the Mirage legacy, first one came 50 years ago and we are still flying them, I am sure that the poor PAF blokes will be flying the Viper even beyond the 2030 timeframe.

sit that is a very bad news because in indo-pak air warfare regards
numbers do matters

 

[SBD-3]

PAF looked all over for older F-16s with a good part of airframe life left and found very few. This is the reason that most of the airframes sitting at AMARC in Az were not purchased by the PAF. The structural life of the aircraft is just as important as the avionics specially when the PAF plans to fly the F-16 fleet until 2030 or so. Given the state of Pakistani economy and the Mirage legacy, first one came 50 years ago and we are still flying them, I am sure that the poor PAF blokes will be flying the Viper even beyond the 2030 timeframe.

2030! No Way! PAF will definitly look for change after 2019.We might see Twin Engines.or might even JXX you never know 2030 is a long long time it takes the world of today is so sensitive that we can not even predict about tomorrow do we?.IMHO by 2030 we will have Thunders Getting phazed out FC-20 as low end and a possible new pakistani platform with JXX forming the high end

 

[Arsalan]

Hi Paface,

The news about cancelling the german sub deal and going for french.

sir i guess Mr.Hasnain is right. i have also watched the news and even the part of debate in parliment about the issue. all it stated was that a parlimentarina demanded in-camera briefing about why is the deal being delayed and that he was concerned about the rumaors of going for french subs and wanted the members to be briefed about the issue by the cheif of naval staff!

i dont think PN will walk out of the deal as all the was joined wiht turkish deal and ws going to do lot o good to pn and Pakistan. i hope mr.Z can give up some of his sahre from the military deal and allow pakistan to go for what is beeter from them either it be U214 or a french sub!!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

2030! No Way! PAF will definitly look for change after 2019.We might see Twin Engines.or might even JXX you never know 2030 is a long long time it takes the world of today is so sensitive that we can not even predict about tomorrow do we?.IMHO by 2030 we will have Thunders Getting phazed out FC-20 as low end and a possible new pakistani platform with JXX forming the high end

now this get me a bit confused!
are you stating that by 2030 the JF will be phased out or the FC 20 will go! i bet this wont happen!

i mean we have not spend lots of money on platforms that will be phased out in just 15 -20 ears! yes upgradations and new blocks will surely come in but these planes are here to stay for long dude! we have operated the second habd mirage and F16 for decedes so how come a new jet phased out in such short period of there induction!
i seriously doubt it! i hope you understand!

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

now this get me a bit confused!
are you stating that by 2030 the JF will be phased out or the FC 20 will go! i bet this wont happen!

i mean we have not spend lots of money on platforms that will be phased out in just 15 -20 ears! yes upgradations and new blocks will surely come in but these planes are here to stay for long dude! we have operated the second habd mirage and F16 for decedes so how come a new jet phased out in such short period of there induction!
i seriously doubt it! i hope you understand!

regards!

agreed but at that time the tech race wasent that fast as it is today we used mirages and falcons because there wasn't much on offer comparable to this in export market now look at the choices.when one has the monopoly like US and Russia had enjoyed in past, it is obvious that push for improvement is not that much.Look at now the contenders in 4.5th gen
J-11B
J-10B
JAS-30
EF2000
Rafael
Falcons
Mig-35
Su-30
Su-35
JF
and not to forget
Super hornets
and Eagles
look at the fighters on offer have been multiplied
so obviously the push for improvements have manifolded so dont expect the process to slow down now rapid changes will take place in AC industry 2030 is looooooooooooooooooong loooooooooooooooong way to think my friend.I wonder what the world would have at that time

 

[ironman]

Some points to note..

Pakistan Upgrades its F-16s ​

By Prasun K. Sengupta

Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc (TAI) recently succeeded in bagging a USD 75 million combat aircraft modernisation contract from Pakistan under which a total of 42 Lockheed Martin-built F-16A/Bs belonging to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will be upgraded at TAI’s facilities in 46 months starting from October 2010. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) regarding the start of work on the PAF F-16 Modernisation Programme was signed between TAI and the PAF during the IDEAS Defence Exhibition in September 2006 in Karachi, Pakistan.

Being invited to the international bid for the PAF’s F-16 Modernisation Programme, TAI, among other European competitors, was announced as the main contractor of the programme following the final evaluation by PAF authorities in July 2008. Following contractual negotiations, which started in 2009 between TAI and Pakistani authorities, and the subsequent mutual agreement, the contract was signed between TAI and Pakistan’s ministry of defence production on June 29 at a ceremony held in Rawalpindi. In 2006, as a result of an earlier bidding process, TAI, which had signed an agreement with the Royal Jordanian Air Force for the modernisation of its F-16A/Bs, had successfully completed the programme with the delivery of the last aircraft last April.


The PAF presently operates 46 F-16A/Bs of which 32 remain from the original 40 aircraft that Pakistan bought in the early Eighties. Since 2005, the USAF has transferred 14 Excess Defense Article (EDA) F-16A/Bs to Pakistan. The current Pakistan F-16 procurement programme is composed of three Letters of Offer and Acceptance (LOA). The first LOA providing for the production of 18 F-16C/D Block 52 aircraft is underway: four aircraft will be ready in June 2010; four aircraft in August 2010; five aircraft in October 2010; four aircraft in Dec 2010; and, one aircraft in December 2011.

The second LOA provides for munitions and includes: 500 Raytheon AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM); 750 Mark 84 2,000lb General Purpose bombs; 700 BLU-109 2,000lb Penetrator bombs; 500 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) tail kits; 1,600 Enhanced Guided Bomb Unit (EGBU) kits; and assorted bomb fuzes and support equipment. These weapons will be available for delivery to Pakistan beginning in June 2010.

The third LOA provides for the Mid-Life Update (MLU) of their current fleet of 46 aircraft: four of these aircraft are currently in Fort Worth undergoing Trial Verification Installation, which is part of the mid-life upgrade (MLU) programme. Under the MLU LOA, Pakistan is procuring Falcon STAR structural upgrade kits for the 32 original F-16A/B aircraft and 35 MLU avionics upgrade kits for the current fleet (including three of the recently transferred EDA aircraft). There is an option on the contract to procure 11 additional MLU avionics upgrade kits for the remaining 11 aircraft. Pakistan has not yet exercised this option, but plans to do so at a future date.

 

[Arsalan]

Some points to note..

Pakistan Upgrades its F-16s ​

By Prasun K. Sengupta

Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc (TAI) recently succeeded in bagging a USD 75 million combat aircraft modernisation contract from Pakistan under which a total of 42 Lockheed Martin-built F-16A/Bs belonging to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will be upgraded at TAI’s facilities in 46 months starting from October 2010. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) regarding the start of work on the PAF F-16 Modernisation Programme was signed between TAI and the PAF during the IDEAS Defence Exhibition in September 2006 in Karachi, Pakistan.

Being invited to the international bid for the PAF’s F-16 Modernisation Programme, TAI, among other European competitors, was announced as the main contractor of the programme following the final evaluation by PAF authorities in July 2008. Following contractual negotiations, which started in 2009 between TAI and Pakistani authorities, and the subsequent mutual agreement, the contract was signed between TAI and Pakistan’s ministry of defence production on June 29 at a ceremony held in Rawalpindi. In 2006, as a result of an earlier bidding process, TAI, which had signed an agreement with the Royal Jordanian Air Force for the modernisation of its F-16A/Bs, had successfully completed the programme with the delivery of the last aircraft last April.


The PAF presently operates 46 F-16A/Bs of which 32 remain from the original 40 aircraft that Pakistan bought in the early Eighties. Since 2005, the USAF has transferred 14 Excess Defense Article (EDA) F-16A/Bs to Pakistan. The current Pakistan F-16 procurement programme is composed of three Letters of Offer and Acceptance (LOA). The first LOA providing for the production of 18 F-16C/D Block 52 aircraft is underway: four aircraft will be ready in June 2010; four aircraft in August 2010; five aircraft in October 2010; four aircraft in Dec 2010; and, one aircraft in December 2011.

The second LOA provides for munitions and includes: 500 Raytheon AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM); 750 Mark 84 2,000lb General Purpose bombs; 700 BLU-109 2,000lb Penetrator bombs; 500 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) tail kits; 1,600 Enhanced Guided Bomb Unit (EGBU) kits; and assorted bomb fuzes and support equipment. These weapons will be available for delivery to Pakistan beginning in June 2010.

The third LOA provides for the Mid-Life Update (MLU) of their current fleet of 46 aircraft: four of these aircraft are currently in Fort Worth undergoing Trial Verification Installation, which is part of the mid-life upgrade (MLU) programme. Under the MLU LOA, Pakistan is procuring Falcon STAR structural upgrade kits for the 32 original F-16A/B aircraft and 35 MLU avionics upgrade kits for the current fleet (including three of the recently transferred EDA aircraft). There is an option on the contract to procure 11 additional MLU avionics upgrade kits for the remaining 11 aircraft. Pakistan has not yet exercised this option, but plans to do so at a future date.

a nice composite pack of information, thanks!
it would have helped more if you could have provided the link to the news!

regards!

 

[blain2]

agreed but at that time the tech race wasent that fast as it is today we used mirages and falcons because there wasn't much on offer comparable to this in export market now look at the choices.when one has the monopoly like US and Russia had enjoyed in past, it is obvious that push for improvement is not that much.Look at now the contenders in 4.5th gen
J-11B
J-10B
JAS-30
EF2000
Rafael
Falcons
Mig-35
Su-30
Su-35
JF
and not to forget
Super hornets
and Eagles
look at the fighters on offer have been multiplied
so obviously the push for improvements have manifolded so dont expect the process to slow down now rapid changes will take place in AC industry 2030 is looooooooooooooooooong loooooooooooooooong way to think my friend.I wonder what the world would have at that time

Hasnain,

If the economy stays the way it is, then I can bet that F-16s will stay even after 2030. If the economy improves then all bets are off.

 

[fatman17]

PAF is looking to have by 2015, 150 JF-17s, 60 F-16s, 40 FC-20s and 50 F-7PGs if all the plans and budget committments are on-time. the period between 2013-15 is going to be very critical not to mention exciting for the PAF. the Mirages, F-7Ps and A-5s will be part of PAF history only. its a possibility that the Mirage ROSE III a/c may still be flying but only if the time-lines mentioned above are not met!

 

[SBD-3]

PAF is looking to have by 2015, 150 JF-17s, 60 F-16s, 40 FC-20s and 50 F-7PGs if all the plans and budget committments are on-time. the period between 2013-15 is going to be very critical not to mention exciting for the PAF. the Mirages, F-7Ps and A-5s will be part of PAF history only. its a possibility that the Mirage ROSE III a/c may still be flying but only if the time-lines mentioned above are not met!

Mirages and PGs will be nomore once thunder is inducted.however mirrages will be replaced at last after PGs.the reason for PAF to be looking at two seater Thuder seems to be a supportive arguments as two seaters are considered better for dedicated missions and strike rolls but till 2015 i think thunder wouldhave replaced both considering the production speed

 

[araz]

2030! No Way! PAF will definitly look for change after 2019.We might see Twin Engines.or might even JXX you never know 2030 is a long long time it takes the world of today is so sensitive that we can not even predict about tomorrow do we?.IMHO by 2030 we will have Thunders Getting phazed out FC-20 as low end and a possible new pakistani platform with JXX forming the high end

marey Bhai
Be realistic. In the current economic down turn where it will take another 2-3 yrs for the developed nations to turn themselves around, it will take an inefficient pakistan even longer. In these circumstances, where do you think the money to chenge platforms is going to come from? The chances are that we will be seeing a fair amount of our current inventary still in use by 2019.and that will include Mirages, and even A5s.
Araz
Araz

 

[IceCold]

PAF is looking to have by 2015, 150 JF-17s, 60 F-16s, 40 FC-20s and 50 F-7PGs if all the plans and budget committments are on-time. the period between 2013-15 is going to be very critical not to mention exciting for the PAF. the Mirages, F-7Ps and A-5s will be part of PAF history only. its a possibility that the Mirage ROSE III a/c may still be flying but only if the time-lines mentioned above are not met!

Just one question sir what are we planning to do with F-7pgs by 2015 when all of the modern air warfare will depend upon two things BVR and stealth.

 

[fatman17]

Just one question sir what are we planning to do with F-7pgs by 2015 when all of the modern air warfare will depend upon two things BVR and stealth.

when the JF-17 numbers go beyond 150, the F-7PGs will be retired!

 

[fatman17]

Mirages and PGs will be nomore once thunder is inducted.however mirrages will be replaced at last after PGs.the reason for PAF to be looking at two seater Thuder seems to be a supportive arguments as two seaters are considered better for dedicated missions and strike rolls but till 2015 i think thunder wouldhave replaced both considering the production speed

i guess u know more than the PAF, as the numbers I have quoted are from the new PAF book!