Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Arsalan]

what makes us think the M2K is superior to the F-16 - if it were, then a lot of airforces around the world would be jumping for it, which is not the case - keep the politics aside and compare please!

for sure the F16 are a better platform compared to the mirages but think about the ones that we have (blk 15), perhaps in our case M2K would have been a better choice.
perhaps the strong point of the M2K is that it will alwas be availabe and there would have been no issues with spare parts!
i guess a more appropiate statement would have been to say that:

M2k would have served PAF better then the F16 is doing!

atleast we would have got them in time and there would have been no set backs coze of spares! perhaps we could have avoided the lost decade.

regards!

 

[jalip]

Hi,

What is superior---is what I have available to me without any strings attached---that is all I have been saying over the time. I am only talking in terms of Pakistan.

If M2k is not flying in as many colors as the F 16 is not for the reason that it is not capable---it is rather the salesmanship of the americans---and american pleasing policies of foreign govts---.

The french are not the best salesmen---the equipment comes in packages that they desire to sell---the americans sells the quipment as the buyer wants it to be---you may buythe package---by the unit or by the dozen---.

The relattionship with france---is also determined by how the americans are dealing with the french at that time.

Now coming down to it---what is the big deal about the present and previous F 16's that pak has---it has an obsolete 80's technology weapons system. The upgrades are a coming---but that is a different story---.

What I am asking is---why are we seeking the best of the best---not everybody marries the 'PROM QUEEN'---what happens to the other girls---they just don't disappear into the haze---as a matter of fact they are the ones who are the caretakers of the future---the prom queen ends with in drugs and divorce---

The same is the case with our pakistani F 16's---we chose the prettiest---didnot realize that the pretty didnot like us.

If pakistan had chosen the M2k in the 80's---the reputation of the mirage would have been at a different pleateau---more countries would have followed the example of pakistan---we would have been assembling / manufacturing most of the m2k in pakistan---and it would have come as no surprise---if pakistan would have partenered france in manufacturing the rafael----the 80's was a very crucial time period for the paf and pak govt---the pak govt failed in understanding the future needs of the paf as did the paf officials tehmsleves---thety went for the HOTTIE and left the old reliable behind.

totally agreed sir with 45 F 16 what u gona do our requirement was more then 100 US can ban any time on the other hand french are more money oriented if in the future if we are going to buy any western plan we should go for mirages
regards

 

[Arsalan]

totally agreed sir with 45 F 16 what u gona do our requirement was more then 100 US can ban any time on the other hand french are more money oriented if in the future if we are going to buy any western plan we should go for mirages
regards

agreed! the choice must be of any french plane! the mirages will be pretty much old platforms by the time we will be going for new platforms! i mean for the time being the policy seems to be " Stick with JF17 and FC20".
in future (somewhere around 2015-2018) the rafale will be a contendar! the mirages may well be gone by then!

regards!

 

[TOPGUN]

Again again i say wait and see wat happens with the f-16's inshallah it might even happen come true! be postive people !

 

[Arsalan]

Again again i say wait and see wat happens with the f-16's inshallah it might even happen come true! be postive people !

that is what the PAF will be doing!
i want to say again, for the time being the concentration is on the FC20 and JF17 as it shouls be, we will be waiting to see what goes on with F16z after the FC and JF systems are mature and if we dont have the F16 then the topic of another high tech plane will come to discussion, on the other habd if we get F16 blk 52 in the mean while, PAF must be fine with them and rest of the fleet of JF and FC foe another decade or so!

regards!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

With Zardari in office, we will never know what happens with him, the french, the arab emirates and qatar. We all might wake up one day and would be surprised to see what may land on the nearby air base.

 

[MZUBAIR]

that is what the PAF will be doing!
i want to say again, for the time being the concentration is on the FC20 and JF17 as it shouls be, we will be waiting to see what goes on with F16z after the FC and JF systems are mature and if we dont have the F16 then the topic of another high tech plane will come to discussion, on the other habd if we get F16 blk 52 in the mean while, PAF must be fine with them and rest of the fleet of JF and FC foe another decade or so!

regards!

I am feeling doubt that we are getting any F-16 in near future.

 

[MZUBAIR]

any french plane! the mirages will be pretty much old platforms by the time we will be going for new platforms! i mean for the time being the policy seems to be " Stick with JF17 and FC20".
in future (somewhere around 2015-2018) the rafale will be a contendar! the mirages may well be gone by then!

regards!

I think PAF should work more on JF-17, between 2015-2018 Refale would not be that attractive........probabily we would be looking for 5th generation fighters

 

[MZUBAIR]

totally agreed sir with 45 F 16 what u gona do our requirement was more then 100 US can ban any time on the other hand french are more money oriented if in the future if we are going to buy any western plan we should go for mirages
regards

Its batter to invest on JF-17 then Mirage.
Mirage is old horse.

New Engine (Hopefully French), New Radar (Kind of AESA), with new weapons (Western) along with some stealthy features will take JF to 4.5th generation, which will make it comapreable to F-16 Block 60.

Besides that 30 to 40 more J-10B can compunsate F-16 quantity.

 

[Arsalan]

I am feeling doubt that we are getting any F-16 in near future.

all i have to say is to refer you to post number 619 by TOPGUN
it was like:

posted by TOPGUN
Again again i say wait and see wat happens with the f-16's inshallah it might even happen come true! be postive people !

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

I think PAF should work more on JF-17, between 2015-2018 Refale would not be that attractive........probabily we would be looking for 5th generation fighters

agreed!
it seems this will be the strategy! keep going on with the JF and FC foe about 5-6 years until you get good with them. then perhaps look for a limited number of high end fighterd to complement the FC20, may it be F16 or rafale! mirages wont be an option then!
even some other chines or even Pak-China project can come up as a contendor!

regards!

 

[araz]

agreed!
it seems this will be the strategy! keep going on with the JF and FC foe about 5-6 years until you get good with them. then perhaps look for a limited number of high end fighterd to complement the FC20, may it be F16 or rafale! mirages wont be an option then!
even some other chines or even Pak-China project can come up as a contendor!

regards!

Arsalan
Even if we go with your strategy, By the indicators available, Thunder in low role, and the high role(FC20) not delivered till 2015. leaves us a major gap in case the Bl52s dont come. The current F16s are optimzed for low roles again. So we have a hiatus which will need to be covered much earlier. If Bl52s come, we dont have any worries as we can order FC20s as they mature. Either M2Ks or Rafale would be the only candidate to fill this gap quickly, the former more so than the latter. Or we look East ahgain towardsJ11s.
I doubt if there is another option if we dont get Bl52s.
My 2 paisas worth.
Araz

 

[IceCold]

Arsalan
Even if we go with your strategy, By the indicators available, Thunder in low role, and the high role(FC20) not delivered till 2015. leaves us a major gap in case the Bl52s dont come. The current F16s are optimzed for low roles again. So we have a hiatus which will need to be covered much earlier. If Bl52s come, we dont have any worries as we can order FC20s as they mature. Either M2Ks or Rafale would be the only candidate to fill this gap quickly, the former more so than the latter. Or we look East ahgain towardsJ11s.
I doubt if there is another option if we dont get Bl52s.
My 2 paisas worth.
Araz

That is exactly the problem sir you just pointed out. I dont understand what in the hell were our military planners thinking? If block-52 gets sanctioned, we are left with a huge gap and the only thing we can rely on will be our JFs and the existing F-16s against MKIs, upgraded mirages, upgraded Mig-29 and by the time we start getting FC-20 i.e is by 2015, Indians will also start getting MRCA not to forget the Pak-FA something we dont seem to be concerned off as of now.
Point is we dont get block-52 as you mentioned, then we are screwed big time thanks to our planners.

 

[SBD-3]

for sure the F16 are a better platform compared to the mirages but think about the ones that we have (blk 15), perhaps in our case M2K would have been a better choice.
perhaps the strong point of the M2K is that it will alwas be availabe and there would have been no issues with spare parts!
i guess a more appropiate statement would have been to say that:



atleast we would have got them in time and there would have been no set backs coze of spares! perhaps we could have avoided the lost decade.

regards!

I think it had one MAJOR advantage over F-16s in PAF service; BVR capability.I can still remember the quote of ACM at kargil conflict

if we would've had a couple of squaderns of Mirrage 2000, situation would have been different

 

[nightrider_saulat]

can anyone please tell me which radars,engines and missiles
are we recieving with our MLU upgraded f-16s