Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[fatman17]

i hope next time paf try to get some technology also for spare parts manufacturing

LM has one of the best supply chains plus with nearly 450 F-16's retired already and parked at D-M in arizona, spares should be least of the problems. in fact PAF has placed an FMS order of US$75m for spares for all its aircraft.

 

[nomi007]

ITT Exelis has received a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) contract from the US Robins Air Force Base for the supply of additional pod-mounted ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare System (AIDEWS) to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).

The jamming pods, delivered under the $54m FMS contract, will be integrated into PAF's fleet of F-16 Fighting Falcon fighter jets.

Exelis Integrated Electronic Warfare Systems business vice-president and general manager Rich Sorelle said the pod-mounted system brings electronic warfare technology to its customers at much lesser cost.

"Since AIDEWS is being adopted by many of our international allies and is based on our modular and scalable EW technology, future upgrade costs are shared and affordable," Sorelle added.

Developed from the ALQ-211 (V) 4 system, AIDEWS provides pilots with situational awareness and protection against radar-based threats, including modern surface-to-air and air-to-air weapon systems.

The (V)9 pod provides digital radar warning, high-power jamming, threat geolocation and situational awareness using line replaceable units (LRUs) interchangeable with internal AIDEWS systems.

The system has been integrated into a wide variety of US and allied defence rotary-wing and fighter aircraft including the NH-90 helicopter, V-22 Osprey, MH-47, MH-60 Black Hawk, F-16 Fighter and several commercial platforms.

Work under the contract will be performed at the company's Electronic Systems division in Clifton, New Jersey, US.

The company was also awarded a $49.09m FMS contract for supply of systems software and support equipment for the ALQ-211(V)9 pods in July 2011.

The package included delivery of 18 pods, four pod shells, two antenna coupler sets, as well as two lab test benches and data systems.

More than 180 AIDEWS systems are currently under contract for six countries as part of the company's FMS programme and, around 140 systems have been delivered along with continuous software support through regular system updates to date.

Image: The AIDEWS pod-mounted system provides pilots with advanced situational awareness and protection against radar-based threats. Photo: ITT Exelis

ITT Exelis to supply additional ALQ-211(V)9 pods to Pakistan - Airforce Technology

 

[fatman17]

old news nomiji

 

[Edevelop]

 

[nomi007]

is this true that paf's f-16 participate in any exercise against ef-2000 in turkey?

The following screenshot comes from a video recorded by the HUD (Head Up Display) of a Eurofighter Typhoon and it is the first (and only) Typhoon HUD capture ever made public.

It shows an F-16 in the wrong place at the wrong time: in front of a high maneuvering plane capable to point its nose when it wants to.

During a dissimilar air combat training (DACT), the “Viper”, in clean configuration and maneuvering under high G-forces, is killed by a Typhoon with a gun shot scored while flying at 8,200 feet, less than 5 degrees AOA (Angle of Attack), Mach 0.46, pulling 1.8G.

According to the source who sent it to me, the rest of the video shows that the Typhoon, after downing the F-16, continues maneuvering vertically, accelerating a bit to climb and descend again for a second shot on the same target.

The video answers to the some articles published in 2011 about claims that Pakistan Air Force’s pilots scored Typhoon kills during DACT taking place in Turkey, during Ex. Anatolian Eagle. According to such reports, Pakistani pilots on exchange with the Turkish Air Force, and flying TuAF F-16s, scored kills against RAF Typhoons in WVR (Within Visual Range) gun contests (even if no evidence was provided to support claims fueling the theory that the of fighter pilot tall story).

Since I don’t think I need to explain once again why DACT WVR is important and why any simulated kill should be taken with grain of salt, let me just add (paraphrasing someone else’s words
Exclusive: F-16 gets killed by Typhoon during air combat training in first Eurofighter HUD capture ever. « The Aviationist

 

[Donatello]

is this true that paf's f-16 participate in any exercise against ef-2000 in turkey?

The following screenshot comes from a video recorded by the HUD (Head Up Display) of a Eurofighter Typhoon and it is the first (and only) Typhoon HUD capture ever made public.

It shows an F-16 in the wrong place at the wrong time: in front of a high maneuvering plane capable to point its nose when it wants to.

During a dissimilar air combat training (DACT), the “Viper”, in clean configuration and maneuvering under high G-forces, is killed by a Typhoon with a gun shot scored while flying at 8,200 feet, less than 5 degrees AOA (Angle of Attack), Mach 0.46, pulling 1.8G.

According to the source who sent it to me, the rest of the video shows that the Typhoon, after downing the F-16, continues maneuvering vertically, accelerating a bit to climb and descend again for a second shot on the same target.

The video answers to the some articles published in 2011 about claims that Pakistan Air Force’s pilots scored Typhoon kills during DACT taking place in Turkey, during Ex. Anatolian Eagle. According to such reports, Pakistani pilots on exchange with the Turkish Air Force, and flying TuAF F-16s, scored kills against RAF Typhoons in WVR (Within Visual Range) gun contests (even if no evidence was provided to support claims fueling the theory that the of fighter pilot tall story).

Since I don’t think I need to explain once again why DACT WVR is important and why any simulated kill should be taken with grain of salt, let me just add (paraphrasing someone else’s words
Exclusive: F-16 gets killed by Typhoon during air combat training in first Eurofighter HUD capture ever. « The Aviationist

If you are in front of Typhoon, Flanker or F-15 with high agility, no matter what plane you are in, you are F***ed.

 

[Sapper]

During a dissimilar air combat training (DACT), the “Viper”, in clean configuration and maneuvering under high G-forces, is killed by a Typhoon with a gun shot scored while flying at 8,200 feet, less than 5 degrees AOA (Angle of Attack), Mach 0.46, pulling 1.8G.

Dear,

This is what you call PAWNED ... going once (0:21) ... going twice (1:33) ... going thrice (1:48) ... SOLD (1:59, guaranteed F16 hud) ...

In my opinion, both are evenly matched, more or less (and same goes for rafale) , and only tactics determining the outcome of the bout.

The current F16 Bl-60 is slightly superior in its Radar, ECM, and Targeting Pod, while both Eurofighter and Rafale have a slight edge in maneuverability (Typhoon/Rafale will upgrade avionics by end of decade). But these differences can quickly vanish if your opponent is better trained, and currently both the Rafale and Eurofighter have extremely high maintenance costs prohibiting extensive training, contrary to F16s which allow pilots to accumulate as much as 2000 ~3000 hours on the platform during their service. That is going to be the biggest difference whenever F16 and Typhoon/Rafale face each other.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[Jango]

Dear,

This is what you call PAWNED ... going once (0:21) ... going twice (1:33) ... going thrice (1:48) ... SOLD (1:59, guaranteed F16 hud) ...

In my opinion, both are evenly matched, more or less (and same goes for rafale) , and only tactics determining the outcome of the bout.

The current F16 Bl-60 is slightly superior in its Radar, ECM, and Targeting Pod, while both Eurofighter and Rafale have a slight edge in maneuverability (Typhoon/Rafale will upgrade avionics by end of decade). But these differences can quickly vanish if your opponent is better trained, and currently both the Rafale and Eurofighter have extremely high maintenance costs prohibiting extensive training, contrary to F16s which allow pilots to accumulate as much as 2000 ~3000 hours on the platform during their service. That is going to be the biggest difference whenever F16 and Typhoon/Rafale face each other.

Regards,
Sapper

UAE has the only Block 60's. So Block 52 might be the better platform to compare i think.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

UAE has the only Block 60's. So Block 52 might be the better platform to compare i think.

Come on man, What's this !!
How come Blk52 become good in any sense to Blk60 .. ? Its all superior F-16 in every field.

 

[Najam Khan]

The video answers to the some articles published in 2011 about claims that Pakistan Air Force’s pilots scored Typhoon kills during DACT taking place in Turkey, during Ex. Anatolian Eagle. According to such reports, Pakistani pilots on exchange with the Turkish Air Force, and flying TuAF F-16s, scored kills against RAF Typhoons in WVR (Within Visual Range) gun contests (even if no evidence was provided to support claims fueling the theory that the of fighter pilot tall story).

Since I don’t think I need to explain once again why DACT WVR is important and why any simulated kill should be taken with grain of salt, let me just add (paraphrasing someone else’s words
Exclusive: F-16 gets killed by Typhoon during air combat training in first Eurofighter HUD capture ever. « The Aviationist

The author is very smart. He hasn't addressed PAF directly, in fact this article more or less advocates to Eurofighter's WVR capabilities (which are no-doubt world class) against the F-16. Now in the light of facts here are some answers to this article.

1. PAF never participated in AE2011. However PAF did participated in ATLC later in same year (but NATO didn't participated in this ATLC held at UAE)

Following link on AE2011 says: franknoort.nl - Frank's Trip Page

Participation of Pakistan and the UAE was expected but those two countries had to cancel at the last moment. UAE Mirages are deployed at NAS Sigonella at this moment for Unified Protector so probably there wasn’t enough capacity to join Anatolian Eagle. Why the PAF did not join was not clear.

2. NATO has documented its participation in multinational exercises here. There is no record of AE-2008-4 but two other exercises AE-2009-2 and AE-2009-4 are listed. PAF participated in them too.

3. During Exercise Spring Flag 2008, Turkey participated with Italian (NATO) Eurofighters. Following is a kill mark photo on Italian Eurofighter.

The dogfight of Italian Eurofighters and PAF F-16s was just one small example that got limelight. There have been lots of more similar encounters in ATLC, AE and FalconTalon Exercises. I wish Alan Warnes or any other writer shed some light on them too. World should see the true potential of our pilots

 

[Jango]

Come on man, What's this !!
How come Blk52 become good in any sense to Blk60 .. ? Its all superior F-16 in every field.

The Block 60 is the best Viper there is.

But my point was, that only one country, UAE has it.

So, it is not in much widespread use in the world. WHile the Block/52 is in large numbers.

So, it will be the more common adversary.

 

[Donatello]

The author is very smart. He hasn't addressed PAF directly, in fact this article more or less advocates to Eurofighter's WVR capabilities (which are no-doubt world class) against the F-16. Now in the light of facts here are some answers to this article.

1. PAF never participated in AE2011. However PAF did participated in ATLC later in same year (but NATO didn't participated in this ATLC held at UAE)

Following link on AE2011 says: franknoort.nl - Frank's Trip Page


2. NATO has documented its participation in multinational exercises here. There is no record of AE-2008-4 but two other exercises AE-2009-2 and AE-2009-4 are listed. PAF participated in them too.

3. During Exercise Spring Flag 2008, Turkey participated with Italian (NATO) Eurofighters. Following is a kill mark photo on Italian Eurofighter.

The dogfight of Italian Eurofighters and PAF F-16s was just one small example that got limelight. There have been lots of more similar encounters in ATLC, AE and FalconTalon Exercises. I wish Alan Warnes or any other writer shed some light on them too. World should see the true potential of our pilots

Wait.....so the marks show that F-16s were shot down? Right?

 

[alimobin memon]

First of all screw the guy who said PAF f16 was on Ef2000 and other thing is it is not necessary if f16 caught on ef2000 makes that it destroyed it even a rookie can get the ef2000 on mig21 hud so not necessary u got the plane on hUD makes it destroyed.

 

[v9s]

Wait.....so the marks show that F-16s were shot down? Right?

Yeap. Assuming the marks with the crescent and star outside the F-16 silhouette are PAF, PAF was shot down 4 times and Turkey once.

 

[Najam Khan]

Wait.....so the marks show that F-16s were shot down? Right?

Yeap. Assuming the marks with the crescent and star outside the F-16 silhouette are PAF, PAF was shot down 4 times and Turkey once.

Read my post again. Its Italian AF kills against TUAF in Exercise Spring Flag. PAF never release the scores of DACT missions in multinational exercises. Its not even released within PAF...whatever a Sqn does, it remains in its own archives