Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[raveolution]

I agreed about the statement "Great punching Power" but dear kindly explain how against IAF 230 MKI + 126 (now IAF go for 200+) 200 MMRCA

60 Suppose 50/52 Block F16 + 36 J10 (100) VS (430 +) 4.5 Gen Aircraft i ddnt understand how we fight with them. We need atleast 200 F16s + 100+ any other 4.5 Aircraft. Its my opinion Pakistan close its F16 deal with US and move to Dassalt Rafale.

Finally someone who has pinpointed the problem the PAF will face in the future. Historically, the PAF has balanced the IAF's quantity through quality. However, going forward, qualitative and quantitative superiority would lie with the IAF. MKI numbers will also be 280 and not 230 now. So that's like a 5:1 ratio of frontline 4.5 gen aircraft.

Let's keep the "we are waiting for India to select its MRCA" discussion out of this. Are there any other way (Air defense, battle tactics, etc), that the PAF would have considered, keeping in mind that they would be well aware of the situation as well.

 

[ice_man]

Finally someone who has pinpointed the problem the PAF will face in the future. Historically, the PAF has balanced the IAF's quantity through quality. However, going forward, qualitative and quantitative superiority would lie with the IAF. MKI numbers will also be 280 and not 230 now. So that's like a 5:1 ratio of frontline 4.5 gen aircraft.

Let's keep the "we are waiting for India to select its MRCA" discussion out of this. Are there any other way (Air defense, battle tactics, etc), that the PAF would have considered, keeping in mind that they would be well aware of the situation as well.

see even currently PAF if you look at it in terms of equipment vs the IAF we are lagging we got no BVRs we got old fighters while the indians have Mirages,MiGs sukhois all BVR capable even the MiG 21s are upgraded to Bison level!

HOWEVER, this is all on paper....we saw in December when PAF went into high alert mode after the whole indian threat of surgical strikes and so on PAF has a doctrine & pan to counter the indian tactics and BVR capable aircrafts....now once we get our very own BVR Air to air missiles they will act like a force multiplier for us as well as will radically change our Air forces...doctrine if we were not scared to be out numbered out gunned in DECEMBER i am sure will not be scared in the future....a military strategy is always made keeping in mind your limits as well as enemies sophisticated armament!!! so no worries! 18 BLK 52 might not be all we need but then again it is something if utilized efficiently can be lethal

 

[Hyde]

I agreed about the statement "Great punching Power" but dear kindly explain how against IAF 230 MKI + 126 (now IAF go for 200+) 200 MMRCA

60 Suppose 50/52 Block F16 + 36 J10 (100) VS (430 +) 4.5 Gen Aircraft i ddnt understand how we fight with them. We need atleast 200 F16s + 100+ any other 4.5 Aircraft. Its my opinion Pakistan close its F16 deal with US and move to Dassalt Rafale.

well not all the aircrafts will be used for Pakistan....... india has other enemies like China, Bangladesh and other neighbour countries and she will need to station large number of these aircrafts on other parts of its border too while Pakistan's sole enemy is India and stationing very small number of aircrafts near China, Iran and Afghanistan is fine since we don't have any war like tensions between these countries

 

[MZUBAIR]

Thanks Mzubair. If the article says so, then there must be some truth in it. Could u please translate just the main points of the article? I hope this is not one of the Urdu papers which many Pakistani's say are unreliable (My knowledge on this subject is very limited.)

Thanks in advance.

Yeah sure
Few good things in that news post (express news paper)

• We are getting 4 Block 52 in this December 09.
• J-10B or FC-20 deal is going to be finalized, so probab more req and more number of AC then 36.
• We will get all F-16 till 2010.
• PAF have 46 F-16, 121 Mirage & 88 F-7P. Means PAF already grounding old jets especially Mirage III/ V and F-7
• Lateat avoinics & upgradation of all 60 + F-16 will be completed in 2010

Express News Channel and Express Newz paper is very respectable news agency in Pakistan.

Express News Paper
Express News Channel

 

[Sunny4pak]

I think J-10 is better than F-16 block 52.........
there is famous quote that mean ............. something is better that u have in ur hands than the one which is so far away.............

 

[Adios Amigo]

I think J-10 is better than F-16 block 52.........
there is famous quote that mean ............. something is better that u have in ur hands than the one which is so far away.............

that would be>>> a bird in hand, is better then two in the bush

 

[Sunny4pak]

Love to see these birds in PAF before the end of 2010........
May it so happened soon

 

[PAFAce]

I agreed about the statement "Great punching Power" but dear kindly explain how against IAF 230 MKI + 126 (now IAF go for 200+) 200 MMRCA

60 Suppose 50/52 Block F16 + 36 J10 (100) VS (430 +) 4.5 Gen Aircraft i ddnt understand how we fight with them. We need atleast 200 F16s + 100+ any other 4.5 Aircraft. Its my opinion Pakistan close its F16 deal with US and move to Dassalt Rafale.

Sir, you misunderstood. Never will 63 F-16 Block52 (or MLU) and 36 FC-20 take on 230 Su-30MKI + 200 MMRCA-winner. That will never happen. It's going to be far smaller contingents of the two that will ever see each other. And in that scenario, their numerical superiority doesn't matter too much.

Consider this: In 1965, we had about 100 F-86 Sabres, and only 16 (or 19) of them were equipped capable of firing IR missiles (I think AIM-9 Sidewinders, but I'm not sure). However, because of this, every time an F-86 was spotted, it had to be treated as one that could fire these missiles. So what ended up happening was, theoretically for them, every Sabre we flew became one that carried Sidewinders. That was one of the main reasons why IAF pilots just could not dictate the terms of the fight. So, when you say "62 F-16 + 36 FC-20 don't match Indian arsenal", you are oversimplifying.

 

[Rank]

Sir, you misunderstood. Never will 63 F-16 Block52 (or MLU) and 36 FC-20 take on 230 Su-30MKI + 200 MMRCA-winner. That will never happen. It's going to be far smaller contingents of the two that will ever see each other. And in that scenario, their numerical superiority doesn't matter too much.

Consider this: In 1965, we had about 100 F-86 Sabres, and only 16 (or 19) of them were equipped capable of firing IR missiles (I think AIM-9 Sidewinders, but I'm not sure). However, because of this, every time an F-86 was spotted, it had to be treated as one that could fire these missiles. So what ended up happening was, theoretically for them, every Sabre we flew became one that carried Sidewinders. That was one of the main reasons why IAF pilots just could not dictate the terms of the fight. So, when you say "62 F-16 + 36 FC-20 don't match Indian arsenal", you are oversimplifying.

Dear you ddnt get my point actually i am not talking about numbers (definitly we are 1/3 ratio) i am talking about Quality game. My focus on Tech 4.5 not numbers.

We also have more thn ONE ENEMY if you see situation around Pakistan. We have more thn one Enemy around. If India have China & Pakistan, we have another one you guys knows very well. Hidden Truth but its better to prepare everything before any attempt from hidden Side. I think you will understand about whom i am talking. Anyway its off discussion my point is Tech. I dont think 50 (4.0 Suppose) VS 100 (4.5). Technically game on the Enemy side. I trust on PAF pilots PAF already shown his real face in previous war and recent Surgical strike event but in Real war time Today war is totally changed. BVR Game on fireeee!

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Dear you ddnt get my point actually i am not talking about numbers (definitly we are 1/3 ratio) i am talking about Quality game. My focus on Tech 4.5 not numbers.

We also have more thn ONE ENEMY if you see situation around Pakistan. We have more thn one Enemy around. If India have China & Pakistan, we have another one you guys knows very well. Hidden Truth but its better to prepare everything before any attempt from hidden Side. I think you will understand about whom i am talking. Anyway its off discussion my point is Tech. I dont think 50 (4.0 Suppose) VS 100 (4.5). Technically game on the Enemy side. I trust on PAF pilots PAF already shown his real face in previous war and recent Surgical strike event but in Real war time Today war is totally changed. BVR Game on fireeee!

Agreed about tech quality and all but as for the BVR game, knowing the distance between our border and bases in india, pakistan MRAAM will always be aleader than the BVRAM

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Sir, you misunderstood. Never will 63 F-16 Block52 (or MLU) and 36 FC-20 take on 230 Su-30MKI + 200 MMRCA-winner. That will never happen. It's going to be far smaller contingents of the two that will ever see each other. And in that scenario, their numerical superiority doesn't matter too much.

Consider this: In 1965, we had about 100 F-86 Sabres, and only 16 (or 19) of them were equipped capable of firing IR missiles (I think AIM-9 Sidewinders, but I'm not sure). However, because of this, every time an F-86 was spotted, it had to be treated as one that could fire these missiles. So what ended up happening was, theoretically for them, every Sabre we flew became one that carried Sidewinders. That was one of the main reasons why IAF pilots just could not dictate the terms of the fight. So, when you say "62 F-16 + 36 FC-20 don't match Indian arsenal", you are oversimplifying.

i totally agree that number should always not have been be a problem for us​

I think J-10 is better than F-16 block 52.........
there is famous quote that mean ............. something is better that u have in ur hands than the one which is so far away.............

sorry f-16 is so lethal dog fighter that even USAF F-15E/F-strike eagles pilots have admitted without any shame that when you have got f-16 behind you in chase it is nearly impossible to get out of it's sight​

Yeah sure
Few good things in that news post (express news paper)

• We are getting 4 Block 52 in this December 09.
• J-10B or FC-20 deal is going to be finalized, so probab more req and more number of AC then 36.
• We will get all F-16 till 2010.
• PAF have 46 F-16, 121 Mirage & 88 F-7P. Means PAF already grounding old jets especially Mirage III/ V and F-7
• Lateat avoinics & upgradation of all 60 + F-16 will be completed in 2010

Express News Channel and Express Newz paper is very respectable news agency in Pakistan.

Express News Paper
Express News Channel

it's a very good news that we are getting our upgraded F-16A/B(MLUs) before 2010
but we also need our all JF-17thunders blockI before 2010........
and i think that insha'allah we would also be successful in this too......
on the other other i hve some serious doubts that we are receiving our fc-20 before 2011​

 

[owais.usmani]

Rep. Kay Granger from Texas’ 12th District; Air Chief Marshall Rao Qamar, commander of Pakistan’s Air Force; Amb. Hussain Haqqani, Pakistani Ambassador to U.S.; and Gen. Norton A. Schwartz, U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff, pose for a photo opportunity after Pakistan’s first F-16 Block 52 Aircraft was rolled out during a ceremony in Fort Worth, Texas Oct. 13.​

Above picture is not very clear but still you can clearly see the AMRAAM which is not visible in this picture:

 

[PakShaheen79]

Agreed about tech quality and all but as for the BVR game, knowing the distance between our border and bases in india, pakistan MRAAM will always be aleader than the BVRAM

What does that exactly mean, BTW?

 

[PakShaheen79]

it's a very good news that we are getting our upgraded F-16A/B(MLUs) before 2010
but we also need our all JF-17thunders blockI before 2010........
and i think that insha'allah we would also be successful in this too......
on the other other i hve some serious doubts that we are receiving our fc-20 before 2011​

Bro.. It will take some more time than that for Block -I Thunder to be inducted (i.e. 50). Till 2011 PAC will able to roll out 25/year. So may be we get all 50 inducted by end of 2011 or by early 2012 meanwhile PAF looking for avionics and radar for Block II.

FC-20, I agree, are not coming before 2014.

 

[Novice09]

Hello to all members,

From last six months, I'm following several defense websites and blogs specially those which are colligated with Bharat and Pakistan. I found that people want that there governments should get more n more weapons.

Now, I just have one question. Why?

I know this post is on F16, which is a combat proven fighter monster. I think that 70+ F16s are enough for Pakistan to defend there country against any threat from their enemies because if their enemies will crush their fleet of 1000+, 4.5 gen fighter jets (just an example) Pakistan will surely use their Nukes. They can do the same if their 70+, 4 gen fighter jets' fleet is mashed up.

Instead of putting this huge money to purchase weapons from foreign countries, I serious believe that both countries should work to strengthen their domestic defense industry (as Bharat is doing by asking for complete ToT with MMRCA).

by the the way, as I told earlier F16 is a great fighter jet which Pakistan can get in such conditions.

Jai Hind!!!