Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[MZUBAIR]

Hello to all members,

From last six months, I'm following several defense websites and blogs specially those which are colligated with Bharat and Pakistan. I found that people want that there governments should get more n more weapons.
Now, I just have one question. Why?

I know this post is on F16, which is a combat proven fighter monster. I think that 70+ F16s are enough for Pakistan to defend there country against any threat from their enemies because if their enemies will crush their fleet of 1000+, 4.5 gen fighter jets (just an example) Pakistan will surely use their Nukes. They can do the same if their 70+, 4 gen fighter jets' fleet is mashed up.

Instead of putting this huge money to purchase weapons from foreign countries, I serious believe that both countries should work to strengthen their domestic defense industry (as Bharat is doing by asking for complete ToT with MMRCA).

by the the way, as I told earlier F16 is a great fighter jet which Pakistan can get in such conditions.

Jai Hind!!!

lolz...

Some one like you, discuss these concerns with Indian higher miltary and Gov administration.

Pakistan is forced to procure miltary weapons, coz India is to unbalance regional power.

Pakistan only procure miltary weapons, only and only to counter India.
India is planning to get 250 MKI, 126 MRCA n few more in plan....then definately Pakistan and China would have to procure n invest to keep up the balance in the region.

And one more thing, that PAF is not geting F-16 on any condition. Plz avoid senseless statements

Batter to stick on the topic or open new thread.

 

[raveolution]

lolz...

Some one like you, discuss these concerns with Indian higher miltary and Gov administration.

Pakistan is forced to procure miltary weapons, coz India is to unbalance regional power.

Pakistan only procure miltary weapons, only and only to counter India.
India is planning to get 250 MKI, 126 MRCA n few more in plan....then definately Pakistan and China would have to procure n invest to keep up the balance in the region.

And one more thing, that PAF is not geting F-16 on any condition. Plz avoid senseless statements

Batter to stick on the topic or open new thread.

Bro,first of all get over the fact that Indian is obsessed with Pakistan. It is the other way around. India now looks to China as a rival,not necessarily an enemy.

And as for creating military imbalances, I think you should ask that to China. India uses about 2.5% of its GDP, Pakistan uses about 5% of its GDP and China uses 6% officially and upto 8% unofficially for defence allocation. If we really wanted a race, you would have seen 560 MKI's and 400 MRCA's.

And yes, lets stick to the topic. BTW no hesitation is saying that the F16's Blk 52's are really potent and amazing platforms.

 

[raveolution]

Hello to all members,

From last six months, I'm following several defense websites and blogs specially those which are colligated with Bharat and Pakistan. I found that people want that there governments should get more n more weapons.

Now, I just have one question. Why?

I know this post is on F16, which is a combat proven fighter monster. I think that 70+ F16s are enough for Pakistan to defend there country against any threat from their enemies because if their enemies will crush their fleet of 1000+, 4.5 gen fighter jets (just an example) Pakistan will surely use their Nukes. They can do the same if their 70+, 4 gen fighter jets' fleet is mashed up.

Instead of putting this huge money to purchase weapons from foreign countries, I serious believe that both countries should work to strengthen their domestic defense industry (as Bharat is doing by asking for complete ToT with MMRCA).

by the the way, as I told earlier F16 is a great fighter jet which Pakistan can get in such conditions.

Jai Hind!!!

Welcome to the forum.

There is something known as conventional deterrence as well. For example, if the PAF loses 50 F-16's in battle, it cannot just press the nuclear button for this loss alone. Nukes means Mutually Assured Destruction, which the govt. has to consider as a price for using the nuclear option.

BTW I was seeing the interview of AAZ on Larry King and there he said that Pakistan would never use nuclear weapons first. Doesn't that conflict with the PA's policy?

 

[ice_man]

Bro,first of all get over the fact that Indian is obsessed with Pakistan. It is the other way around. India now looks to China as a rival,not necessarily an enemy.

And as for creating military imbalances, I think you should ask that to China. India uses about 2.5% of its GDP, Pakistan uses about 5% of its GDP and China uses 6% officially and upto 8% unofficially for defence allocation. If we really wanted a race, you would have seen 560 MKI's and 400 MRCA's.

And yes, lets stick to the topic. BTW no hesitation is saying that the F16's Blk 52's are really potent and amazing platforms.

thank you for derailing the thread!!!! but it is a blatant lie if india says PAKISTAN is not our enemy! all your forward deployement bases are close to pakistan everything you got is mostly pointed towards us even your media talks about us being a "threat" so please spare me the BS that china is our enemy! you are still equally obssesed with us as we are with you!

 

[ice_man]

Welcome to the forum.

There is something known as conventional deterrence as well. For example, if the PAF loses 50 F-16's in battle, it cannot just press the nuclear button for this loss alone. Nukes means Mutually Assured Destruction, which the govt. has to consider as a price for using the nuclear option.

BTW I was seeing the interview of AAZ on Larry King and there he said that Pakistan would never use nuclear weapons first. Doesn't that conflict with the PA's policy?

ASIF ALI ZARDARI is NOT our elected president!!! we elected PPP out of sympathy for Benazir a BIG MISTAKE becuz we never dreamnt of him as our President!

however, having said that Pakistanis are not crazy to go to nuclear war unless PUSHED too!!! BUT that doesn't mean we will use it first neither does it mean WE WON'T use it first!!! it will all come down to situation at hand at that stage!

now stop derailing our thread please!!

 

[unicorn148]

india MMRCA is just to replace its old planes and not an arms race if india uses 5 % of the gdp india would have been buying more than 500 mmrca and eveb us is offering f16 IN whcih is most advance version in f16 and is far too superior to block 50/52 which pakisthan will be getting

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Bro.. It will take some more time than that for Block -I Thunder to be inducted (i.e. 50). Till 2011 PAC will able to roll out 25/year. So may be we get all 50 inducted by end of 2011 or by early 2012 meanwhile PAF looking for avionics and radar for Block II.

FC-20, I agree, are not coming before 2014.

45A/Bs + 18C/Ds + 150 BLOCK I&II=163
do you think this figure is matchable for our f-16s against mighty indian air force comprises of nearly 300 SU-30
and 120 of mig-29 and mirage 2000
and 120 of MIG-21 BISONS
and 200 of jaguar and mig-27
by 2015​

 

[zavis2003]

45A/Bs + 18C/Ds + 150 BLOCK I&II=163
do you think this figure is matchable for our f-16s against mighty indian air force comprises of nearly 300 SU-30
and 120 of mig-29 and mirage 2000
and 120 of MIG-21 BISONS
and 200 of jaguar and mig-27
by 2015​

no no no thi s wont happens in future
by 2015 u wont see jaguars mig 27 and mig 23 as strike role dedicated ground role craft coz india is getting MRCA from US 126 in nos.

secondly what u anlysed about indian AF is wrong they would be more power full in 2015 then today but PAF would be diff in 2015 too
the JF 1&2 would be potent in the future as by upfgrades still very capabale in PGM a2G attacks and PAF would never have 163 planes always PAf try to maintains 400 plus fighters as we are big country too
and for get coffins oh sorry i means bisons MIGS21. they are so old that there frame are out dated in couple of kming years and spare part factory of Mig 21 bisons has get a contract of making frames for truck buses from scraped MIg21 through recycling

 

[PakShaheen79]

I wish PAF had press for SABR (Scalable Agile Beam Radar) which is an AESA radar for its new F-16s. I am really impressed by this peace of hardware. It is different from AGP-80 installed on UAE's Vipers.

 

[Novice09]

Bro,first of all get over the fact that Indian is obsessed with Pakistan. It is the other way around. India now looks to China as a rival,not necessarily an enemy.

And as for creating military imbalances, I think you should ask that to China. India uses about 2.5% of its GDP, Pakistan uses about 5% of its GDP and China uses 6% officially and upto 8% unofficially for defence allocation. If we really wanted a race, you would have seen 560 MKI's and 400 MRCA's.

And yes, lets stick to the topic. BTW no hesitation is saying that the F16's Blk 52's are really potent and amazing platforms.

Hi Bro!

Did I mention I my post that India in competing with Pakistan or trying to match their Armed forces (for that India have to degrade military capabilities)?

Ok lets come back to F16..........

Its a proven Fighter Jet. I don't want to copy n paste something from WIKI or any other source to prove it. But stuff comes with an *sign (terms and conditions apply). That's y i told to strengthen domestic defense industry. Pak should make their JF17s more lethal and India should do same with Tejas.

US is known for arm twisting when a country do something against their will.

 

[PAFAce]

Bro,first of all get over the fact that Indian is obsessed with Pakistan. It is the other way around. India now looks to China as a rival,not necessarily an enemy.

Classic Cold War games. After China, it will be the Russia, after that the US, and after even that, it will be some mythical power from another dimension, as long as there is even a remotely credible reason to develop weapons, we will do so. On the one hand, you say "China is our main rival now, not Pakistan", on the other hand, you toughen up your stance against China to instigate a response from them, and the snake feeds on itself.

Don't mean to pick on you specifically. It is the game the Indian defence analysts are playing, and it's fun to watch. The US and the Soviet Union did this during the Cold War, exaggerating and hyping the threat, that is. This is an indirect way of making sure the military gets what it wants when it wants, and if they don't get it, the people make the government pay. What is even more amusing, however, is when this same myth is used to reinforce the superiority complex over Pakistan, then you get gems like "Pakistan is obsessed with India, India is only trying to match China". Like I said, always fun to watch.

This is what you should say: "We develop weapons because we can and we want to, end of story". I won't like that, but I will respect it. Don't invent lies to justify your actions. Just man up.

 

[raveolution]

Hi Bro!

Did I mention I my post that India in competing with Pakistan or trying to match their Armed forces (for that India have to degrade military capabilities)?

Ok lets come back to F16..........

Its a proven Fighter Jet. I don't want to copy n paste something from WIKI or any other source to prove it. But stuff comes with an *sign (terms and conditions apply). That's y i told to strengthen domestic defense industry. Pak should make their JF17s more lethal and India should do same with Tejas.

US is known for arm twisting when a country do something against their will.

Hey bro... my post was in reply to Mzubair's post, not yours. You'll get the hang of it soon

As for the F16, yes it is a combat proven and really potent aircraft. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

The problem would be when the MKI is upgraded and the MRCA would start coming in. Around 2012-13, we would have begin to have features such as AESA, Supercruise, etc as standard on our frontline aircraft. I don't think the PAF F16's would be further upgraded in the next 5-7 years. But the arrival of 36 J-10 and around 70 F-16 would form a decent deterrent.

The thing I was trying to address is that India is not catching up with Pakistan in an Arms race, it is the other way around. We are trying to match China, which we will never be able to do so with our current budget. Imagine if we spent 6-8% of our GDP on defence, the quality and quantity of firepower available from Western countries would be unimaginable.

 

[raveolution]

Classic Cold War games. After China, it will be the Russia, after that the US, and after even that, it will be some mythical power from another dimension, as long as there is even a remotely credible reason to develop weapons, we will do so. On the one hand, you say "China is our main rival now, not Pakistan", on the other hand, you toughen up your stance against China to instigate a response from them, and the snake feeds on itself.

Don't mean to pick on you specifically. It is the game the Indian defence analysts are playing, and it's fun to watch. The US and the Soviet Union did this during the Cold War, exaggerating and hyping the threat, that is. This is an indirect way of making sure the military gets what it wants when it wants, and if they don't get it, the people make the government pay. What is even more amusing, however, is when this same myth is used to reinforce the superiority complex over Pakistan, then you get gems like "Pakistan is obsessed with India, India is only trying to match China". Like I said, always fun to watch.

This is what you should say: "We develop weapons because we can and we want to, end of story". I won't like that, but I will respect it. Don't invent lies to justify your actions. Just man up.

Cheers PAFAce... however much I am against war, I think insecurity and fear always prevail over common sense and sanity for the majority. The only people benefiting from this are the Arms manufacturers who are laughing their way to the bank.

And it's true. India is keen on matching China in most fields, even though we are not even close. India is getting slowly obsessed with China as you can see in the recent news, though most of it is over-hyped by the media. The only difference with Pakistan and China are that we have been enemies for decades and are left with a bitter taste for each other. With China, save for the border war in 1962, relations have improved and trade and economic ties especially have boomed.

Pakistan has a enemy on one front, unless you count Afghanistan. The only country that Pakistan is trying to match is India, as it really does not have to worry about anyone else. India on the other hand has to wary on both sides.

Someone suggested that India considers Pakistan as its enemy no. 1. Well that will always be the case, unless relations with China degrade to the level that we share with Pakistan.

Anyways I think the both of us have derailed the thread enough for a couple of days. Lol

 

[unicorn148]

pakisthan may be getting 70 f 16 c/d but US is offering INDIA f16 IN which is even superior to the f 16 e/f.
Lockheed Martin has described the F-16IN as “the most advanced and capable F-16 ever.”

 

[Mahrukh Muzafar]

i didnt understand the whole discussion . China is enemy of pakistan and india both or only india ?India is trying to catch up with (pakistan,china) whom?who has the most powerful forces in three of these?