Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[sonicboom]

I believe CBS is not just a local news channel. But I could be wrong. We get CBS here in Canada, it's international television.

In any case, I was just trying to be a smart aleck. Forgive me.

Yaar, it is a local affiliate of CBS and that news clip was a local broadcast by the channel for the Dallas/Fort Worth area. So don't worry and be happy.

 

[owais.usmani]

 

[IceCold]

i have only one word on JF-17 & F-16 combination
"deadly combination" i will urge PAF to finance the money on f-16 decided to be allocated on J-10
becasue in my view F-16 is alot more effective as dogfighter and A2G attacks as compare to it's chinese counterpart J-10

The days for a typical dog fight are numbered if not over. Modern warfare will depend upon BVR and we need to have an effective BVR capability.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Bring 'em Home as soon as possible

 

[boxer_B]

@ raveolution

175 MKI

Correct me If i m wrong, the deal about Up gradation of M2k to 5 standard is not finalized, French are demanding too much

Money is not a problem. Kindly confirm with news article.

as for MMRCA, I m hearing about this since like 2004 or 05, sorry to say but its more ranting than anything practical...

Quickly, mail to all MMRCA competitors to stop wasting their money and resources on Indian trials. By the way, F-16 and F-18 trails are completed and rafale has touched down bangalore

The Hindu : Karnataka / Bangalore News : Rafale lands in Bangalore

I hope I will see LCA inducted in my Life time

Chandrayaan happened in your lifetime aint it? And LCA has completed 1000+ field trials.

BTW i really need to know how there will be 280 MKI end by 2014-15...

I am expecting 250-255 if current numbers are 105

plus F-35 & RAPPTOR!
& EVERYTHING in the world of MILITRY AVIATION, right?
our deals are comming forward step by step, when your M,RCA thing will be in the skies, kindly give us a date.
thanks

Get off your high horse, unlike you we have many sellers at our disposal. And nah, we will better stick with FGFA/PAK-FA

Ice,

Every little bit helps. Our rival is offered Blk70 on paper! We have blk-52 on hand. A very big difference.

CONCUR

Americans can promise the Indians Starship Enterprise (from the famous Startrek) if they'd like to, however what is blk70? Nobody knows. The cost of blk-60 is as such that an order in the tune of 125-200 aircraft would make it pretty cost-prohibitive for the Indians.

Nah, we just need to get $1 trillion sitting in swiss bank account of our corrupt politicians.
And i think, india was offered Blk-60.

WIKI QUOTE

The F-16IN, which is similar to the F-16 Block 60, will be a 4.5 generation aircraft. Lockheed Martin has stated that it will be the most advanced F-16 variant developed. It will be more advanced than the F-16 Block 52s that the Pakistan Air Force has acquired.

UNQUOTE

So the blk-70 is not necessarily the most advanced. If anything, it will be customized to Indian requirements and by the time that buy it and induct it, Pakistan would be looking at something beyond the F-16s.

Was never interested in F-16IN. I somehow felt relieved that pakistan got these birds. Now officially LM is out of MMRCA

The 18 blk-52s inducted have the AIDEWS ECM and EW suite on it which is the latest ECM suite available in the US. That is a significant capability given that even older PAF F-16s can conduct pretty serious jamming during operations. The Blk52s afford much greater endurance and the ability to use these aircraft for air interdiction, precision attack, maritime interdiction and electronic warfare in support of strike packages. All these advantages are not to be taken lightly. If employed effectively with the rest of the aircraft in service, these aircraft can do a lot to deny superiority to the other side.

Lastly, blk-52s are in addition to a lot of other upgradation and inductions. We have JF-17s coming off the production line, we are slated to take possession of the Erieye and then FC-20s. Each aircraft has a place in the PAF and as such the abilities of the F-16 blk52 cannot be taken lightly.

This purchase is one of equals. We paid and they delivered. Lets appreciate it instead of being constantly burdened by the past.

I'd rather have a larger number of bllk-52 F-16s than MKIs. F-16 is a better MR platform than most others on the market.

MKI also carries EW and ECM suite Tarang. And there is a problem, pakistan will have at most 60 block 52 F-16 as against 260 Su-30 MKI not to mention upgraded MIG-29.

And another point, MCA $2 billion program is also there which will be benefited by MMRCA so we can expect them in 2018.

 

[arsalan shafique]

i want to know that does these f-16's have got CTF????

 

[Patriot]

i want to know that does these f-16's have got CTF????

YES YES YES!!
Anyway guys stop worrying.Looks like we'll get these birds.Anyway some members might even worry about sanctions after retirement of F-16.
"Damn I don't trust those Americans....I don't know about those F-16s, Uncle Sam might embargo us, and if they do, they'll be useless in the museum"

 

[Rank]

Pakistan New F16 Block 52 Banner

Ver1

 

[MZUBAIR]

Mzubair bro we've had these discussions so many time... LOL..

PAF in 2010/11 will be:

28 JF17 (8 currently plus 20 more next year, thats the rate of production mentioned by the ACM in his speech... link is somewhere on this forum, which is in itself pretty high.)

I hope ur not tollroing....any ways according to ACM first Sqd will be prepare by the end of this year for Peshawar air base......n for ur kind information...Peshawar air base hav 2 Sqd of 20 n 22 air crafts with total of 42. First Sqd with 20+ JF-17 will be up this year.I am not dogging by telling that reference link is somewhere on this forum....infact i am quoting ACM interview reference link for u.

JF-17 Thunder Aircrafts Squadron to be set up in Peshawar: Air Chief

55 F16's but not all upgraded. Only the first batch has started upgradation and this programme will end by 2012-13.

Ur information is not correct....4 of PAF F-16 are already in MLU process ...which will take them equivalent to block 52. Remaing will be in 2010/11. Soon i will post u details of contract with reference.

Absolutely no J10's. The J10'B' is still under development and the Pakistani FC 20 will be ready only by 2014-15 at best. This has already been discussed in the J10 thread.

initial J-10B 8 to 10 will be delievered in 2011...
total 36 will be completed in 2014/15.........even if we dont hav a single J-10B......still no one dare to challange us.

Mirage Rose and F7 numbers are okay.

As regards the IAF, India around 2010-11will have around

175 MKI's (due to the recent order of 50 more from Russia directly. The entire program of 280 MKI's will be finished by 2014-15. Additionally, the MLU program would also have begun.)

even u hav 175 still IAF wouldnt hav edge.

60 Mig 29 upgraded to SMT (Mig 33 standards)

51 Mirage 2000 (upgraded to 5 standard)

U forgot the 100 Mig 27's and 140 Jaguars and 125 Mig 21 Bisons, forget about the LCA and the MRCA which will only start deliveries by 2012.

Mig 27, Jguars n Mig 21 are old horses......IAF will never use them in serious action.

That makes it PAF-215 vs IAF 640, though i suspect PAF will still retain its much older Mirage and F7's until newer aircraft arrive.

Ur statements n analysis are proveless

Also, the Air force will never hesitate to use its full force, even fighters from its eastern bases in the event of a war, unless China declares war as well, whose stand on this issue was demonstrated in the 1965/71 wars.

Please feel free to disagree and let me know if my numbers are off.

lolz...u forgot how u were punished in 1971 n 1965. ur bases n fleet were destroyed.


u Bharatrakshak also accepts those defeats.


I m giving u prove coz its very hard to conviencve sensless buddy.

bharat-rakshak accepts Loss in 1965 war


Child ,next time dont try to flame

 

[boxer_B]

well done congratulations PAF! and yep. RIP MKI

Cool, next time make sure those armed MKI's dont go unhurt from your territory and someone doesnot pass by at mach 2 speed over your skies.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Cool, next time make sure those armed MKI's dont go unhurt from your territory and someone doesnot pass by at mach 2 speed over your skies.

Did that ever happened b4? :p

U forgot that ur MKI n Migs were locked by PAF jets in Dec 08


Indian fighter jets violate Pakistan air space, PAF jets intercepted

Indian jet planes violate Pakistan air space: PM Gilani


Pakistan shoots down two Indian MiGs

Now its very hrd that IAF dare to think again .

 

[nightrider_saulat]

The days for a typical dog fight are numbered if not over. Modern warfare will depend upon BVR and we need to have an effective BVR capability.

F-16s with an undisputed telly of 71 air-air kills without any single loss is enough
to give him the tittle of an absolute dogfighter(already have been recognized as best MRA)
so after this you would still consider J-10 a much more effective aircraft as compare to F-16

 

[raveolution]

plus F-35 & RAPPTOR!
& EVERYTHING in the world of MILITRY AVIATION, right?
our deals are comming forward step by step, when your M,RCA thing will be in the skies, kindly give us a date.
thanks

Thanks for your reply Batman. Bro nowhere in my post have I taken the MRCA into account of my numbers. Infact I've said forget it for the moment. As for a firm date, unfortunately its not in my hand. However I can best illustrate the timeline as follows:

Aug-Dec '09: Initial trials (Bangalore) (3 contenders have finished and Rafale is undergoing trials currently)
Dec-Feb '09: High Altitude Trials (Leh/Kashmir)
Apr-May '09: High Temperature Heat Trials (Rajasthan)
Jun-Oct '09: Live firing and weapons/avionics trials (in respective countries alongwith IAF pilots)
Nov-Apr '09: Recommendation of the IAF and final decision of the defence ministry, CCS, CAG)
May '09: Order and simultaneous beginning of indigenous production
May '10 : Arrival of first squadron in flyaway condition (part of the deal)

Hope this clears the air. As your deals are clearing step by step so will this. A $10 billion order is not a joke. No offence but unlike the PAF, the IAF has to conduct multiple trials as there are more than one contender.

Hope you agree with me.

 

[batmannow]

Ice,

Every little bit helps. Our rival is offered Blk70 on paper! We have blk-52 on hand. A very big difference. Americans can promise the Indians Starship Enterprise (from the famous Startrek) if they'd like to, however what is blk70? Nobody knows. The cost of blk-60 is as such that an order in the tune of 125-200 aircraft would make it pretty cost-prohibitive for the Indians. So the blk-70 is not necessarily the most advanced. If anything, it will be customized to Indian requirements and by the time that buy it and induct it, Pakistan would be looking at something beyond the F-16s.

The 18 blk-52s inducted have the AIDEWS ECM and EW suite on it which is the latest ECM suite available in the US. That is a significant capability given that even older PAF F-16s can conduct pretty serious jamming during operations. The Blk52s afford much greater endurance and the ability to use these aircraft for air interdiction, precision attack, maritime interdiction and electronic warfare in support of strike packages. All these advantages are not to be taken lightly. If employed effectively with the rest of the aircraft in service, these aircraft can do a lot to deny superiority to the other side.

Lastly, blk-52s are in addition to a lot of other upgradation and inductions. We have JF-17s coming off the production line, we are slated to take possession of the Erieye and then FC-20s. Each aircraft has a place in the PAF and as such the abilities of the F-16 blk52 cannot be taken lightly.

This purchase is one of equals. We paid and they delivered. Lets appreciate it instead of being constantly burdened by the past.

I'd rather have a larger number of bllk-52 F-16s than MKIs. F-16 is a better MR platform than most others on the market.

A salut FROM THIS crazy SOLIDER SIR!

for your great input!

 

[blain2]

MKI also carries EW and ECM suite Tarang. And there is a problem, pakistan will have at most 60 block 52 F-16 as against 260 Su-30 MKI not to mention upgraded MIG-29.

And another point, MCA $2 billion program is also there which will be benefited by MMRCA so we can expect them in 2018.

Not denying that the MKI has EW. Pretty much all newer aircraft have this. However the EW suite on the MKI is the exact same as the one on Soufa. AIDEWS came out much later (they just conducted initial testing in March/April 09 timeframe) way after the Israelis had done that integration on the Soufa and provided the same to the IAF for the MKI. With time, technology and processing power also increases. Secondly, AIDEWS is a suite of capabilities whereas others are stand-alone ECM components as deployed on the MKI.

Any which way you look at it, it is a more recent ECM/EW capability and certainly one of the newest ones to be inducted in Asia.