Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Raider 21]

Well maintaned jets are like well maintained cars. What PAF has been replacing F-16s with are more scrap and useless and they are the F-7Ps the oldest jets having 2-300 hours of life left in them. Trust me replacing them would be like a great leap for that lucky squadron.

A worn out F-16 is more useful than a mid-life F-7.....trust me on that.

 

[MIRauf]

That's like 10-15 years of Service ( 2K/3K hrs left on airframe. ) Can't beat that if you have the infrastructure built up to support it and specially if one is on shoe string budget. Not all countries can afford to dole out $10+ billion for 36 jets.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I think the nitty gritty does matter even in small thing such as discussions on a forum. We already have a tendency to ignore details and the 'chalta hai' mentality has been a detriment for our people and progress. It is thus important to get the details right or at least if unsure, leave them out. This is how misinformation spreads, exponentially gets bigger and once into the mainstream it becomes 'fact'.

On the news itself, it would be great if PAF can get used F-16s. BTW I never believed we had ANY chance of getting any further F-16s from Jordan as they have themselves been buying the MLU birds from Europe. They got rid of their ANG versions of the old non-MLU F-16 and it simplifies their maintenance and training streams too. Possible that there were background deal making for PAF not being able to get additional birds from US directly (perhaps politics or optics). Regardless, RJAF has no spare F-16s to sell PAF so we should forget about that rumor mill.

Now for the European F-16s, their MLU was done up to the M6.5 standard I believe (retired ones that they have been selling are of M5 standard). For those interested to know, there is not one "standard" MLU upgrade. There are multiple versions of the mid-life upgrade that add specific enhancements to the F-16. There was an article recently in AFM that mentioned some of the issues with the Jordanian procurement of Dutch F-16s where the jets were to be downgraded to the M3 standard but there were some hardware/component issues with integration and the US finally allowed those to stay at the M5 standard.

The M3 tape provides Link 16 integration, GPS bombs capability, Helmet mounted sights, NVG compatibility.
The M5 tape further allows for additional stand-off weapons like the dual-mode EGBU-12, Stores management systems, improved GPS and INS systems, newer standard for Link-16 and newer VHF radios etc.

PAF F-16s are at least of M4 standard as it allows for integration of Sniper targeting pods.

 

[Tps43]

Sirilankan a phlipeno/ Chinese ?? Avm may be Cmd of air war college ?

Army aviation Col, Punjab regiment Col ??

Yup u may be right apology

 

[BATMAN]

Well maintaned jets are like well maintained cars. What PAF has been replacing F-16s with are more scrap and useless and they are the F-7Ps the oldest jets having 2-300 hours of life left in them. Trust me replacing them would be like a great leap for that lucky squadron.

Make more jF17.. that's the correct replacement of F7PG
One scrap F16 would cost Pakistan maybe $5mil. than comes its service spares, which may cost another $5mil. and we will be able to squeeze out of it, maybe 500-1000 hours.
Whereas we can have local made jF-17 with all its potential for less than $20mil.

 

[salman-1]

With all it's gizmos and gadgets available to Pakistan a F-16 Blk. 15 with Mlu is much better threat than a Blk 2. Even at strike or recce role it's still a decade ahead of Thunders. Thunders just got it's first aselpods which has to be practiced a lot for mastering. Where as all recce and targeting pods on F16s are battle proven gadgets.

 

[Shabi1]

JF-17 Block-3 and above will be more advanced but can't argue with the larger payload capability of the F-16 and it's advantages in the strike role.

PAF in my opinion will leave no stone un turned and despite the politics will continue to acquire used F-16s and upgrade them just as it did with the Mirage.

 

[araz]

JF-17 Block-3 and above will be more advanced but can't argue with the larger payload capability of the F-16 and it's advantages in the strike role.

PAF in my opinion will leave no stone un turned and despite the politics will continue to acquire used F-16s and upgrade them just as it did with the Mirage.

Quite sensible but the US mood is something that will hamper PAF's efforts. My problem remains with the threat of sanctions which could jeoperdise the functioning of upto 100 planes. I understand war reserves and PAF inbuilt capabilities of repair and upkeep but still sanctions remain a destabilizing factor. Cost and infrastructure wise it makes perfect sense to induct upto a total of 100 Bl. 15 platforms as out infrastructure can support it.
A

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi can some informed memeber shed some light what going to happen with European f16 as they are acquiring f35 so most of them can not maintain large number of f16 on their pay roll beside
Having a money minting f35
So in that case either sell them to the countries already operating f16 or something like buy back
Thing from LM to push for the sale of.f35 as is the case with French they are pushing their sale of
Rafale while buying back some old mirages from one of the middle eastern country
Any input from a learned member will be appreciated
Thank you

 

[volatile]

A grounded F16 due to parts is not even worth F6 in air

A worn out F-16 is more useful than a mid-life F-7.....trust me on that.

 

[Imran Khan]

Hi can some informed memeber shed some light what going to happen with European f16 as they are acquiring f35 so most of them can not maintain large number of f16 on their pay roll beside
Having a money minting f35
So in that case either sell them to the countries already operating f16 or something like buy back
Thing from LM to push for the sale of.f35 as is the case with French they are pushing their sale of
Rafale while buying back some old mirages from one of the middle eastern country
Any input from a learned member will be appreciated
Thank you

these f-16s have no life left sir mostly using over sea and push the limit . buying them means you have MLU and structure upgrade facility so you can use them that we don't have . so forget them

 

[BATMAN]

A worn out F-16 is more useful than a mid-life F-7.....trust me on that.

Sure you are trusted on that one... but how much a worn out F-16 would cost !

Quite sensible but the US mood is something that will hamper PAF's efforts.

Not allowing Pakistan to buy scrap is helping Pakistan.

 

[araz]

Sure you are trusted on that one... but how much a worn out F-16 would cost !


Not allowing Pakistan to buy scrap is helping Pakistan.

Beggers cannot be choosers. We want to maintain a 1/2 million army and 400 jet fleet AF but dont have the money even to pay the interest on the money we have borrowed. We will probably have to take another bailout from IMF in the not too distant future. So yes scrap it may be to them but to us it is still a valuable commodity. Which would you rather have then, some scrap or no defence.
W

 

[BATMAN]

Bevfers cannot be choosers. We want to maintain a 1/2 million army and 400 jet fleet AF but dont have the money even to pay the interest on the money we have borrowed. We will probably have to tqke another bailout from IMF in the not too distant future. So yes scrap it may be to them but to us it os still a valuable commodity. Which would you rather have then, some scrap or no defence.
W

In that case wasting $millions on scrap doesn't make much sense.
Whereas in case of jF-17, capital remains in Pakistan !
IMO, Pakistan should be focused on jF17 and now also in AZAM which will give us higher payload equivalent to F-16.

 

[araz]

In that case wasting $millions on scrap doesn't make much sense.
Whereas in case of jF-17, capital remains in Pakistan !
IMO, Pakistan should be focused on jF17 and now also in AZAM which will give us higher payload equivalent to F-16.

The last block of 50 JFT planes we procured we signed a deal of hundreds of millions of dollars with China. True the cost is less than a new plane from outside but still a cost has to be paid. So No your contention is not correct.
Look I dont want to prolong this debate. The point I am making is that the capabilities that MLUed Bl.15s bring to PAF can not be compared to the JFT.
Yes if Bl.3 can supplement fully the role of the 16s which it cannot; as the 2 platforms have different roles and capabilities; then you may not need the 16s but if second hand examples can be procured , given fleet obsolescence and lack of money in the kitty, and rate of development of infrastructure for newer JFT VS established infrastructure for F16s, this would be a good interim solution.
I fully understand that US can sanction you again but unless the sanctions last years upon years and then the war comes, we will be fine with our current inventory given the stockpiles and rebuilding capacity.
A