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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

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Originally Posted by Growler View Post
oh sir g you are very wrong..

please check out dutch and Belgium block 15 new upgradtion program.... if you do read few things about MLU M5 and you will find out that block 52 is nothing front of it... i mean technically MLU M5 is not better but as good as block 52+... lets just leave the CFT, and new air frame for now..

what have i said wrong!(By fatman17)

LOLZ
 
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ANALYSIS
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2009

Jane's Defence Weekly

Used USAF F-16s provide cheap multirole option

Older F-16 fighters slated for retirement by the USAF offer a desirable solution to cash-strapped governments and armed forces, as Jim Dorschner reports

Recently announced plans by the US Air Force (USAF) to retire older F-16 Fighting Falcon multirole fighter aircraft will prove advantageous for several lower-tier air forces with long-standing requirements that are otherwise unlikely to be addressed in the face of today's tough economic conditions.

The Combat Air Forces restructuring plan unveiled in early May by USAF Secretary Michael Donley calls for the retirement of 134 mostly Block 25 F-16s as part of a comprehensive plan to save some USD3.5 billion over the next five fiscal years. This money can then be redirected towards reducing current capability gaps - by expanding MQ-1 Predator and MQ-9 Reaper unmanned aerial vehicle capability and building the MC-12 Project Liberty manned intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance platform, for example.

Although more than 20 years old, many of the F-16C/Ds identified for retirement have plenty of life left in them, particularly if overhauled with modern sensors, communications and weapons. Countries destined to receive these 'new' fighters under generous terms from the US would need to be reliable allies. Potential recipients include Bulgaria, Colombia, Croatia, Indonesia, Iraq, Mexico, Pakistan, the Philippines, Romania and Tunisia.

Even before these latest retirements were announced, Romania and Bulgaria had already received offers of second-hand F-16s. The US offered Bulgaria eight refurbished Block 25 F-16C/Ds in December 2008 to meet a long-deferred fighter replacement requirement. In the case of Romania, the US Defense Security Co-operation Agency (DSCA) notified Congress in May 2008 of a proposed sale of 24 new F-16C/D Block 50/52 and 24 refurbished and upgraded F-16C/D Block 25 aircraft in a package worth some USD4.5 billion.

However, with effects from the economic downturn steadily eroding Romanian defence spending prospects, eliminating the new-build Block 50s in favour of additional older jets may be the only way the country can achieve its stated target of 48 'new' multirole fighters. Even then, Romania may only be able to afford a total of 24 refurbished and upgraded Block 25s plus a smaller number of unaltered Block 25 airframes for training. Romania's current force of marginally effective MiG-21 Lancers is scheduled for withdrawal from service beginning in 2011: a date that cannot realistically be postponed.

For both these countries, used F-16s would serve as an interim capability bridge until economic conditions improve sufficiently to permit the purchase of new fighters. In recent years both were targets of sales campaigns that variously featured the Saab Gripen, Dassault Rafael, Eurofighter Typhoon, Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet and of course new Lockheed Martin F-16s.

Since neither is now likely to be able to afford such massive new defence expenditure, used Falcons may be the only viable option, although the Swedish Air Force is also likely to retire numbers of its older JAS 39A/B Gripens in the near future.

Based on the package for Romania, retired USAF F-16s are likely to be offered at little or no purchase cost, but with the buyer picking up the tab for overhauls, training, delivery, system upgrades and the purchase of new systems such as radars and targeting pods, as well as weapons such as missiles and precision-guided munitions (PGMs). Depending on the extent of chosen upgrades, this could deliver highly capable multirole fighters with a service life of at least 10 years at a fraction of the cost of new models. There would also be a substantial price tag for support infrastructure such as shelters, workshops and stores.

After the successful integration of JAS 39C/Ds into the air forces of Hungary and the Czech Republic earlier this decade, Croatia was widely expected to select the Gripen this year in a competition valued at approximately USD844 million for 12 new fighters to replace ageing MiG-21s. However, this was cancelled in March in the face of national economic pressures. Thus, any offer of used F-16s from the US with generous terms is likely to be well received.

Elsewhere, Iraq is exploring the purchase of a number of new F-16s, but in light of falling oil revenues, could find upgraded older aircraft attractive and more rapidly obtainable. They would be valuable as advanced trainers for pilots transferring to new F-16s and, given Iraqi operational requirements and regional threats, could still perform combat missions as required.

Similarly, Pakistan needs upgraded older F-16C/Ds to replace or supplement even older A/B models. These would serve as a bridge to delivery of new-build Falcons and new fighters under development in co-operation with China.

Tunisia is another potential recipient, with a pressing need to replace 13 elderly F-5s but little cash to draw on.

In Latin America, Mexico has a long-standing requirement to replace a declining fleet of 1970s-vintage F-5s with newer, more capable fighters. While these would primarily perform air defence and air policing missions, including the interception of drug-smuggling aircraft, upgraded F-16s would provide the Mexican Air Force with its first multirole precision attack capability. Upgraded F-16 Block 25s would undoubtedly be attractive to Colombia as well and would provide far greater capability than the current plan to upgrade existing IAI Kfirs. Any F-16 deal with Colombia faces intense scrutiny in the US Congress and would surely ignite regional concerns, particularly in neighbouring Venezuela.

The Philippines is perhaps the country in most need of US assistance with rebuilding its more or less defunct fighter capability. Without substantial US help the Philippines is highly unlikely to ever be able to redress the situation, leaving this vast country in a strategic corner of Asia without a viable air defence or air policing capability, let alone the ability to conduct precision air strikes. Introduction of a small force of upgraded F-16s would immediately improve overall security.

In February 2008,US Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced an offer of six new-build F-16 Block 50/52 Fighting Falcons for delivery to Indonesia from 2010 as part of a package expected to include the overhaul and upgrade of the country's existing F-16A/Bs. Instead, Indonesia opted for the phased introduction of a small force of Su-27 and Su-30 fighters from Russia at a cost of around USD550 million. Nonetheless, replacing the F-16A/Bs with multirole, upgraded Block 25s could be an attractive option.

The F-16C/D Block 25 variants due for retirement were introduced into USAF service from 1984 and a total of 209 were delivered. They were the first F-16s with all-weather, beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile capability and featured the improved AN/APG-68 radar. The fleet was later upgraded to the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220E engine and gained a multirole capability. They are currently flown exclusively by the US Air National Guard and within the active duty Air Education and Training Command.

Jim Dorschner is a JDW Correspondent, based in Washington, DC
 
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yes sir they are indeed a good platform but the problem with Pak_US deal is that it never seems to be meeting the time frame and thus the only worry for me is that we might get these at the time when we will be inducting the FC20s and at that time they wont be worth the money we have invested for some eight years!
Blk52 are good for us only if we get them by 2011-2012 and this do not seems to be happening. although the latest reports are that they will be in PAF colors by 2012 but keeping in mind the previous US-Pal deals iseriously doubt it!

anyways that was a nice article!!

regards!
 
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GO GO GO!! PAF GO FOR ALL THESE F16zzz Seriously DEATHTOOL for IAF if we will get all of thm... and upgrade all of Fighters

Formations F16s, J10Bs, JF17, Mirage WOO!
 
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GO GO GO!! PAF GO FOR ALL THESE F16zzz Seriously DEATHTOOL for IAF if we will get all of thm... and upgrade all of Fighters

Formations F16s, J10Bs, JF17, Mirage WOO!

wake up dude!!!

that is all i want to comment dear ;) ;)

regards!
 
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true sir , plus
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During mlu, The air inlet structure of the Block 10 aircraft will be modified, due to the fact that the current inlet of Block 10 aircraft does not allow for the implementation of hard points to carry equipment such as the Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) pod.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article2.html

Why are you guys talking about block 10? As far as I know, PAF's F-16s are the F-16A/B block 15 which have the inlet hardpoints. There is a picture somewhere of a PAF F-16 with the ATLIS laser designator pod on the starboard side inlet hardpoint.
 
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Why are you guys talking about block 10? As far as I know, PAF's F-16s are the F-16A/B block 15 which have the inlet hardpoints. There is a picture somewhere of a PAF F-16 with the ATLIS laser designator pod on the starboard side inlet hardpoint.

yes what we have are the block 15 of F16! the discussion is about another issue! you may check a few posts and it will be cleared!

regards!
 
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HOW FOOLISH OF US WE ARE STILL HOPING THAT NEW F-16 WILL MAKE THEIR WAY TO PAKISTAN(IT IS JUST AN HOPE.....BUT IN REALITY IT CAN'T HAPPEN SO THEN STOP DREAMING OF IT)

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND I WANT TO ASK ARE WE
RECEIVING NEW BVRMs,RADARS&ENGINES
FROM "TUSAS" COMPANY
IN TERMS OF "MLU UPGRADES"
 
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Why are you guys talking about block 10? As far as I know, PAF's F-16s are the F-16A/B block 15 which have the inlet hardpoints. There is a picture somewhere of a PAF F-16 with the ATLIS laser designator pod on the starboard side inlet hardpoint.

basically i was replying to fatman , with a table showing even block5 entering the mlu programme
 
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HOW FOOLISH OF US WE ARE STILL HOPING THAT NEW F-16 WILL MAKE THEIR WAY TO PAKISTAN(IT IS JUST AN HOPE.....BUT IN REALITY IT CAN'T HAPPEN SO THEN STOP DREAMING OF IT)

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND I WANT TO ASK ARE WE
RECEIVING NEW BVRMs,RADARS&ENGINES
FROM "TUSAS"
IN TERMS OF "MLU UPGRADES"

Hey dude why don't you try to be postive let the time tell if don't get them then damn we don't get them simple as that lets see wat happens lets not speak to quick ! :cheesy::smokin:
 
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HOW FOOLISH OF US WE ARE STILL HOPING THAT NEW F-16 WILL MAKE THEIR WAY TO PAKISTAN(IT IS JUST AN HOPE.....BUT IN REALITY IT CAN'T HAPPEN SO THEN STOP DREAMING OF IT)

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND I WANT TO ASK ARE WE
RECEIVING NEW BVRMs,RADARS&ENGINES
FROM "TUSAS" COMPANY
IN TERMS OF "MLU UPGRADES"
please read the whole thread you will get u answered

I hope this time we will get our F 16 the reasons are the following
1 we got Our 14 F 16 in the past and America was willing to sell us more.
2 America is stuck if Afghanistan they need pakistan and If US is in Afghanistan for next three years by that time we will get them

3 US is giving pakistan military assistance in term of dollar each year they would love to sell their own item
 
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Guys, all the C mockery aside,
what makes you think that if we buy foreign equipment it will run when it is supposed to run ?

Knowing the sophistication of electronics etc, it is more than easy for the US, or any other country to just turn of the equipment when they do not want it to be used.

Like a master control switch ... and there is almost nothing we can do about it
unless we have full ToT.

I think Pakistan missed the ride, when it had a chance to co-develop the avionics for JF-17. it would have opened a world of knowledge to us which we let go in exchange of short sight !
 
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I understand it is cheaper to upgrade the current F-16's but really Pakistan should look at if they already have not acquiring the Su-35. The F-16 is a great aircraft but no match for the Su-35 in a heads up dogfight. And where India already has the Su-35 in service. Pakistan needs the same capability. The only other alternative is the F-35 but it is still years away from mass deployment to other countries and is much more money to buy and maintain.
 
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Dear Thomas,

India does not operate SU-35. They are using SU-30.

At the moment PAF is content with F-16's. Untill JF-17 project is not completed PAF shall not go for another system other than the ones already approved.
 
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Hey dude why don't you try to be postive let the time tell if don't get them then damn we don't get them simple as that lets see wat happens lets not speak to quick ! :cheesy::smokin:

please read the whole thread you will get u answered

I hope this time we will get our F 16 the reasons are the following
1 we got Our 14 F 16 in the past and America was willing to sell us more.
2 America is stuck if Afghanistan they need pakistan and If US is in Afghanistan for next three years by that time we will get them

3 US is giving pakistan military assistance in term of dollar each year they would love to sell their own item
WELL ONE CAN ONLY HOPE AND PRAY FOR THAT
BELIEVE ME AMERICAN CONGRESSMAN WOULDN'T ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN
BUT A DISAPPROVAL OF BUYING AMERICAN FIGHTER JETS BY INDIAN GOVERNMENT IN MRCA COMPETITION
WOULD SERIOUSLY BROUGHT AMERICAN IN THE TABLE OF TALKS TO SELL IT's F-16s TO PAKISTAN​
 
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