Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[abdulbarijan]

I didn't intend to give you sleepless Nights.

You are saying No Technological edge for USAF... read again..U--S--A--F... and that was 2004.

Includes AESA radars with F-15's which they didn't bring, no F& F missiles being outnumbered 4 to1 ... and the one who backed down is the one talking about sleepless nights...way to go.. if IAF is so damn great where was all this greatness when it had the opportunity against a poor non BVR force (or was it at that time?? again... )

Eagle in 70s and Eagle in 2004 is two different things.

Mirage III and F-6 vs F-15 ... (2nd generation radar less jets vs latest 4th gen of the time)

No I don't think JF-17 can have same effect.

Because its Pakistani ofcourse...

Su30mk of China is for strike roles.... Su30MKI other than looks is a totally different planes so those PAF pilot has as much experience as you do by looking MKI in photos or videos.
BVR... when talked of should be considered as missiles which can take out fighters beyond 50km.... If you have such missiles other than Aim120C5 then good for you... IAF has such missiles which be fired 130km away from its target.

SD-10A/B is around 100 Km...

Yeah and what is that BVR.. wait you can't say since its classified....

U bet...LOL!

 

[Last Hope]

AbdulBarijan and Nabil.

Please stop these 'debates' or 'arguments'. These are like going in a circle and I considered this to be the cleanest thread.
Let's stick to our current mission of thread which is future and current F-16 development. Ignore and do not quote.

Thank you and please.

 

[DARKY]

Includes AESA radars with F-15's which they didn't bring, no F& F missiles being outnumbered 4 to1 ... and the one who backed down is the one talking about sleepless nights...way to go.. if IAF is so damn great where was all this greatness when it had the opportunity against a poor non BVR force (or was it at that time?? again... )

USAF F-15 Doesn't feature AESA.. Infact it has the same Radar... they had their missile to score kills.
Yeah being outnumbered against Mig 21 so ?
It had the opportunity but the political situation said otherwise... don't worry they won't keep you waiting for long.

Mirage III and F-6 vs F-15 ... (2nd generation radar less jets vs latest 4th gen of the time)

What difference does it make if you can see your opponent... we are talking of BVR engagements.

Because its Pakistani ofcourse... [/B]

That's your stupid logic/assumption not mine.

SD-10A/B is around 100 Km...[/B]

That's your primary BVR along with Aim120c5.. I was talking of BVR other than primary AMRAAMs.

Yeah In fact I do.

 

[MilSpec]

Actually I find it quite funny, Whenever we hear Indian Top Air Brass, they seem to stress more on projecting numerical superiority than anything else (as if they find refuge in having large ratios).

Numbers on paper or inventory sitting in hangars, wont do much to a IAF formation which may be outnumbered by a PAF formation in limited engagement. In today's day and age it's all about anticipating the opponents move and providing optimal resources. 700 IAF a/c wont fight 400 paf a/c to death.

There is one odd thing I find among few members who claim R77-AE to be inferior to Aim 120 and then in the same breath claim PL12/Sd10 to be comparable to aim 120 although it's based on R77 Rvv-Ae to begin with. funny

 

[SQ8]

USAF F-15 Doesn't feature AESA.. Infact it has the same Radar... they had their missile to score kills.
Yeah being outnumbered against Mig 21 so ?.

the USAF F-15's were equipped with the APG-63 V(3) AESA radar..
Raytheon Company: AN/APG-63(V)3 AESA Radar

But were not allowed to use its full capabilities as part of the RoE's set for the exercises in which is was very evident that the USAF aircraft were to mimic the then PAF.

 

[abdulbarijan]

USAF F-15 Doesn't feature AESA.. Infact it has the same Radar... they had their missile to score kills.
Yeah being outnumbered against Mig 21 so ?
It had the opportunity but the political situation said otherwise... don't worry they won't keep you waiting for long.

Dont forget Mirage 2000 and SU-30 MK and Mig-29's that also participated ur acting as if Mig-21 was the only participant...Be our guest if you have the nerves .... or will you throw in the towel like always in this past decade..

F-15 does feature AESA, APG-63 V(2) to be exact..

What difference does it make if you can see your opponent... we are talking of BVR engagements.

LOL! then why dont we go and and take Bison vs F-22 in a WVR ... what difference does it make if u can see ur opponent right?? regardless of the fact that ur opponent is considered amongst the best in close ranges too ( just like the F-15 was and still is)

That's your stupid logic/assumption not mine.

great so if thats my own assumption why dont you put ur reasoning as to why JFT wont have the same effect if not multiple times more...

That's your primary BVR along with Aim120c5.. I was talking of BVR other than primary AMRAAMs.

when talked of should be considered as missiles which can take out fighters beyond 50km.... If you have such missiles other than Aim120C5 then good for you... IAF has such missiles which be fired 130km away from its target.

Now I dont think anyone would interpret that as " non primary BVRAAM's" in ur response, infact the very missile and range ur boosting about here is one of the primary BVR weapons of India the R-27 which it uses along with the R-77.

 

[umair86]

You are mistaking with numbers 270 MKIs + 42 Super MKIs

Saying 200 operational at the moment is optimistic as they are around say 140 in services while others on order. If there will be over 300 in service than even more issue to keep such an enormous maintenance guzzler operational

 

[IceCold]

It is called a reality check buddy, most of Indian friends are thinking of the PAF on par with what it was during 90s, guess what, its time to wake up and smell the coffee which tastes the same on both sides of the border.

If Indians like to continue to underestimate us, its actually a good thing why are we complaining? i hope their top brass shares the same view too.

 

[DARKY]

Dont forget Mirage 2000 and SU-30 MK and Mig-29's that also participated ur acting as if Mig-21 was the only participant...Be our guest if you have the nerves .... or will you throw in the towel like always in this past decade..

F-15 does feature AESA, APG-63 V(2) to be exact..

I said USAF F-15 don't feature AESA... there are only 18 such F-15Cs which have been more of a TD for the F-15 supplied to South Korea and Singapore which does feature AESA.

What has those Mig 27/Su 30 got to do with F-15 struggling to pick the Mig 21 on its radar... and getting killed in the process.

Its world known who threw the largest towel in the Human History with 90+thousands submitting.

As I said... the Political situation suggested other wise... I can assure you that you'll get what what you have so long wanted.

LOL! then why dont we go and and take Bison vs F-22 in a WVR ... what difference does it make if u can see ur opponent right?? regardless of the fact that ur opponent is considered amongst the best in close ranges too ( just like the F-15 was and still is)

BVR... Beyond Visual Range combat... is what we are talking of.
I know PAF pilots are trained by Aliens and can out run the best maneuverable planes...pull 15Gs.. they are simple out of the world and born with the ability... natural.

great so if thats my own assumption why dont you put ur reasoning as to why JFT wont have the same effect if not multiple times more...

Its of no use since you are blinded... and pre-occupied to think rationally.
Its not what JF-17 would do If... its what it can do.

Now I dont think anyone would interpret that as " non primary BVRAAM's" in ur response, infact the very missile and range ur boosting about here is one of the primary BVR weapons of India the R-27 which it uses along with the R-77.

R-77M is the Primary BVR in IAF.. as is the Aim120C5 in PAF... while PAF adds SD-10 with similar capabilities.. IAF adds Meteor, Derby, Mica, and Already operates R-27 both ER and ET which adds another Dimension to its BVR capabilities... I was not asking what IAF has I was asking what PAF has other than Aim 120C5 or SD-10.. which can be put into BVR category.

 

[fatman17]

I was not asking what IAF has I was asking what PAF has other than Aim 120C5 or SD-10.. which can be put into BVR category.

these 2 should suffice. a BVR is a BVR is a BVR whatever the name.

 

[fatman17]

PL-10 - is the next generation IR-guided missile in the same class as AIM-9X, ASRAAM, A-Darter and IRIS-T.

coming soon at a theatre near you.

A new long-range active radar homing AAM has been under development. Based on some of the PL-12 technology, PL-21 appears similar to British Meteor

there is more in the pipeline, so fret not!

 

[DARKY]

I was not asking what IAF has I was asking what PAF has other than Aim 120C5 or SD-10.. which can be put into BVR category.

these 2 should suffice. a BVR is a BVR is a BVR whatever the name.

The criteria given for a BVR is that it can engage targets beyond 37km... although at 37-50 hardly anything would survive If the opponent has an wide array of MR-LR BVR being fielded along with far superior EW capabilities.

PL-10 - is the next generation IR-guided missile in the same class as AIM-9X, ASRAAM, A-Darter and IRIS-T.

coming soon at a theatre near you.

A new long-range active radar homing AAM has been under development. Based on some of the PL-12 technology, PL-21 appears similar to British Meteor

there is more in the pipeline, so fret not!

Any Chinese missile does not automatically classifies to be used on a Pakistani fighter plane.
You being a think thank must realize that integrating a new BVR to a platform is not a piece of cake....you can make an estimation of the fact... If you see the time taken to equip the JF-17 with its 1st BVR... already 2 squadron is Inducted since 2008(already 4 years).. not a single plane having BVR missiles nor do they have weapon targeting pods.

 

[Windjammer]

Any Chinese missile does not automatically classifies to be used on a Pakistani fighter plane.
You being a think thank must realize that integrating a new BVR to a platform is not a piece of cake....you can make an estimation of the fact... If you see the time taken to equip the JF-17 with its 1st BVR... already 2 squadron is Inducted since 2008(already 4 years).. not a single plane having BVR missiles nor do they have weapon targeting pods.

Not having and not seen or two different kettle of Fish, how can you comment on some products/capabilities that you are obviously oblivious to........ you are even in denial of F-7PG's BVR capability...... recall that, they were inducted in middle of crisis between the two countries, not merely to shoot off PL-8s.

 

[sancho]

It is called a reality check buddy, most of Indian friends are thinking of the PAF on par with what it was during 90s, guess what, its time to wake up and smell the coffee which tastes the same on both sides of the border.

Some Indians do it, just like there are some Pakistanis that thinks only because PAF added a capability that IAF had for a decade, PAF is on par as now. The reality is different and to understand that, you have to look at the facts on both sides and that unbiased! You should try it

 

[alimobin memon]

Not having and not seen or two different kettle of Fish, how can you comment on some products/capabilities that you are obviously oblivious to........ you are even in denial of F-7PG's BVR capability...... recall that, they were inducted in middle of crisis between the two countries, not merely to shoot off PL-8s.

Our Mirages are BVR too , F7pg have pulse doppler of 4th generation and early 4th generation avionics suite that is it is also known as mini f16.
I dont know Indians are always so sure about what they are writing , I think our Air marshal share secrets with them.