Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Dazzler]

but qualitatively we are far better position now ,than past.....of-course squadrons is downed now..... 150 sukhoi's gives more security than 400 mig-21's.... there won't be any war in this decade.... neither pakistan is in that stage nor India...... so im not worried much more ...... but the gap between India and Pakistan will widen from 2018+ onwards...

i have asked this before and got no answer and ask it again, prove your superior quality that you guys brag about all the time. A Quality which PAF lacks AT THE MOMENT, not five years later..

Thanks

 

[Last Hope]

i have asked this before and got no answer and ask it again, prove your superior quality that you guys brag about all the time. A Quality which PAF lacks AT THE MOMENT, not five years later..

Thanks

Nabil, I don't think the quality is being lacked. If a total full-scale war breaks out with 200 Indian jets entering the border at once, then yes. The AIM-120 (C5) is the best Aim-120 produced and has superiority in the region.

 

[danger007]

i have asked this before and got no answer and ask it again, prove your superior quality that you guys brag about all the time. A Quality which PAF lacks AT THE MOMENT, not five years later..

Thanks

I am not comparing PAF inventory quality vs Indian....... never i commented against quality of PAF jets.... please visit BD airforce threads...i supported JF-17 than su-30...... i am talking about quality of IAF jets in past and present...... we don't have air dominance fighter in past we got now ....SU-30mki going to be upgraded into super standard....

i clearly stated their, 150 su-30mki gives more strength to IAF than mig-21...... after 2018 onwards we are going to get MMRCA and FGFA....... so the squadrons will be raised again....... here im talking about quantity wise.....

 

[BATMAN]

Nabil, I don't think the quality is being lacked. If a total full-scale war breaks out with 200 Indian jets entering the border at once, then yes. The AIM-120 (C5) is the best Aim-120 produced and has superiority in the region.

According to red flag exercise SU-30 time between flights was maximum in the all known world.

To put 200 plane in air India need 10-15 hrs. and turn around time of SU30 is even bigger.

I don't think Indians can keep 200 SU-30 in air at any given time.

To reach 200 SU30 benchmark Indians need another 2 years of steady production and if the fall into upgrades than may be by 2020 they can have 200 SU30 in operation. approx.

 

[Darth Vader]

I am not comparing PAF inventory quality vs Indian....... never i commented against quality of PAF jets.... please visit BD airforce threads...i supported JF-17 than su-30...... i am talking about quality of IAF jets in past and present...... we don't have air dominance fighter in past we got now ....SU-30mki going to be upgraded into super standard....

i clearly stated their, 150 su-30mki gives more strength to IAF than mig-21...... after 2018 onwards we are going to get MMRCA and FGFA....... so the squadrons will be raised again....... here im talking about quantity wise.....

MY dear Pakistan is a small Country so We cant Compare with man to man wht Paf is trying their are getng qulty edge to counter wht iaf got yes india is geting some new aircrafts but u can also see the condtn of Pakistan we are stck in the war and terror and our encmy is going down but they paf is trying their best options wht they can get they are tryng to get it its a comprsn btwn allmst every aircraft pak and india got so u can check it http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/182172-comparison-among-f-22a-f-16-j-f-17-su-35-ef-2000-rafale-c.html

 

[Last Hope]

According to red flag exercise SU-30 time between flights was maximum in the all known world.

To put 200 plane in air India need 10-15 hrs. and turn around time of SU30 is even bigger.

I don't think Indians can keep 200 SU-30 in air at any given time.

To reach 200 SU30 benchmark Indians need another 2 years of steady production and if the fall into upgrades than may be by 2020 they can have 200 SU30 in operation. approx.

I was just giving an example and you know it. Even if India sends sixteen Su-30s or any other jets at a time, a maximum of 6 F-16C/D would be scrambled against them with four Aim-120 each.

Indian BVR < Pakistan BVR so here is the leading edge we have. And yes, India will not send 200, or 16 or 8 Su-30s. They will not risk a war with Pakistan.

 

[Dazzler]

I am not comparing PAF inventory quality vs Indian....... never i commented against quality of PAF jets.... please visit BD airforce threads...i supported JF-17 than su-30...... i am talking about quality of IAF jets in past and present...... we don't have air dominance fighter in past we got now ....SU-30mki going to be upgraded into super standard....

i clearly stated their, 150 su-30mki gives more strength to IAF than mig-21...... after 2018 onwards we are going to get MMRCA and FGFA....... so the squadrons will be raised again....... here im talking about quantity wise.....

But you still have not answered my question friend

Where is the qualitative advantage of current IAF fleet over PAF fleet?

 

[MilSpec]

Nabil, I don't think the quality is being lacked. If a total full-scale war breaks out with 200 Indian jets entering the border at once, then yes. The AIM-120 (C5) is the best Aim-120 produced and has superiority in the region.

I hope you do realizw R77 AE-SD and MD, outranges Aim 120 by a significant margin

But you still have not answered my question friend

Where is the qualitative advantage of current IAF fleet over PAF fleet?

Qualitative advantage of IAF, might be, 4.5th generation aircrafts like Su 30 MKI, Mig 29 SMT, Mirage 2000 over the present numbers of F16's and FC1's that you have. This includes new generations of Radars and long range missiles and sensor suites.

According to red flag exercise SU-30 time between flights was maximum in the all known world.

To put 200 plane in air India need 10-15 hrs. and turn around time of SU30 is even bigger.

I don't think Indians can keep 200 SU-30 in air at any given time.

To reach 200 SU30 benchmark Indians need another 2 years of steady production and if the fall into upgrades than may be by 2020 they can have 200 SU30 in operation. approx.

I have worked on SU 30MKI and can fully assure you that time required to put the birds in air is just pure exaggeration. That jack *** from USAF didn't know the difference between turmansky and AL31F.

2017 will see full strength of 272 birds, with rafale being produced in banglaore and nasik re-tooling for PAKFA

 

[umair86]

why there is always a war scenario in discussion why guys over this forum think something else like the sufferings of poor in both in Pakistan and India

 

[Safriz]

dont forget the poor man's airforce.
"cruise missiles".
Pakistan can launch a hoard of cruise missiles alongside fighter jets to compensate for a smaller airforce....

 

[Fieldmarshal]

dont forget the poor man's airforce.
"cruise missiles".
Pakistan can launch a hoard of cruise missiles alongside fighter jets to compensate for a smaller airforce....

bhai which poor man/country has cruise missile in their arsenal? even india is not self sufficient in the field of cruise missile.
cruise missiles are a very expensive piece of equipment which only a few select nations have the know how to manufacture.

 

[ziaulislam]

i think what he means is that india will be able to get to 42 sq around 2020-2025 while pakistan is expected to decrease its squadrons from 26 ..even so our squadron strength is low and a fact that our aircrfts are of light catergery.

if we do maintain our squadrons then i guess the gap would become 1:2 maximum. (400-450 ACs vs 800-900 ACs)
remeber previously india alwalys maintained a number atleast 2.5-3.0X more than pakistan e.g in 1965 and 1971.

but more will depend upon the scenario of engagement.


it seems we arent getting any more F-16, no way in this Obama regime, as whole Pakistan-USA relationship has become politicized and Pakistan has become a scape goat for US failure in Afghanistan.

Taliban take over imminent due to poor policies of US and not engaging the Pushtoons in Afghanistan correctly,relying more on western alliance and Mr Karazi.

 

[sancho]

At present, the IAF is operating 34 fighter jet squadrons, as compared to the 26 operated by the PAF. However, the IAF needs to operate 39.5 squadrons to maintain its superiority over the PAF , due to a wide variety of issues like geographical disadvantage. The squadron strength of the IAF will drop to just 31

PAF Total = 463
IAF Total = 779

your fleet is almost 1.68 times more, problem with India is, it is also 4 times bigger than Pakistan area wise thus giving us the advantage.

The problem with these squad number comparisons is, that it include all fighters, no matter what kind or how capable they are. For example, all the ground attack fighters included in this calculation won't add to air superiority right? Similarly, with AWACS and modern radars on both sides, we can take out all the old gen interceptors without any BVR capabilities too. What's left are the fighters that really would go against each other and here the squad numbers looks more favourable for IAF.
PAF is modernising in a better pace than IAF, but the latter has still some advantages and is already planing ahead.

i have asked this before and got no answer and ask it again, prove your superior quality that you guys brag about all the time. A Quality which PAF lacks AT THE MOMENT, not five years later..

Thanks

Depends on what you want to compare, Saab 2000 Erieye vs A50 Phalcon, F16 B52 vs MKI, C130 vs C130J-30..., in short, PAF today has similar capabilities as IAF, but in lower numbers and compared 1 on 1 with lower capability or quality too. Be it better mid air refueling, satcom, ESM capabilities, radars or EW systems, IRST or other avionics, better ARM missiles, special avionics and systems for the C130Js...

 

[SQ8]

The problem with these squad number comparisons is, that it include all fighters, no matter what kind or how capable they are. For example, all the ground attack fighters included in this calculation won't add to air superiority right? Similarly, with AWACS and modern radars on both sides, we can take out all the old gen interceptors without any BVR capabilities too. What's left are the fighters that really would go against each other and here the squad numbers looks more favourable for IAF.
PAF is modernising in a better pace than IAF, but the latter has still some advantages and is already planing ahead.




Depends on what you want to compare, Saab 2000 Erieye vs A50 Phalcon, F16 B52 vs MKI, C130 vs C130J-30..., in short, PAF today has similar capabilities as IAF, but in lower numbers and compared 1 on 1 with lower capability or quality too. Be it better mid air refueling, satcom, ESM capabilities, radars or EW systems, IRST or other avionics, better ARM missiles, special avionics and systems for the C130Js...

Eventually the question will come down to which force has higher SA, which reacts faster..
Which can get assets to bear on an area faster..
for eg.. if twenty IAF attackers end up having thirty aircraft coming up to meet them..
or fifty aircraft attacking find just four opposing them.
With each side possessing AEW assets.. being aware of each others movements will leave less options for force commanders to plan and co-ordinate strikes..

 

[sancho]

Eventually the question will come down to which force has higher SA, which reacts faster..

Exactly and here I see even advantages for PAF, since they have better AWACS coverage at the moment. Even if the numbers of JF 17 and BVR capable F16s are limited so far, they just need to focus on a good coordination between these assets and if I got it right, you are working in this regard too isn't it? A fast and capable link between AWACS Chinese and Western fighters will be an important key for PAFs defence capabilities.