Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[air marshal]

L-3 Link Simulation & Training to Upgrade Pakistan Air Force F-16 Aircrew Training Devices

(Source: L-3 Link; issued January 19, 2012)

ARLINGTON, Texas -- L-3 Link Simulation & Training (L-3 Link) announced today that it has been awarded a contract modification from the U.S. Air Force to upgrade two Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16C Block 52 Aircrew Training Devices (ATDs) with the company’s new SimuSphere HD-9 visual system display.

This award represents the first use of SimuSphere HD-9 on training devices that will be delivered to a foreign nation.

L-3 Link’s SimuSphere HD-9, which incorporates the full capabilities of the company’s HD World integrated simulation product line, will provide PAF F-16 pilots with an increased level of tactical training realism. High-definition databases, image generators and the SimuSphere HD-9 visual display will combine to create a highly realistic and relevant training environment over a geo-specific visual system database of Pakistan. The F-16C Block 52 ATDs, scheduled for delivery in 2013, will be installed and networked at Shahbaz Air Base.

“This award demonstrates the value that SimuSphere HD-9 will bring to military fast jet training,” said Leonard Genna, president of L-3 Link. “SimuSphere HD-9, combined with the trainers’ overall HD World capabilities, will allow Pakistan Air Force F-16 pilots to gain training credit equivalent to live training.”

SimuSphere HD-9 also provides a low-cost upgrade to trainers currently integrated with L-3 Link’s SimuSphere visual displays, in addition to offering a cost-effective option for any fast jet simulator.

The PAF’s F-16C Block 52 ATDs will support new pilot, pilot conversion and advanced skills training. The trainers will incorporate L-3 Link’s simulated Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System, enabling pilots to practice control of aircraft targeting systems and sensors. In addition, pilots will be able to wear their own night vision goggles when conducting simulated nighttime missions.

The two F-16C Block 52 ATDs will be supported by one mission support system, and each simulator will also have a dedicated instructor/operator station.


L-3 Link is the leading provider of F-16 simulators worldwide. Since the 1970s, the company has delivered approximately 140 F-16 training devices in support of the U.S. Air Force, Air National Guard and 10 foreign nations. L-3 Link Simulation & Training is a world leader in providing total training solutions for operators and maintainers across a wide range of military platforms and air traffic control systems.

The company has delivered military training systems to customer locations throughout North America, Europe, Asia and the Pacific Rim. L-3 Link is headquartered in Arlington, Texas, with key bases of operation in Binghamton, N.Y.; Orlando, Fla.; Oklahoma City, Okla.; Broken Arrow, Okla.; and Phoenix, Ariz.

L-3 Link Simulation & Training to Upgrade Pakistan Air Force F-16 Aircrew Training Devices

 

[Aamir Hussain]

We never took advantage or encashed the dividend from going nuclear -- I wonder why? Our international orientation should have changed from just India to a more wider perspective on our international relations.

The bottom line is that we are debating the efficacy of F-16 when going against the US top line fighters!!! There is something very wrong with the equation here -- are we planning for a doomsday scenario? Or have a death wish that we desperately want to enact -- I wonder why we are so eager to go into a conflict with the lone super-power??? is it a slow brianwash to push for a conflict with US as part of a "Means to an End" game play. I do not know -- but the more I talk to people these days, the stronger my feeling of a single minded eagerness to prepare for the inevitable -- an armed conflict with US!

Let us debate another scenario, let us say all our fighter a/c, by magic, are now non-US supplied, do we seriously think that we can take on the USN, and USAF and hold our own by defeating them in the air??? Let us seriously do a re-check.

I think the debate of going F-16 or JFT or the FC20/J-10 from our perspective is linked with our future foreign policy.

I think that the force structure as envisaged by PAF, given the resources and our current foreign policy limitations, is purely geared up to deal with the threat from the east and nothing more. Therefore, the "F-16" equation is relevant to them and not so obvious to a lot of us as maybe some of the folks are contemplating on taking out Uncle Sam!!! If so, even the J-10 is at thsi pointin time incapable! The only equation is using the nuclear option. But then maybe we want it so.....

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The major problem that our country has had is that we have a habit of forgetting stuff with mere 1-2 F16 handover.

After 1999 why did our foreign policy did not shift to more global perspective. On global stage why do we need to have permission from other nations , prior to engaging into Business, military relations. This is not freedom

When ever we try to enact anything close to a free "decision" be it a gas pipeline or a port like Gwadar , we are looked upon by suspicion , yet we allow other nations to open "Air basis" and hidden CIA offices (Calling these as Embassy extension)

We have Transfer of technology on Fighter jets , Railway engines, Submarines, Frigates and even auto so why do we continue to purchase or attain these assets from others.

In 80's the news use to be in newspapers, that people used to tell government to invest into engines, and technological knowledge yet the government use to decide that no we will purchase these items from USA , as its cheaper and quick "solution"


The decision to acquire "quick" solution is indeed the big problem of our country that we always look for the "easy" way out instead of saying - we will make a stand and "this time" find a permenent solution

No more Master - Slave relation

No sovereign country ever allows bombing on its borders or insider its nation and stay quite never happened in history before


To answer your question can we take on "Any Enemy" regardless of their name , well the whole point of having a free country is that you have a belief that you would

Pakistan needs

a) De-fence Pacts
b) 11,000 ICBM projects
c) Strong Navy
d) 300 new fighter jets on top of JF17 thunder
e) Expansion of military basis

We need a foreign policy to

a) Secure our rights to water
b) Secure our stolen land
c) Raise GDP
d) Do business with countries to get cheaper oil
e) Develop a uninfluenced government
f) Display correct Pakistan Map in world map books / google

Its almost like , we can eat honey - and milk now but we insist on eating stale milk from our fridge because we were told to by someone passing by street

 

[Imran Khan]

The major problem that our country has had is that we have a habit of forgetting stuff with mere 1-2 F16 handover.

After 1999 why did our foreign policy did not shift to more global perspective. On global stage why do we need to have permission from other nations , prior to engaging into Business, military relations.

When ever we try to enact anything close to a free "decision" be it a gas pipeline or a port like Gwadar , we are looked upon by suspicion , yet we allow other nations to open "Air basis" and hidden CIA offices (Calling these as Embassy extension)

We have Transfer of technology on Fighter jets , Railway engines, Submarines, Frigates and even auto so why do we continue to purchase or attain these assets from others.

In 80's the news use to be in newspapers, that people used to tell government to invest into engines, and technological knowledge yet the government use to decide that no we will purchase these items from USA , as its cheaper and quick "solution"


The decision to acquire "quick" solution is indeed the big problem of our country that we always look for the "easy" way out instead of saying - we will make a stand and "this time" find a permenent solution

No more Master - Slave relation

No sovereign country ever allows bombing on its borders or insider its nation and stay quite never happened in history before


To answer your question can we take on "Any Enemy" regardless of their name , well the whole point of having a free country is that you have a belief that you would

Pakistan needs

a) De-fence Pacts
b) 11,000 ICBM projects
c) Strong Navy
d) 300 new fighter jets on top of JF17 thunder
e) Expansion of military basis

wrong wrong wrong

Pakistan need education

better health facilities

stop poking nose in other countries

crush extremism

corruption free

better govt

political changes

F.POLICY changes

end BS in neighbors like iran afg india groups

and finally dont damn make Pakistan a security state it was welfare Islamic state till 1980

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well in any FREE country , a country free of influence , such as Turkey or Iran there are two aspects

1) Civilian Government Internal Policies
2) Foreign Policies

So your point is valid we need schools , hospitals , and roads but you are confusing that with foreign policy every free nation has both these elements as separate entities.

But this is something that has to be done by civilian internal policies it has nothing to do with our foreign policies or national defence

I don't feel that when we talk of independence in our defence or having defence pacts that our internal civilian policies should be confused with these elements


What we need for success of our internal national interest is

a) Higher Pay for civilians
b) Taxation system
c) Lowering of food prices
d) Reduction in exports of food , and raising food prices for stuff being sold to Middle east
while keeping prices low in Pakistan.

Example: Price of Gasoline in Saudia is same as it was 20 years ago not a penny increase


The F16 are part of our foreign policy , but they also effect our civilians
as we decide to overlook CIA bombing or money being funneled into groups like Jandula or god know which people who are doing the bombings in Pakistan on Sui Gas lines etc


Our real enemies are the ones who are supplying money to these people may it be CIA or anyone else

Shut down US embassy and 80% of bombings in Pakistan will be closed with in 3-4 months time

Or get US to sign a pact that if our courts determine a US citizen has killed a Pakistani citizen , we can send a F16 into USA to bomb someone in California and come back .... and lets see what USA would say to such a proposal

We are their EQUALS no ?? or we slaves to US

 

[Aamir Hussain]

There are no "Equals" out there. There is a big difference between haves and have not's. That is hard lesson to digest for most of us. But the hard reality is that to be treated with respect, one has to make some hard choices and above all respect yourself first.

We have been double dealing on almost all areas for now close to three decades and have really made a hash out of it. Others, to a large extent also do the same in the course of interantional politiking, but they do it with carefull caution and review the pressure points and change their "Game" often to adjust to on ground changing situation.We just do not do this. It seems our play book was written somewhere in the late 70's and like our teachers, we keep on teachnig from the same, couple of decade old, notes.

The faster we get out of this "Equal" syndrome the better it is for us.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

To do all this -- first need to realign ourselves. Another list for that needs t obe tackled if we want to really do the things you outlined in your post:

1. Let go of the Jihadi Infrastructure
2. Obssession with India must be ditched
3. From a security oriented state to a development oriented apporach needs to implemented.
4. Reform the education ciriculum to a balanced education.
5. Realign ourselves with those whome we trade with-- they, at present are our lifline.
6. Work to make our societywith more tolerance.

etc.....

 

[fatman17]

pl stick to F16's and not the economy here

 

[Pak_Sher]

This planes should strengthen the PAF. US makes great figther aircraft. PAF should also continue to invest in local programs like the JF-17 and JF-17 Block II.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Extra f16 are not needed ...

 

[Edevelop]

This is why we love F-16s:

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Let the PAF decide as to what they want or do not want. You and I are not competent to give verdicts on that -afterall they have to deliver, we do not!;-)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

A heroine addict never admits they have a problem , but a person who is not addicted can easily see that drugs and bribes are not good for anyone`s health.

PAF job is to protect the airspace not take gifts form enemy

Accepting gifts for F16 is quite disturbing considering what happened just few weeks and months back

So based on that basic principle I can`t admire the F16 specially the 18 recent announcement

 

[umair86pk]

F-16 is an aerodynamics marvel thats why its still in production and has proved a successful program. It was light years ahead of its time when first introduced and still is a great plane with the capablities it offers highly reliable only issue is its manufacturing country which is unreliable and a back stabber.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

AP2009 give solid suggestionson on how to overcome dependance on the F16 and maintain the same quality and force quantity in say,a year? And kindly stop giving stupid analogies which have nothing to do with what we are dicussing.