Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[A1Kaid]

What do you guys think should PAF discontinue the F-16 program? Considering its critically dependent on the whims of the US policy makers.

Or is there still a strategic and technological advantage to get out of this?

 

[Edevelop]

Pakistan is receiving 18 new Block 52+ F-16s is false,It's 14 C/D surplus F-16s from American inventory being delivered to Pakistan alongwith MLU jets and 1 Block 52+ serial no. #10801.

Well either way, we are still receiving 18.

 

[Imran Khan]

US airforce logs more hours than any other airforce. As Santro said, an aircraft spending 10 years in USAF means it spent atleast 20 years in PAF.

even 20 years sir not bad then our old 28 years old .

 

[Dazzler]

After the lost 90s and enlightened 2000s where we saw materialization of JFT project, we should have shelved the F-16 program for good but.....

 

[Imran Khan]

After the lost 90s and enlightened 2000s where we saw materialization of JFT project, we should have shelved the F-16 program for good but.....

its last batch sir let them come we can use them little in peace time and fully if any war time i think its good they give us 14 more and total numbers will get better too.

 

[r0ck]

I think the respectable Think Tanks are looking this from an acute angle. This is causing a bit of a confusion among the masses. The reasons for upgrading / acquiring F16s have been prescribed more in the lines of expert level of ground crew, support staff, pilots, training etc, which obviously make sense. More so, had they just said another word, a lot of the usual questions about such reasons might have been avoided, 'helplessness'. So I'll just enlighten people on my take for the reasons for upgrading / acquiring F16s.

We are helpless, people. We haven't got any other option. We weren't far sighted enough to perceive that we shouldn't place all our eggs in one basket. We didn't think that one day we'll have to bend over so much, even for acquiring shackled versions of the jets which we like to think, in lethality terms, would be on par with equivalent jets of the USAF but at the same time we weren't 100% sure about it either. We trained so, insensibly, much on this platform that there's no going back now. As much as we want to say that we're very good and one of the best on this 'foreign' jet, we are infact now hampered by it's 'foreign'ness.

Nevertheless, we have rectified our shortcomings, and in the coming decade are trying to diversify our 'primary fighter jet' roles. This would not be easy of course. But with good effort we shall accomplish our objective. As always, your support to our cause is pivotal. In the meantime, we are looking to carry on with the 'foreign' jet, so to best utilise our existing resources and models.

With that sorted, I suppose the remainder of the usual questions would involve intruguing inquisitions about this jet just being a fancy paperweight against anyhting western or how can the PAF ensure that even for our traditional adversary this would offer the 'full suite' of electronics, upgraded or otherwise. Well, on that front I haven't got a clue and I don't know anybody who does. But considering it's a military platform provided by the US, it can reasonably be ascertained that this would very much be hampered in certain cases. But then again, we'd just have to live with this disabled jet, even if we never find out where the actual disability is.

I think this is a much wider or sort of comfortable angle to look the situation from.

 

[SQ8]

What do you guys think should PAF discontinue the F-16 program? Considering its critically dependent on the whims of the US policy makers.

Or is there still a strategic and technological advantage to get out of this?

After the lost 90s and enlightened 2000s where we saw materialization of JFT project, we should have shelved the F-16 program for good but.....

The F-16 program was the quickest way to maintain a critical strike ability for our AF.
Our JF's are good but their scope of operations is limited to over or airspace or just over the FLOT.
Till the advent of the ROSE program our F-16's were the only aircraft that were capable of taking the fight into the eastern threat and it is only the F-16's that will still have some hope of a successful strike and a RTB.
Even with the JF-17 batch III which will be a very potent platform(vis a vis the block 52's) the upgraded F-16's we will have are 80 or so assets capable of causing severe damage to the enemy over THEIR territory and coming back to be able to repeat that.

 

[ziaulislam]

i think guys here have to understand one think...no matter what u do the terrorist will strike you, they dont care whats your relationship with the US, they simply want to establish their own law in FATA and adjoining areas..as long as afghn remains a hard location due to US presence terrorism will continue.

so its better option for us to co operate and gain from US relationship rather than fight this menace alonebut that doesnt mean we should surrender ourselves and allow them to do drone attacks.

reason why terrorism still prevail is failure of govt ..govt has absoultely no ban on fertilizer buying or procurement..thus making bombs is a piece of cake..there is no law in FATA thus giving the terrorist a unlimited troops..govt has to change this

it would have been better than PAF had gone for mirages2000 in 80s but now the only viable option is F-16. we cant let go of them. It depends how you look at it, if for you every trade like f-16 one is slavery than every country is a salve of every other country.
pakistan should try to increase its f-16s to about a 100 or so, with good diplomacy we can acheive that ..in my opinion we can even skip j-10 then and go directly to j-2xx use thunder f-16 mix

 

[ziaulislam]

After the lost 90s and enlightened 2000s where we saw materialization of JFT project, we should have shelved the F-16 program for good but.....

actually in musahraf era when war in terror was seemingly a very lengthy war , with changing trends and acceptance of pakistan nuclear programme by west there was little chance of a full scale sanction that would hurt f-16 programme. at that time in 2004 f-16 was the only viable option to counter growing indain strength..the decision was thus made to get f-16s, as there was no other option there.

 

[HAIDER]

Why our nation is so emotional, is our politicians knows how to manipulate them. Our nation really need some mind moderation therapy.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

This is what our countrymen do not understand. They always question -- Were there any suicide bombings before 9/11? As if fundamentalism just spawned in our country the day US troops came into Afghanistan. We were going down this road atleast couple of decades before the event and would still be there couple of decades from now if we do not stop fooling ourselves and realize the mess we have pushed ourselves into.

We can look at things from an acute or a wider angle but the fact remains, ground reality today, t oa large extent, dictates our future. We can start making preperations to hedge our bets - that is good. But once again the fact remains that our top of the line fighter today is F-16 and no other fighter that we can lay our hands in the short while can replace the force with the same quality and quantity in medium term.

We need to manage our relations with other countries not based upon for and against the F-16 but from more wider angel (As you put it). An angle that looks at things through the whole spectrum and not just military and aid related issues.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Haider Sahib, unfortunately it is not just politicians that manipulates our masses but our masses also now love to be manipulated! Most of our folks just do not have the guts to stand up and say the right thing. We have slowly turned into a nation of hypocrites of the highest order. There is a clear "Tazaad" in our words and actions.

To me it seems that our nation is hell bent on committing suicide as a result of acute Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

 

[MastanKhan]

Aamir Hussein,

I don't wonder anymore about how thoughtless my brethren are---this question about ' we didnot have suicide bombings before this'----we can't even decipher that---our quotient of intelligence and reasoning has gone so low---one begins to wonder at the sanity of their minds and thoughts---.

The bombings didnot happen because they were doing it to the others----once you put a lid to their activities and tried to control them---they turned their venom on you---.

Which brings out an old saying---when you want to cut the relationship of the past dealing---you better slay you 'blood hounds' when you had the oppurtunity---otherwise they will come and hound you the only way they know how.

We went on this road the day we condoned suicide bombings---decades ago---we considered it to be okay as long as it is doneto the opponent---not realizing that once this viscious beast is un-leashed---it will turn on you in a moment of wild rage.

 

[Jango]

There is a clear "Tazaad" in our words and actions.

Sohail Warraich, 'kiya yeh khula tazaad nhn'!!!

 

[Pfpilot]

I still think a huge problem with our nation remains our complete lack of flexibility. Friendships and adversaries are merely byproducts of self serving interests and that makes the world a very dynamic place.
Pakistanis remain completely obsessed with the Indian threat; one which the introduction of nukes eliminated in its worst case scenario. More so, as a nation destined for global relevance, they have little interest in jeopardizing their long term prosperity to fight a war with a nation(Pakistan) that will probably destroy itself long before any enemy tries, if we continue down this path.
Our focus needs to be on the real problem facing us: terrorists of all ideologies must be destroyed; there is no such thing as a good terrorist and a bad terrorist...in the end, when they can't kill others anymore, they will start killing us. When one is indoctrinated into a killing machine, these people will hardly go back to a peaceful life after the US leaves Afghanistan. So regardless of the relevance f-16s have against India, we need them against the terrorists. The more high tech the equipment, the less likely our people will die at the hands of these misguided souls. Who cares if they are unlikely to be relevant against India; we need to worry about keeping our nation alive, because right now, it is on life support.