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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

The MLU will be exactly like the blk 52 except for 3 things
- No change in thrust
- No enhanced range/weight

and probably one more thing that is not coming to my mind right now.

Otherwise, it will be upgraded with the same features as a blk 52. Same radar (APG68v9), same avionics, ECM, etc.

Not the exact something or else LM would be stupid to add more weight on the dorsal spine of the twin seater. MLU M3 is going to be a mixer of Block 15 52 and 52+. the amazing this is that PAF is going to be using same radar as IDAF latest F-16s.
 
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I have a few questions.

Will F16MLU have the following features ?

1. Conformal Fuel Tanks
2. Extended Dorsal Spine
3. Advanced RWR and Missile Approach warning receiver as present on the new Bl52's Rudder.
4. Improved Gun Port
5. On-board Oxygen Generation

Also i want to know if the "new" F16 Bl52's have on-board oxygen generation opposed to carrying oxygen bottles.

Regards,
Sapper
 
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I have a few questions.

Will F16MLU have the following features ?

1. Conformal Fuel Tanks
2. Extended Dorsal Spine
3. Advanced RWR and Missile Approach warning receiver present on the new Bl52's Rudder.
4. Improved Gun Port
5. On-board Oxygen Generation

Also i want to know if the "new" F16 Bl52's have on-board oxygen generation opposed to carrying oxygen bottles.

Regards,
Sapper
what so ever for these,but what f16 must have is different refueling prob so it can be refilled by IL 78.

CFT and drosal spin should be included.but im not confirmed.

for ur third question its answer is YES.

dont know about 4 n 5:undecided:
 
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MLU's will have

Advanced Hazeltine IFF

On board Oxygen Generation System (even our rose mirages and jf-17 have them)

Improved Gun port

MLUs will not have

CTFs

Dorsal Spine for additional avionics and EW equipment
 
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so it is better than aesa or same configuration

F16s AESA radar is designated APG80 which is used aboard F16E/F of UAE air force.

APG80 is far superior to APG68v9 radars aboard Pakistani and Israeli F16s.

Regards,
Sapper
 
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apg 80 is better than aesa radar or not
AN/APG-80 is an AESA RADAR, so what do you mean?

The United Arab Emirates funded the development of the APG-80 for their Block 60s. F-16 Block 50/52 and MLU come with AN/APG-68, a Mechanically Steered Array RADAR, which is not as capable as the APG-80. However, older Block F-16s can be retrofitted with an AESA RADAR known as the Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) RADAR. All these RADARs are provided by Northrop Grumman, who were part of the original F-16 development team as secondary contractors for General Dynamics.

Pakistani Block 52 and MLU will have the AN/APG-68, which is a high-end MSA RADAR. Our best hope for an ESA equipped fighter is the FC-20 with, most likely, a PESA system. PAF's ERIEYE also an AESA RADAR, so until that time where we get an ESA, we will rely on networked detection more than individual.

Now, I hope that helps.

Here are some links for more research:
- http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/sabr/index.html
- http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/apg68/assets/APG68.pdf
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/APG-68
- http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/f16aesaradar/index.html
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/APG-80
 
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Will our mlu f-16's be able to be fitted with the cft's?
 
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Will our mlu f-16's be able to be fitted with the cft's?

I dont think Paf MLU f16 will be fitted with CFT
Improvement in F16 MLU will be

Internally

The improvements are as follows:

- Cockpit. To be updated to F-16C/D block 50/52 standard. New and relocated instruments as well as new Head-Up Display (HUD).
- Navigation. The aircraft receive Global Positioning System (GPS).
- Radar. Increased effective range.
- Computer. Increased capacity and speed.
- Electronic warfare.

Externally


- 4 IFF antennas in front of the cockpit (called bird slicers).
- New instrument panel, camera arrangements near the HUD, and new HUD.
- New and rearranged landing/taxi lights.
- Modified wing pylons on stations 3 and 7 (the middle pylons under the wings).
- Replacing of antennas.
 
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Most of the avionics that will be installed during MLU is existing hardware that is modified for use in the F-16. The Modular Mission Computer however is designed especially for the F-16. This will undoubtedly be one of the most important computers of the F-16 once MLU is completed.


Modular Mission Computer

The most important item of the Mid Life Update package is the Texas Instruments Modular Mission Computer (MMC) which is the key to providing new capabilities such as sensors and weapons, improved pilot-vehicle interface and pilot aiding. Subcontractors are Terma, Nea Lindberg and Signaal. This computer consists of line-replaceable modules (LRMs) based upon several MIPSCO R3000 32-bit RISC microprocessors which will run the ADA high-order language. An object-oriented design will reduce the lead times for new software and will improve the software maintenance. Other features include multiplex bus modules, avionics display processor, display driver and power supplies. The MMC will be the key to driving towards fleetwide commonality of system modes and software.

It will replace three components, namely the computers currently in use for the Expanded Fire Control Computer (XFCC), the Head Up Display Electronics Unit (HUD EU or HUD symbol generator), and the Stores Management System's Expanded Central Interface Unit (XCIU). The MMC will take up 42% less volume in the aircraft, weights 55% less and consumes 37% less electrical power. Of the 24 slots available in the computer, ten will be used for future growth.


Fire Control Radar


The Westinghouse AN/APX-66(V2) Fire Control Radar (FCR) will be equipped with an completely new signal data processor. It allows a track-while-scan mode for up to ten targets as well as a six-on-six AIM-120 AMRAAM capability. Other features include a 25% improvement in detection and tracking range, an enhanced Doppler Beam Sharpening mode (DBS), enhanced air-ground and ground mapping modes, a medium resolutions DNS, an enhanced ECCM, and a color display compatibility. The MLU kit and the receiver will also have an 40% improved reliability over previous versions.

Physical parameters :

* Volume : 3.43 cu. ft.
* Weight : 261.5 lb
* Power : 3285 V/A AC (Max), 155 Watts DC (Nominal)
* Cooling : 11.3 lb/min a 27degr. C


Advanced IFF

The Hazeltine APX-111(V1) Advanced Identification Friend-or-Foe system (AIFF) with increased range performance (100 Nm) will operate via four (rather striking) antennas mounted on the upper forward fuselage in front of the canopy. These "bird slicers", more formally known as Upper Interogator Fuselage Mounted Antenna (FMA) Array, will be the most noticeable exterior change of the Mid Life Update.

The benefits of this AIFF system will be the support for BVR weapons delivery in excess of Radar/Missile limits and the enhanced situational awareness which reduces the chance of a fratricide.



Cockpit displays and indicators



Wide Angle Conventional Head Up display

The new Wide Angle Conventional Head Up Display (WAC HUD) manufactured by GEC Marconi Avionics will increase readability and pilot comfort, offers a wider field of view than the current HUD and adds a raster capability and support for night operations. This HUD is also FLIR and EEGS compatible.
Multi-Function Display

The Multi-Function Display (MFD) set, manufactured by Honeywell, include two 10cm x 10cm (4in x 4in) color active matrix liquid crystal multi-function displays, which will replace the current single monochrome Radar Electro/Optical Indicator Unit (REO-IU) and the Stores Control Panel (SCP) - the Stores Management System display. Both displays will increase the pilot's Situational Awareness drastically and will therefore contribute to increased flight safety.
Enhanced Upgraded Programmable Display Generator

An Enhanced Upgraded Programmable Display Generator (EUPDG), manufactured by Honeywell and Nea Lindberg in Denmark, will support the two color MFD's, allowing the pilot to set up to twelve display programs. One of them includes a color Horizontal Situation Display, which will be, provide the pilot with a God's eye view of the tactical situation. Inside is a 20MHz, 32-bit Intel 80960 Display Processor and a 256K battery-backed RAM system memory. The color graphics controller is based on the T.I. TMS34020 Raster Graphics Chipset.


Audio/Video Recorder

Also new is the Cockpit Television System manufactured by Telemetrics. The current Airborne Video Tape Recorder (AVTR) will be replaced by a TEAC color audio visual tape recorder. Head Up Display images as well as the images of the Multi Function Displays will be selectable for recording which is great for the debriefing of missions.


Helmet Mounted Display


A helmet-mounted display (HMD) is not part of the present configuration, but program director Philip Schwab believes that the European operators may decide to incorporate it if the program continues to progress well. Lockheed Martin and Honeywell have demonstrated the use of the HMD, combined with DTS, to allow the pilot to designate targets of opportunity simply by placing an HMD pipper on the target. EPAF and USAF are to pursue a five-nation HMD program, related to the introduction of the ASRAAM, the Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile, somewhere in the next century. Software and hardware modifications are already being studied by a cockpit review team and both space and wiring is already being accounted for in the current MLU.

Side stick controller and throttle grip


The side stick controller (manufactured by Lear Astronics Corporation) and throttle grip are Block 50 unit models and will replace the current Block-10/15 stick grips. Both throttle and stick will be equipped with various controls, for an increased variety of functions, including VHF and UHF communications, IFF interrogation, Improved Data Modem operation, secondary flight controls (speed brakes), night vision cockpit blackout selection (NVIS Switch) and boresighting as well as slaving of missiles (now only selectable via the cues of the Stores Control Panel, which requires hands-off-throttle, head-down operation).


Modifications & Upgrades / Other features


Improved Data Modem


The Improved Data Modem (IDM), developed by the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory and built by Symetrics Inc., will be used to exchange data of various systems and targets with other aircraft (e.g. F-16, A-10, AH-64 or E-8 JSTARS) or with a ground station. Provisions have been made for the Link 16 Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS).

Electronic Warfare Management System

An Electronic Warfare Management System (EWMS) developed by Terma Elektronik AS in Denmark provides centralized EW control for entire EW suite : management of threats (RWR), ANQ pods and advanced chaff/flare systems.

Miniaturized Airborne GPS Receiver

MAGR, Miniaturized Airborne GPS Receiver built by Rockwell-Collins Avionics & Communications Division, operating via an E-Systems antenna. It provides accurate position, velocity and time to support navigation, steering and weapon delivery. This system is smaller and lighter than the Block 40/50 receiver (RCVR 3A), consumes less power but delivers the same performance.

Digital Terrain System

A Digital Terrain System (DTS), which uses the British Aerospace Systems & Equipments (BASE) Terprom system hosted on a Fairchild Defense memory module (128kb). The DTS provides precise navigation (in conjunction with the Rockwell/E-Systems GPS) and performs a number of safety and situational-awareness functions in low-level flight. This does not imply however, that the F-16 will be capable of automatic terrain following. The (former Block-10/-15) F-16 aircraft does not have a digital flight control system, so the system cannot be linked directly to the aircraft's Flight Control System. The pilot will be following the DTS advice manually by flying on the Flight Path Marker in the HUD. The system is as accurate as the accuracy of the maps being used, so this requires extremely accurate maps of the area.

Cockpit Layout

The cockpit layout will be the one of the F-16C Block-40/50. However, unlike the Block-40/50 aircraft, the MLU F-16s will be equipped with color displays. The cockpit lighing will be compatible with Night Vision Imaging System (NVIS) and all visible surfaces will be painted black. The Night Vision goggles are deactivated in the HUD field-of-view to allow inhibited HUD viewing.
Provisions for recce pods


Provisions for the Microwave Landing System

This system will be incorporated in the F-16 structure. The system will not be standard equipment on the F-16 and the particular countries have to by it seperately. Although not standard, the system will enhance flight safety by adding an MLS, which can guide the pilot through adverse weather conditions.
 
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Will our mlu f-16's be able to be fitted with the cft's?
There is a report presented to the US House Committee on Foreign Affairs by Vice Admiral Jeffrey Wieringa of the US Navy that is a must read for anyone who wants to know more about the F-16 MLU and Block 52s offered to Pakistan. It has been posted on this thread many times, but your best bet is to Google it.

This excerpt answers your question:
While many of the avionics systems and capabilities are common with the new Block 52s and the MLU, some significant differences remain between the MLU F-16 Block 15s and the new PAF Block 52s: there are no improvements to the Block 15s mission range and loiter time; there are no engine improvements; and, there are no improvements to payload capacity.

The only way we can extend the loiter-time or mission range of our F-16s is through Aerial Refueling. However, because the F-16s current refueling system is incompatible with the refueling system procured by Pakistan, this is not a possibility. Can we integrate the F-16s with customized refueling system? Possibly, but the move night be objected to since it would require some reverse engineering on the PAF's part.

Now, pretty much every question you guys have has been answered by people far more knowledgeable than I am before. Before posting any more questions, do a search. If you don't find anything, then go ahead and post the question, and we will be more than happy to answer to the best of our abilities.

Edit
Here is the House Committee report:
US House Committee on Foreign Affairs by Vice Admiral Jeffrey Wieringa of the US Navy
Absolute must read for anybody interested in Pakistan's F-16 Block 52 procurement and Mid-Life Upgrades.
 
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i have no interest in becoming your family member


sir i just tried to shared my sense of humor.....i thought i would bring some comic in the environment
please understand it in that way............

Night rider
Even humour sometimes involving parents or family is a bad idea. It only needs one to be in a bad mood and before you know it, you have a raging argument over nothing. So please keep family and personal comments out of it.
Kindest regards
Araz
 
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