Pakistan: Dual Nationals Polling

[PDF]

Irrespective of expats and dual nationals literally financing and supporting the country through remittances and other activities etc, my point is that when they take other nationality, they commit an oath to be loyal to that country and in case of British and other commonwealth nations, they commit loyalty to a Monarch; which in my personal opinion is the wrong.

I only want to know how others feel about it from a purely technical aspect. I am not debating whether Pakistani nationality is of any value or not, but simply wondering where to they stand?

 

[Imran Khan]

not everyone but high rank officials and politicians military officials have

 

[PDF]

not everyone but high rank officials and politicians military officials have

In govt, even those with only Pakistani nationality can be sell outs.

I am talking in general sense as to people who overtly proclaim loyalty in both written and verbal form of giving their loyalty to another state.

 

[PakCan]

In govt, even those with only Pakistani nationality can be sell outs.

I am talking in general sense as to people who overtly proclaim loyalty in both written and verbal form of giving their loyalty to another state.

majority can be and are loyal to the state.

When you move away from your country, you realize the importance of it. We will always be called Pakistani Canadian. Our religion will always make us stand out and that will always will make us want a strong Muslim country.

And as you pointed out, our generals who serve the country for 30+ years are not loyal but I bet majority of overseas Pakistani are more loyal than these generals.

 

[villageidiot]

I think formally pledging loyalty doesn't mean anything.

There's a thread on OBL raid going on and one of the things being mentioned is that a Pakistani intelligence official gave the intel on OBL to CIA. Not only that's a Pakistani national, but a senior officer (probably uniformed) who swore an oath on top of being a citizen.

On the other hand, you have almost 1 crore expats most of whom feel for Pakistan.

So, formal pledge doesn't mean anything. It can change based on the incentives offered.

 

[PDF]

So we have both only Pakistanis and dual nationals breaking pledge by not bein completely loyal only to Pakistan?

Is that what you are implying?


My argument is that dual nationals break Oath in either cases, if they are more loyal to Pakistan, then they are breaking formal or informal pledge of the other state and vice versa.

I think formally pledging loyalty doesn't mean anything.

There's a thread on OBL raid going on and one of the things being mentioned is that a Pakistani intelligence official gave the intel on OBL to CIA. Not only that's a Pakistani national, but a senior officer (probably uniformed) who swore an oath on top of being a citizen.

On the other hand, you have almost 1 crore expats most of whom feel for Pakistan.

So, formal pledge doesn't mean anything. It can change based on the incentives offered.

 

[Imran Khan]

In govt, even those with only Pakistani nationality can be sell outs.

I am talking in general sense as to people who overtly proclaim loyalty in both written and verbal form of giving their loyalty to another state.

i don't think in general not everyone is two faced .in fact i wish they learn from 1st world and help pakistan to grow .

 

[Maula Jatt]

Dual nationals should not have voting rights,
should be allowed to hold Public office (so we can tap into our diaspora potential)
Many are loyal but for a bunch of ems their priority is not Pakistan

 

[villageidiot]

So we have both only Pakistanis and dual nationals breaking pledge by not bein completely loyal only to Pakistan?

Is that what you are implying?


My argument is that dual nationals break Oath in either cases, if they are more loyal to Pakistan, then they are breaking formal or informal pledge of the other state and vice versa.

I am saying that an oath/formal declaration doesn't mean a damn thing.

For example, I'd love to get a citizenship in some developed western country,( preferably an anglophone one). But, my reasons will be economic. It doesn't mean I'll voluntarily join their wars, or I'll suddenly be more willing to harm Pakistan and work against it's interests than however much I am now, as a Pakistani citizen only.

 

[PDF]

I am saying that an oath/formal declaration doesn't mean a damn thing.

For example, I'd love to get a citizenship in some developed western country,( preferably an anglophone one). But, my reasons will be economic. It doesn't mean I'll voluntarily join their wars, or I'll suddenly be more willing to harm Pakistan and work against it's interests than however much I am now, as a Pakistani citizen only.

What is your opinion on SOLEMN oaths as a Muslim be it written, spoken or otherwise?

Do you believe that for any economic or other selfish reasons, their has to be no Kuffara for any such Pledges etc?

(n case you are a non-muslim, please reply keeping in view your own religious teachings and ignore the Islamic lens)

majority can be and are loyal to the state.

I am particularly interested in the case where the loyalties are tested and comes into conflict between both stateS.

 

[313ghazi]

Irrespective of expats and dual nationals literally financing and supporting the country through remittances and other activities etc, my point is that when they take other nationality, they commit an oath to be loyal to that country and in case of British and other commonwealth nations, they commit loyalty to a Monarch; which in my personal opinion is the wrong.

I only want to know how others feel about it from a purely technical aspect. I am not debating whether Pakistani nationality is of any value or not, but simply wondering where to they stand?

I didn't take an oath. I filled out a form and got a passport. Even if I had done - who cares? People like us are only here for economic opportunity. You do what you have to do to get ahead in life.

Also who said loyalty to a state should be exclusive to one state? If you're parents get divorced should you have to choose between them? If you marry twice is your affection compromised?

If you don't live in Manchester should you really support Manchester United? Am I allowed to have a favourite between two world cup finalists if I don't live in either country?

It's silly - it misses the point.

Worry about those who pin medals on thier chest and betray this country - or those who take oaths to govern it and then betray it.

The only time dual nationality should be an issue is when taking public office as it is a potential conflict of interest.

 

[PakFactor]

In govt, even those with only Pakistani nationality can be sell outs.

I am talking in general sense as to people who overtly proclaim loyalty in both written and verbal form of giving their loyalty to another state.

Loyalty goes both ways -- the receipt (Pakistan) also needs to show it towards its dual citizens.
But if someone approached me to spy on Pakistan for monetary gains, I would refuse. Still, it's also because my financial standing can't say anything about those below me.

 

[PDF]

Also who said loyalty to a state should be exclusive to one state? If you're parents get divorced should you have to choose between them? If you marry twice is your affection compromised?

You do not chose your parents. But you can surely chose getting dual nationality or not.

I didn't take an oath. I filled out a form and got a passport. Even if I had done - who cares? People like us are only here for economic opportunity. You do what you have to do to get ahead in life.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/258235/oathofallegiance.pdf

Citizenship ceremonies

When you need to attend a citizenship ceremony - how to book, how much it costs, what happens during the ceremony.

www.gov.uk

Sir, do you know oath and solemn pledges can be in written form too? Whenever I have to even renew my Pakistani Passport, I have to pledge I am a Muslim who also believes Muhammad (S.A.W) as the last Prophet. Perhaps if you can study the form you filled & signed and get to the post?

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

True loyalty is natural, inherent and innate to one's being. Self interest is not taught...it is natural... though it can be played or tinkered with...
Further the interest of one's kin, siblings, parents or concern/benefit of posterity.

Once, this natural, inherent or innate disposition is tinkered with people canbe misled in doing anything really... whichever direction the carrot is dangled. One of the major concerns in Pakistan is the corruption of elite. Did anyone ever question who do they do it for?

Themselves, their own!

Why don't or can't you?
Why do you choose or elect them?
Why do YOU leave your own kin for rhetoric?
Why don't you seek unity with yourself and your kin for your benefit?
Don't you know what ails or concerns you?


It is from this truth and understanding that we establish the Misaaq, the covenant, among individual, family tribe and all surrounding and interacting with them...
so, when you see someone taking advantage of their position or restraining himself, question the disposition the covenant!

Establishing on the above, people will maintain bonds of kinship in spite of distances and borders. Here Pakistan will have to keep itself relevant for its inhabitants... as they assume and have been led to believe they their benefit lies in looting the natives, resources of the land and moving themselves and kin in foreign lands... where masters live and where their descendents shall prevail. It is the immediate benefit and established orders that dictates direction. It is no shortage of funds nor dearth of manpower that plagues the infrastructure of Pakistan... instrumentation of resources or direction of nation...

So, yes ask wrong questions get wrong answers.

 

[313ghazi]

You do not chose your parents. But you can surely chose getting dual nationality or not.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/258235/oathofallegiance.pdf

Citizenship ceremonies

When you need to attend a citizenship ceremony - how to book, how much it costs, what happens during the ceremony.

www.gov.uk

Sir, do you know oath and solemn pledges can be in written form too? Whenever I have to even renew my Pakistani Passport, I have to pledge I am a Muslim who also believes Muhammad (S.A.W) as the last Prophet. Perhaps if you can study the form you filled & signed and get to the post?

I filled out the same form in Pakistan. I'll find the British form for you.

My point is though - what harm is there in my swearing loyalty to two different governments?

Every oath for a Muslim has a limit. The limit is halal and haram. If Pakistan legislated you had to do something haram - would you do it? I don't think any of us would.