Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain

[SQ8]

Allright you two, Stick to the topic.. Set an example..

@Dillinger

I think the DARIN upgrades have made the JAGs more survivable so they might have it better, but the fact they are going to be into CAS and logistics strikes.. they will be hit. Im not too sure about the MKI's but the hardest hit will be the 32nd, 18th and 34th wings. 7th wing will take hit as well but not as bad as the former.
However, this is only in case of an all out brawl..

In the skirmish scenario, we are more likely to see M2Ks and MKIs slug it out as compared to any other aircraft.

 

[Dillinger]

Allright you two, Stick to the topic.. Set an example..

@Dillinger

I think the DARIN upgrades have made the JAGs more survivable so they might have it better, but the fact they are going to be into CAS and logistics strikes.. they will be hit. Im not too sure about the MKI's but the hardest hit will be the 32nd, 18th and 34th wings. 7th wing will take hit as well but not as bad as the former.
However, this is only in case of an all out brawl..

In the skirmish scenario, we are more likely to see M2Ks and MKIs slug it out as compared to any other aircraft.

M2Ks are beautiful indeed, worth the money too. Btw what do you make of Sir Fatman's contention that there was no deal signed on to begin with?

 

[Hyperion]

Yara, don't have any info on J-10 contracts, therefore better not to comment. Besides, I'm following the convo between Oscar & Dilli!

Oi @Hyperion you haven't posted anything on topic ?

 

[SQ8]

M2Ks are beautiful indeed, worth the money too. Btw what do you make of Sir Fatman's contention that there was no deal signed on to begin with?

He is correct, there was never any contract signed. In the most simple of words, there were showroom visits and occasional "friendly advice" inputs(into the J-10B program) but nowhere was there a firm contract other than an intent of purchase.

M2Ks are beautiful indeed, worth the money too. Btw what do you make of Sir Fatman's contention that there was no deal signed on to begin with?

He is correct, there was never any contract signed. In the most simple of words, there were showroom visits and occasional "friendly advice" inputs(into the J-10B program) but nowhere was there a firm contract other than an intent of purchase.

 

[Armstrong]

Yara, don't have any info on J-10 contracts, therefore better not to comment. Besides, I'm following the convo between Oscar & Dilli!

I'm talking about the same conversation !

Are we in as bad a condition was it is being stated ?

 

[Hyperion]

If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, sounds like a rat - what do you think - of-course it is!

Or in Urdu: "Koi shakk"?

I'm talking about the same conversation !

Are we in as bad a condition was it is being stated ?

 

[Zabaniyah]

Why would PAF need J-10B if they have the JF-17 in the first place? Doesn't make sense. The JF-17 has good development potential. Their current fleet of F-16 C/D's are more proven in their operations, and perhaps a more effective system compared to the J-10B.

If I were them, I'd focus on fifth gens in the long term. By the way; if I'm not mistaken, I think the J-20 would only be used by the PLAAF.

 

[Tameem]

I think I put this before elsewhere in a post you might remember, but in a nutshell the balance of power remains tilted 30:70 in India's favour. Both the upgraded M2K and the UPG 29 are extremely potent platforms. This combined with the Su-30 force gives India a front line fighter force that is easily capable of ensuring that at least 50% of its objectives are met without much resistance.
However, the other force factors.. such as the DARIN Jags, Mig-27's and remaining Bisons arent going to be left unused in conflict.. although I suspect that like the Hunters and Su-7s in the 71 conflict.. it will be these that will bear the brunt of the losses.

That being said, If the JF-17 force and F-16 upgrades go through. The balance might remain the same but the method of utilization will make the difference. Regardless of other opinions, I maintain that due to the nature of the border between the two neighbours and the spacing of Air bases... there is lesser multiplier effect of longer range radars and more missiles and greater effect on who can get more assets into the air at the same time; and most importantly the better situational awareness available to the pilots and commanders. Both forces are slowly transitioning to Stand off weapons(Crystal maze, CM-400, etc) which means that neither wants a spat over contested airspace for too long. In either case, with the above the PAF is still at 30:70.. but has the potential to inflict severe losses to the closest Indian military assets and perhaps unacceptable losses when it comes to the older fleet of the IAF.
However, it is still 30:70 and even at (not possible) a 1% for 1% exchange.. a protracted engagement will wipe out the PAF entirely including second line assets such as A-5s. In not just my view(but that of PAF officers themselves) there will be no protracted conflict nor open war as such. Intrusions, skirmishes.. engagements with nearly 1:1 parity are more likely and here the sophistication of equipment along with better SA will determine outcomes.

And on the backdrop of such scenario, we make it absolutely clear to use absolute weapon first as a detarance to any aggression......only that threat making an equilibrium in South Asia conundrums right at this very moment......Right?

 

[That Guy]

What do you mean by other purposes than defending india? What are those other purposes they are afraid of? bombing taliban............

Many things. The US doesn't want PAF to use them to bomb Afghanistan in case of a skirmish, this is an example.

I never said that their train of thought was logical.

 

[Tacticool]

Many things. The US doesn't want PAF to use them to bomb Afghanistan in case of a skirmish, this is an example.

I never said that their train of thought was logical.

US always showed cunning tactics and lack of trust on Pakistan and I don't know why we've wasted 40k lives to them in the name of saving our country, and our country is a hell on earth rather than safe.

Many things. The US doesn't want PAF to use them to bomb Afghanistan in case of a skirmish, this is an example.

I never said that their train of thought was logical.

US always showed cunning tactics and lack of trust on Pakistan and I don't know why we've wasted 40k lives to them in the name of saving our country, and our country is a hell on earth rather than safe.

 

[Viking 63]

Pakistan should keep its option open and excersise no option in the case of USA equipments !!! stay away from these Americans biggest mental wrecks on this planet !!!!

 

[GURU DUTT]

so in the nut shel what its gonna be will PAF have its hands on J10Bs in couple of years or will USA be able to sucsessfully again take PAF on a ride with say a couple ofsquads of old block F16(as gifts for safe passage)

 

[Black Eagle 90]

J-31 will be the most feasible choice for PAF than J-10s; also I would like the PAC to be a program partner for it too...

 

[HariPrasad]

Third-generation fighter jets await export approval - CHINA - Globaltimes.cn

in china is also no good news for j10

Exactly, J 10 is a third generation fighter. I have argued with lots of Chines members but they are hell band to prove it a 4.5 generation fighter.

Now if J10 is a 3rd generation plane according to Chinese Media itself, of what generation the JF 17 is?

I think PAF should go for F 16 for real scaring capability.

 

[Obambam]

Exactly,Now if J10 is a 3rd generation plane according to Chinese Media itself, of what generation the JF 17 is?

More importantly what are the differences between these so called 3rd-4th gen fighters?

PAF have in its arsenal the F-16's so I am sure they know well enough how capable JF-17 are and which "so-called generation" it belongs to.

Being 3th generation doesn't necessarily mean it will be a walk over for 4th gen fighters. Likewise a 5th gen doesn't necessarily mean that it will better than the 4th gen. It will be good in some and worse in others.

Each plane producing country have their own set of designs and criteras to meet, meaning there is no one bill fit all when it comes down to design. When you try and incorporate too much technologies and criterias to fulfill you will result in something like the F-35 (a bulky "supposedly stealth" fighter with ridiculous payload, lacking maneuverability due to its huge fan for VTOL and tiny wings).