Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain

[Tameem]

Can't believe because of just one article So much Discussion. The Jets are coming next year. If the deal was to be cancelled that would have been the case only if The production wasn't even started ! The production has started The jets might get little let that like by end of next year but they are coming.

As I said before if j10 didn't came which is worst scenario which wont happened FYI. But if they won't come then dudes let me make myself clear that JF17 Has all the potential to Carry any EW to Weapon suite that j10 carry The Blueprints are Identical in terms of avionics. There is a consideration of equipping jf17 with J10b style suite. ofcourse it will hit 30-35 million dollar prize tag but it is better than j10 IMHO. J10b if comes good if doesn't come there wont be end of the pakistan. My humple opinion is just focus on upgrading heavily the jf17 and wait for 5th generation j31.

Its just not your humble opinion only but the conventional wisdom actually prevailing even at ordinaries in PDF.......!!

 

[Dillinger]

@Oscar with the J-10 out of the way has there been any progress is finding a solution for the space constraint (for cooling) on the JFs?

 

[帅的一匹]

USA might set up back doors on F16 sold to PAF, those F16 might get malfunction when face IAF for USA' benifits.

 

[Tameem]

USA might set up back doors on F16 sold to PAF, those F16 might get malfunction when face IAF for USA' benifits.

Might be, But the bottom line is, PAF is not ready to puts its scares energy & resources to explore from zero just another platform which is only a stop gap measures for them in the longer run of schemes.

IAF on the other hand finds itself in his own mess now a days.....so we need not to worry exceptionally just for point defense scenario PAF carrying with right at this moment.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar with the J-10 out of the way has there been any progress is finding a solution for the space constraint (for cooling) on the JFs?

No Idea mate, its all speculation until we see some news at the next air show or the like.According to the Horse's mouth the solution as such as been there since 2011(Since that is when I last met him and was last involved in the industry). The question is of investment in greenbacks(apparently now some orange blue backs) and testing time. Although I am at a loss as to what alternative cooling solution could that be that takes up less space and is still adequate for AESA.

 

[Dillinger]

No Idea mate, its all speculation until we see some news at the next air show or the like.According to the Horse's mouth the solution as such as been there since 2011(Since that is when I last met him and was last involved in the industry). The question is of investment in greenbacks(apparently now some orange blue backs) and testing time. Although I am at a loss as to what alternative cooling solution could that be that takes up less space and is still adequate for AESA.

So how do things stand at the moment sans the J-10 and the Rafales in terms of balance of power, in your opinion?

 

[SQ8]

So how do things stand at the moment sans the J-10 and the Rafales in terms of balance of power, in your opinion?

I think I put this before elsewhere in a post you might remember, but in a nutshell the balance of power remains tilted 30:70 in India's favour. Both the upgraded M2K and the UPG 29 are extremely potent platforms. This combined with the Su-30 force gives India a front line fighter force that is easily capable of ensuring that at least 50% of its objectives are met without much resistance.
However, the other force factors.. such as the DARIN Jags, Mig-27's and remaining Bisons arent going to be left unused in conflict.. although I suspect that like the Hunters and Su-7s in the 71 conflict.. it will be these that will bear the brunt of the losses.

That being said, If the JF-17 force and F-16 upgrades go through. The balance might remain the same but the method of utilization will make the difference. Regardless of other opinions, I maintain that due to the nature of the border between the two neighbours and the spacing of Air bases... there is lesser multiplier effect of longer range radars and more missiles and greater effect on who can get more assets into the air at the same time; and most importantly the better situational awareness available to the pilots and commanders. Both forces are slowly transitioning to Stand off weapons(Crystal maze, CM-400, etc) which means that neither wants a spat over contested airspace for too long. In either case, with the above the PAF is still at 30:70.. but has the potential to inflict severe losses to the closest Indian military assets and perhaps unacceptable losses when it comes to the older fleet of the IAF.
However, it is still 30:70 and even at (not possible) a 1% for 1% exchange.. a protracted engagement will wipe out the PAF entirely including second line assets such as A-5s. In not just my view(but that of PAF officers themselves) there will be no protracted conflict nor open war as such. Intrusions, skirmishes.. engagements with nearly 1:1 parity are more likely and here the sophistication of equipment along with better SA will determine outcomes.

 

[Tacticool]

The US is both afraid that Pakistan will use it to help China's aviation industry progress and that PAF will use it for other purposes than defense against India. This is why the US has regular inspections of Pakistani F-16s and was a high priority condition to get the block 52s. The nice thing about China is that as long you promise not to share it's technology without permission, it doesn't care what you use it's weapons systems for.

What do you mean by other purposes than defending india? What are those other purposes they are afraid of? bombing taliban............

 

[Armstrong]

I think I put this before.............determine outcomes.

Whats the 'operational' solution to this disparity ?

Would a better & more robust Air Defense, than we currently have offset, the disadvantage that you talk about ?

 

[Dillinger]

I think I put this before elsewhere in a post you might remember, but in a nutshell the balance of power remains tilted 30:70 in India's favour. Both the upgraded M2K and the UPG 29 are extremely potent platforms. This combined with the Su-30 force gives India a front line fighter force that is easily capable of ensuring that at least 50% of its objectives are met without much resistance.
However, the other force factors.. such as the DARIN Jags, Mig-27's and remaining Bisons arent going to be left unused in conflict.. although I suspect that like the Hunters and Su-7s in the 71 conflict.. it will be these that will bear the brunt of the losses.

That being said, If the JF-17 force and F-16 upgrades go through. The balance might remain the same but the method of utilization will make the difference. Regardless of other opinions, I maintain that due to the nature of the border between the two neighbours and the spacing of Air bases... there is lesser multiplier effect of longer range radars and more missiles and greater effect on who can get more assets into the air at the same time; and most importantly the better situational awareness available to the pilots and commanders. Both forces are slowly transitioning to Stand off weapons(Crystal maze, CM-400, etc) which means that neither wants a spat over contested airspace for too long. In either case, with the above the PAF is still at 30:70.. but has the potential to inflict severe losses to the closest Indian military assets and perhaps unacceptable losses when it comes to the older fleet of the IAF.
However, it is still 30:70 and even at (not possible) a 1% for 1% exchange.. a protracted engagement will wipe out the PAF entirely including second line assets such as A-5s. In not just my view(but that of PAF officers themselves) there will be no protracted conflict nor open war as such. Intrusions, skirmishes.. engagements with nearly 1:1 parity are more likely and here the sophistication of equipment along with better SA will determine outcomes.

Not only wipe out the PAF but also every single Jag and Mig below the 29s. Not to mention even the Flankers will suffer casualties (maybe even heavy) since any foray into Pakistani territory will have to contend with a mix of interceptors (old and new) backed by AEW&C. Stand-off weapons indeed are going to be the go to solution for both nations, in fact the IAF has been salivating over the prospect of the ALRCM coming on line in 2-3 years. I am guessing the PAF will be looking at the Babur air launched derivative, speaking of which it is less Tomahawk and more Korshun.

 

[Armstrong]

Not only wipe out the PAF but also every single Jag and Mig below the 29s. Not to mention even the Flankers will suffer casualties (maybe even heavy) since any foray into Pakistani territory will have to contend with a mix of interceptors (old and new) backed by AEW&C. Stand-off weapons indeed are going to be the go to solution for both nations, in fact the IAF has been salivating over the prospect of the ALRCM coming on line in 2-3 years. I am guessing the PAF will be looking at the Babur air launched derivative, speaking of which it is less Tomahawk and more Korshun.

Chal ja kar CFA ka purrr !

Result aaneiii peiii naaa teriii sariii Tomahawks, Baburs aur Korshuns nikal jaiiin giii !

 

[Dillinger]

Chal ja kar CFA ka purrr !

Result aaneiii peiii naaa teriii sariii Tomahawks, Baburs aur Korshuns nikal jaiiin giii !

Lets not go astray, Oscar's been dealing with a rash of deluded posters today, he's probably already in a sour mood. He catches a whiff of us dogging it out on this thread and things might not play out too well.

On the other hand- DIE BUTTSY, DIE!!

 

[Armstrong]

Lets not go astray, Oscar's been dealing with a rash of deluded posters today, he's probably already in a sour mood. He catches a whiff of us dogging it out on this thread and things might not play out too well.

On the other hand- DIE BUTTSY, DIE!!

Dude @Oscar & me go back a long time - He won't do anything to me !

We served together in the French Foreign Legion when we were young ! And what a soldier Oscar was - He once fought 3 days straight with a piece of shrapnel through his right nut with the insurgents playing Metallica in the background to unsettle his otherwise calm & composed mind !

If it weren't for me & my trusty steed 'Gul Badan', I fear the worst could've happened to our boy here ! Only my timely arrival with a packet of salted pea-nuts & a pair of ear plugs was I able to help keep Oscar's sanity & sooth his emotional trauma of listening to Metallica when hes more of a Beatles person !

Then he got married to some Arab Princesses & I - the Warrior-Poet, I am returned to my Homeland to sings our deeds of glory !

Ahhhh...good times....!

 

[Dillinger]

Dude @Oscar & me go back a long time - He won't do anything to me !

We served together in the French Foreign Legion when we were young ! And what a soldier Oscar was - He once fought 3 days straight with a piece of shrapnel through his right nut with the insurgents playing Metallica in the background to unsettle his otherwise calm & composed mind !

If it weren't for me & my trusty steed 'Gul Badan', I fear the worst could've happened to our boy here ! Only my timely arrival with a packet of salted pea-nuts & a pair of ear plugs was I able to help keep Oscar's sanity & sooth his emotional trauma of listening to Metallica when hes more of a Beatles person !

Then he got married to some Arab Princesses & I - the Warrior-Poet, I am returned to my Homeland to sings our deeds of glory !

Ahhhh...good times....!

NOTE- Buttsy still didn't get the girl, or at least never tried. Well since your true love (strictly unrequited, pardon me this bit Oscar) galloped off to his princess perhaps....

 

[Armstrong]

Oi @Hyperion you haven't posted anything on topic ?