Pakistan coast-defence missile systems

[SQ8]

So is the Zarb a missile being produced in Pakistan under license? Or is it just a straight import?

Imported, then De-MTCR'ed.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Imagination is more important than knowledge - the guiding principle of the Ehl-i Kitap. I am pretty sure, based on the already declared accomplishments, Paks would put enough imagination to modify the systems linearly bit by bit with Sabr and Shukr. Every good act done with Iman, Ihlas and Uhuvviyet has thousand Berekets in it. Thus Paks don't have to comment in PDF that can easily fill a couple of A4 pages to show off their arrogance at failures..

 

[Quwa]

Imported, then De-MTCR'ed.

I see. In this case (de-MTCR'ed C-602 import) is a good idea. No need to license produce the AShM considering that we would only use it from land. If they ever decide to produce an AShM under license, I imagine it would be something like the CM-802, which is a development of the C-802, but with longer range (280km). That AShM we could use from land, JF-17, F-22P, Azmat FAC, maybe even Z-9EC and SSKs.

 

[SQ8]

I see. In this case (de-MTCR'ed C-602 import) is a good idea. No need to license produce the AShM considering that we would only use it from land. If they ever decide to produce an AShM under license, I imagine it would be something like the CM-802, which is a development of the C-802, but with longer range (280km). That AShM we could use from land, JF-17, F-22P, Azmat FAC, maybe even Z-9EC and SSKs.

Makes no sense to do that. Ill repeat the EXACT words uttered to me by the current VCNS when he was heading the post he had. "We only try to make or replicate those things which we cannot get easily".

 

[amardeep mishra]

Imported, then De-MTCR'ed.

Hi Dear @Oscar
I do not understand what you mean by "De-MTCR'ed". But i guess,you are alluding to the possibility of pakistan increasing the range of the chinese missile system?For that to happen,pakistan would eventually have to design their own power plant to have any significant effect on range.Or there can be another possibility of enlarging the missile to accommodate more fuel.But then again any structural modification in any aerial vehicle involves complete change in automatic flight control system(something i work on).They would have to access the stability of modified missile through various simulations or even in wind tunnel. Due care must be given to the position of CG with respect to Neutral Point while making any structural changes.In this scenario the quantities that are most affected are control derivatives and inputs.For instance the control input de(elevator deflection) to yield a particular trim angle of attack alpha will now be different than the previous case(when there was no structural modification).
These must be carefully incorporated in the flight control law that runs onto an on-board computer.
Range improvements can also be rendered by improving the aerodynamics but that is marginal and not significant.
I seriously do not believe that pakistan can design her own gas turbine engine.
Allow me to render you the indian case of brahmos- the missile that uses a russian power plant and indian guidance. To enhance the range,there is no other way but to design our own liquid ramjet independent of russia. Initially when india bought brahmos,GoI thought of procuring only a few missiles and did not pay much heed to the propulsion.Now since brahmos has proved itz worth in all the branches of armed forces,there is a serious thrust to increase the range of the system to 500 and beyond- and that in turn forces the DRDL/ASL to develop a liquid ramjet independent of russia that doesnt come in MTCR purview. And that is the reason why there is a push to design liquid ramjet and scramjet engines in india and in fact my friends are working on those systems

 

[باپ]

Hi Dear @Oscar
I do not understand what you mean by "De-MTCR'ed". But i guess,you are alluding to the possibility of pakistan increasing the range of the chinese missile system?For that to happen,pakistan would eventually have to design their own power plant to have any significant effect on range.Or there can be another possibility of enlarging the missile to accommodate more fuel.But then again any structural modification in any aerial vehicle involves complete change in automatic flight control system(something i work on).They would have to access the stability of modified missile through various simulations or even in wind tunnel. Due care must be given to the position of CG with respect to Neutral Point while making any structural changes.In this scenario the quantities that are most affected are control derivatives and inputs.For instance the control input de(elevator deflection) to yield a particular trim angle of attack alpha will now be different than the previous case(when there was no structural modification).
These must be carefully incorporated in the flight control law that runs onto an on-board computer.
Range improvements can also be rendered by improving the aerodynamics but that is marginal and not significant.
I seriously do not believe that pakistan can design her own gas turbine engine.
Allow me to render you the indian case of brahmos- the missile that uses a russian power plant and indian guidance. To enhance the range,there is no other way but to design our own liquid ramjet independent of russia. Initially when india bought brahmos,GoI thought of procuring only a few missiles and did not pay much heed to the propulsion.Now since brahmos has proved itz worth in all the branches of armed forces,there is a serious thrust to increase the range of the system to 500 and beyond- and that in turn forces the DRDL/ASL to develop a liquid ramjet independent of russia that doesnt come in MTCR purview. And that is the reason why there is a push to design liquid ramjet and scramjet engines in india and in fact my friends are working on those systems

So That means zarb missile I'd an indigenous system after all

 

[Quwa]

Makes no sense to do that. Ill repeat the EXACT words uttered to me by the current VCNS when he was heading the post he had. "We only try to make or replicate those things which we cannot get easily".

So basically AShMs would just be imported from China, no need to produce (even under-license) locally.

But then does that mean that other programs which we could also just get from China, such as Burraq (CH-3A), Barq (AR-1), etc, are also just straight imports, that they're not necessarily produced (under license) at home?

Note, I am *not* referring to developing our own solution here, just producing something under license. It seems we produce some imports at home (e.g. Anza), but not others (Zarb), yet ascribe localized names all over the place (e.g. Burraq and Barq).

 

[SQ8]

Hi Dear @Oscar
I do not understand what you mean by "De-MTCR'ed". But i guess,you are alluding to the possibility of pakistan increasing the range of the chinese missile system?For that to happen,pakistan would eventually have to design their own power plant to have any significant effect on range.Or there can be another possibility of enlarging the missile to accommodate more fuel.But then again any structural modification in any aerial vehicle involves complete change in automatic flight control system(something i work on).They would have to access the stability of modified missile through various simulations or even in wind tunnel. Due care must be given to the position of CG with respect to Neutral Point while making any structural changes.In this scenario the quantities that are most affected are control derivatives and inputs.For instance the control input de(elevator deflection) to yield a particular trim angle of attack alpha will now be different than the previous case(when there was no structural modification).
These must be carefully incorporated in the flight control law that runs onto an on-board computer.
Range improvements can also be rendered by improving the aerodynamics but that is marginal and not significant.
I seriously do not believe that pakistan can design her own gas turbine engine.
Allow me to render you the indian case of brahmos- the missile that uses a russian power plant and indian guidance. To enhance the range,there is no other way but to design our own liquid ramjet independent of russia. Initially when india bought brahmos,GoI thought of procuring only a few missiles and did not pay much heed to the propulsion.Now since brahmos has proved itz worth in all the branches of armed forces,there is a serious thrust to increase the range of the system to 500 and beyond- and that in turn forces the DRDL/ASL to develop a liquid ramjet independent of russia that doesnt come in MTCR purview. And that is the reason why there is a push to design liquid ramjet and scramjet engines in india and in fact my friends are working on those systems

Your post my dear is irrelevant to the whole point of my quip. FYI, these capabilities already exist in Pakistan to an extend but in this case are IRRELEVANT.

The C-602 is based upon the YJ-62 and is essentially the SAME missile with the range deliberately reduced to meet MTCR restrictions for export, what is the YJ-62's range?

So basically AShMs would just be imported from China, no need to produce (even under-license) locally.

But then does that mean that other programs which we could also just get from China, such as Burraq (CH-3A), Barq (AR-1), etc, are also just straight imports, that they're not necessarily produced (under license) at home?

Note, I am *not* referring to developing our own solution here, just producing something under license. It seems we produce some imports at home (e.g. Anza), but not others (Zarb), yet ascribe localized names all over the place (e.g. Burraq and Barq).

You have gotten the exact ideology on which our defence procurement operates(barring corruption which is rampant).
The only change is NOT that we do licence produce what is less costly to do so at home, but we will NOT try to reinvent the wheel if there is no need to.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Only matter of time before someone will say it is derived of the Israeli technology blue prints, which were intercepted in the desert of Qandahar

 

[Assault Rifle]

^C602 is a Chinese missile, it won't have any Israeli components.

 

[Quwa]

You have gotten the exact ideology on which our defence procurement operates(barring corruption which is rampant).
The only change is NOT that we do licence produce what is less costly to do so at home, but we will NOT try to reinvent the wheel if there is no need to.

It's a valid approach, especially considering our finite level of resources.

 

[Blue Marlin]

So basically AShMs would just be imported from China, no need to produce (even under-license) locally.

But then does that mean that other programs which we could also just get from China, such as Burraq (CH-3A), Barq (AR-1), etc, are also just straight imports, that they're not necessarily produced (under license) at home?

Note, I am *not* referring to developing our own solution here, just producing something under license. It seems we produce some imports at home (e.g. Anza), but not others (Zarb), yet ascribe localized names all over the place (e.g. Burraq and Barq).

basically you buy the missile with mctr restrictions and then you increase the range when you recieve it. the missile was chosen because it's original range was much greater than than when what the mctr regs allows so once the missiles was chosen and sold to mctr standards it would be easy to increase the range of the missile. and the payload. also it could be the c802g model with a much larger warhead. but then again we are going of "sources" for the entire thing.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Your post my dear is irrelevant to the whole point of my quip. FYI, these capabilities already exist in Pakistan to an extend but in this case are IRRELEVANT.

The C-602 is based upon the YJ-62 and is essentially the SAME missile with the range deliberately reduced to meet MTCR restrictions for export, what is the YJ-62's range?

Hi @Oscar
I confess,I did not know much about the details of YJ-62,however a quick look on internet i got to know that it is a 280-290kms range cruise missile.The missile already meets the MTCR criteria,so i dont know why there is a need to further reduce the range?Maybe you can explain the reasoning?
YJ-62 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for why my post is irrelevant,is something only you can answer.I was merely shedding some light on the flight control aspect that will arise out of changing the aerodynamic shape and size of the aerial vehicle.I also dont know what "capabilities" you were alluding to,when you said-
"these capabilities already exist in Pakistan to an extend but in this case are IRRELEVANT"
If you meant to say that capability to modify the flight control laws then that is debatable,or if you meant capability to "design" a new power plant altogether,then that is out of question at the moment given the research culture of your country

 

[Blue Marlin]

Hi @Oscar
I confess,I did not know much about the details of YJ-62,however a quick look on internet i got to know that it is a 280-290kms range cruise missile.The missile already meets the MTCR criteria,so i dont know why there is a need to further reduce the range?Maybe you can explain the reasoning?
YJ-62 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for why my post is irrelevant,is something only you can answer.I was merely shedding some light on the flight control aspect that will arise out of changing the aerodynamic shape and size of the aerial vehicle.I also dont know what "capabilities" you were alluding to,when you said-
"these capabilities already exist in Pakistan to an extend but in this case are IRRELEVANT"
If you meant to say that capability to modify the flight control laws then that is debatable,or if you meant capability to "design" a new power plant altogether,then that is out of question at the moment given the research culture of your country

if you look again it clearly says: J-62A is credited with a range of up to 400 km. looking at the the long range and the warhead weight, it would be for missile boats and possible missile interception as it may employ the same technique as the iron dome by have an airburst fragmenting warhead. to increase the inception area signifcantly.

 

[DavidSling]

A lot of American money and Technology,bought or stolen,goes into Israeli products, are these products not known as Israeli ?

loled