Pakistan Civil Aviation | Information & News.

[Donatello]

No idea because PIA keeps updating their tenders every other week, rumors are that PIA is going for the a330-200s as well.

That would be the worst decision ever. When the entire fleets are moving away from A330 and A340s, PIA want's gas guzzlers? Nice.

 

[SHAMK9]

That would be the worst decision ever. When the entire fleets are moving away from A330 and A340s, PIA want's gas guzzlers? Nice.

No one is moving away from a330's, every airline is replacing old ones by buying the new ones, check out the order list for a330's.

 

[Jango]

Un confirmed reports that Shaheen going for ATR-72.

 

[Jango]

Shows a position that we and PIA had in the region. Note the aircraft AP-BCD at 00:20. AP means the aircraft is registered in Pakistan.

PIA leased aircraft to Emirates for setting itself up.

 

[razgriz19]

If anyone has any doubts about whether PIA is getting 777 or not, they should check this link out. PIA is on the list with 5 B777 on order.

The Boeing Company

 

[Jango]

If anyone has any doubts about whether PIA is getting 777 or not, they should check this link out. PIA is on the list with 5 B777 on order.

The Boeing Company

This is about the firm order for buying the planes.

The confusion is about the leases that PIA is trying for.

 

[Jango]

The PIA ATR-42 that was involved in the Lahore airport runway skid accident has been apparently written off. Plane markings have been removed and plane is just sitting there since the incident.

Courtesy Historyofpia.com

Repair might not have been found to be economically feasible.

 

[Edevelop]

PIA to operate weekly flight to Madina

LAHORE – The Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is planning to operate a direct weekly flight from Lahore to Madina from the next Umrah season, said a spokesman on Saturday.

He said that a direct flight from Madinah to Peshawar is also planned subject to availability of aircraft. It is worth mentioning here that currently PIA is operating three flights in a week from Pakistan to Madina including Karachi – Madina, Multan-Karachi-Madina-and Islamabad- Madina.

Spokesman said that revenue on this sector enhanced to 20 million Riyals in 2011. He said that from Madina some seven airlines operate and besides PIA these include Saudi, Qatar, Emirates, Gulf Air and Turkish Airline etc.

Last year, 11,992 passengers traveled to Pakistan by PIA from Madina and this year this number has increased to 13,068.

Around 43,000 Hajjis from Madina would travel via bus to Jeddah from where they will take their flights to Pakistan. The Hajjis would be transported by Pakistan Hajj Mission in Saudi Arabia and we expect on time departures of Hujjaj by buses from Madina to Jeddah Hajj Terminal.

The PIA has, so far carried over 33,000 Hajjis to Pakistan on board 79 Hajj flights while over 5,700 Hajjis have travelled through the PIA regular scheduled flights to Pakistan. The airline’s Post Hajj Operation is continuing with on time departures from Jeddah to Pakistan.

PIA to operate weekly flight to Madina | The Nation

 

[Edevelop]

I think airlines in Pakistan should go for Embraer aircrafts. They are cheaper and are equally efficient as compared to Airbus and Boeing. Air Canada and JetBlue are examples of such that use them.

 

[Jango]

I think airlines in Pakistan should go for Embraer aircrafts. They are cheaper and are equally efficient as compared to Airbus and Boeing. Air Canada and JetBlue are examples of such that use them.

Rumor is that Shaheen is going for ATR's for the shorter routes.

And with these airlines already procuring A340's, A330's, and then PIA with the leasing of 737NG, they would not want to be procuring another aircraft system (different company) right now. They would be wanting to keep things fluid, and not have a change from Airbus,Boeing to Embraer.

 

[Edevelop]

Rumor is that Shaheen is going for ATR's for the shorter routes.

And with these airlines already procuring A340's, A330's, and then PIA with the leasing of 737NG, they would not want to be procuring another aircraft system (different company) right now. They would be wanting to keep things fluid, and not have a change from Airbus,Boeing to Embraer.

But if Shaheen is looking to buy ATR, then isn't that change ? I don't think they have ever operated those types of aircrafts or have had any links with the company...

 

[Jango]

But if Shaheen is looking to buy ATR, then isn't that change ? I don't think they have ever operated those types of aircrafts or used anything from the company...

Yes, that is why Embraer would be a no go. Shaheen is going for the ATR for short haul national routes.

And ATR and Airbus do share alot between them in terms of tech and manufacturing. ATR has a connection with EADS. ATR begans with a joint venture of Aerospatiale and Aeritalia, and after a while Aerospatiale merged into EADS.

 

[imiakhtar]

Friday, November 02, 2012

PIA plans to acquire 7 aircraft on lease

ground your own aircraft and lease somebody's aircraft - reeks of corruption!

There's nothing corrupt about it. The tendering process and documents have been very clear and available for all to examine. They were opened at the end of October in the presence of TIP.

Further, if you've got an issue with the tendering process, perhaps you should lay the blame on your uniform heroes at the MoD who initiated the tender under the retd Air Marshall's direction.

There was a lease for 2 Wide body and 6 narrow body A/C. What happened to that? Scrapped?

As above, the tenders were opened at the end of October in Karachi. They will be evaluated and a decision made.

Lease or buy?

If it is for lease, then it depends on whether it is a dry lease or wet lease. If it is a wet lease, then it makes a little bit of sense, to replace the old A310's on some European routes, and some other places. If it is dry lease, a stupid move. You need to get a completely new maintenance infrastructure in place and other associated equipment.

As for a buy, this does not make much sense to me unless they want to get it as a replacement for A310. We already have 777 and 747 in long haul, and a new jumbos are also rumored to be coming (second hand ofcourse). And PIA is also looking at 737NG series as a replacement on short routes.

One thing is for sure, PIA sure is in a mess regarding procurement, and not giving any confidence to the sellers.

The tender is for lease. However, there could be flexibility built into the contract giving PIA the option to purchase the aircraft. One of PIA's B777s is leased from ILFC ( I believe it is AP-BHX) with an option for purchase. Recently, PIA cancelled it's lease of A310 aircraft and bought the aircraft from Airbus.

The B747s in PIAs fleet are in dire repair and are not used on long haul flights. They're used on domestic and middle-eastern sectors.

The ex-Saudi 747s that have been rumoured are just as old and tired. They wouldn't be much help.

You are correct in saying the fleet acquisition has been a mess of late. This is due to a number of factors such as poor financial state, a very powerful pilot and engineering union, multiple management changes, poor economy outlook and perhaps most importantly a poor track record in maintaining it's aircraft. You only need to look at the feeble response PIA received from it's initial aircraft tender: ex-jet airways 737s manufactured circa 2000-2001 and egyptair 777-200s with PW engines from 1998-2000. I don't blame PIA from scrapping that tender and organizing a new bid.

Furthermore the aircraft if leased will be dry-leased. PIA unions would not allow the aircraft to be wet leased as it would outsource their work to contractors.

well the only possible reason for having two different types of engines is that, If the ADs (Airworthiness Directives) are released to the owners/operators of that engine from the manufacture, then the operators would have to ground the fleet in order to fix that problem asap. however if you have an airline that has a single type of aircraft that uses same type of engines then your simply screwed.
by having two different types of engines, you eliminate the possibility of grounding the entire fleet.

Bollocks. You're wrong on all accounts. I can't recall a single aircraft/engine AD in recent years which has prompted an aircraft grounding.

There is no advantage in a small airline like PIA maintaining multiple engine fleets. That strategy pursued on the A310 and B747 has been a pain in the arse for PIA engineering and is extremely expensive. For example, it costs PIA over $2million to have a Rolls-ROyce RB211 transported out and overhauled. It would be even more expensive to try and do it in house. Some of the A310s are currently grounded due to a shortage of PW and GE engine parts (due to birdstrikes mainly!)

Realistically, PIA needs to think about closing down the engineering department and contract out engine and airframe maintenance. It would be much cheaper but would the all powerful engineering union and the PPP allow it? after all it would result in job losses.

Not sure because it's only a rumor, PIA needs to get rid of a310s and 737s, 'technical' difficulties are becoming normal for PIA.

That would be the worst decision ever. When the entire fleets are moving away from A330 and A340s, PIA want's gas guzzlers? Nice.

What a silly statement. The A330 has outsold the Boeing 777 and Boeing 787 this year. In fact, the A330 would have been a much better fit for PIA over the 777. The only route which require the payload range of the 777 is Pakistan-canada and the pak-usa routes are extremely seasonal. Are two routes enough justification for an aircraft?

No one is moving away from a330's, every airline is replacing old ones by buying the new ones, check out the order list for a330's.

Very much so.

Un confirmed reports that Shaheen going for ATR-72.

It's unfortunate that shaheen is having to increase it's domestic service to regional airports. It's one of the reasons why PIA has so many staff and is making very little money due to the regional routes.

The PIA ATR-42 that was involved in the Lahore airport runway skid accident has been apparently written off. Plane markings have been removed and plane is just sitting there since the incident.

Courtesy Historyofpia.com

Repair might not have been found to be economically feasible.

And yet we're constantly told that Pakistan and PIA have the best pilots in the world. Let us hope the ATR fleet doesn't go the way of the Fokker F-50 fleet, many of which had fatal crashes or were written off.

I think airlines in Pakistan should go for Embraer aircrafts. They are cheaper and are equally efficient as compared to Airbus and Boeing. Air Canada and JetBlue are examples of such that use them.

Embraers may be cheaper however they can not be compared on a like for like basis with the Boeing or Airbus offerings as the latter offer much higher seat counts.

Yes, that is why Embraer would be a no go. Shaheen is going for the ATR for short haul national routes.

And ATR and Airbus do share alot between them in terms of tech and manufacturing. ATR has a connection with EADS. ATR begans with a joint venture of Aerospatiale and Aeritalia, and after a while Aerospatiale merged into EADS.

There is no pilot, training, parts or fleet commonality between airbus and ATR aircraft.

 

[Edevelop]

Shows a position that we and PIA had in the region. Note the aircraft AP-BCD at 00:20. AP means the aircraft is registered in Pakistan.

PIA leased aircraft to Emirates for setting itself up.

Man they should owe us back !

 

[Jango]

There is no pilot, training, parts or fleet commonality between airbus and ATR aircraft.

I didn't talk about pilot training or anything of the sort. A few parts are common because they are sourced from the same place.