Pakistan-China Joint Air Force Exercise "Shaheen-IX 2020"

[Chakar The Great]

 

[aziqbal]

these exercises are very important for the development of tactics against Russian built Sukhois

Pakistani pilots not only know the capabilities of their own but also the capabilities of the enemy

I remember Air Commodore Abdus Sattar Alvi saying that when he was flying his Mig21 over Golan during 1973 Arab-Israeli war he knew the Mig21 was a rubbish fighter

but he also knew the Mirage was a high flying fast interceptor which could not perform well in a close turning dog fight

so what did he do? he brought the Mirage into a dog fight and made him overshot and downed him

I am sure the Su30 MKI suffered because PAF pilots know well the acceleration and turn speed of the Sukhoi

 

[siegecrossbow]

these exercises are very important for the development of tactics against Russian built Sukhois

Pakistani pilots not only know the capabilities of their own but also the capabilities of the enemy

I remember Air Commodore Abdus Sattar Alvi saying that when he was flying his Mig21 over Golan during 1973 Arab-Israeli war he knew the Mig21 was a rubbish fighter

but he also knew the Mirage was a high flying fast interceptor which could not perform well in a close turning dog fight

so what did he do? he brought the Mirage into a dog fight and made him overshot and downed him

I am sure the Su30 MKI suffered because PAF pilots know well the acceleration and turn speed of the Sukhoi

Even though the MKI has TVC, it actually has lower thrust to weight compared to J-11A/B since it not has to deal with additional weight (two seater modification) but keeps the AL-31FP engine, which has similar thrust to weight as the AL-31F and lower thrust to weight to WS-10. This means that the J-11B could keep up with MKI’s maneuvers across most of the envelope with the exception of post stall maneuvers.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Even the U-2 that flew over russia had US markings on it---.

PLAAF uses low observable unit markings to hide unit / squadron movement and unit strength. It’s nothing to do with air to air engagements. But to hide the identity of the aircraft.

Hi,

Thank you for the explanation.

Pakistan should wait and not buy 4.5 gen aircrafts. China will very soon sell 5th gen aircrafts so better to wait. India won't attack you anytime soon they are preoccupied with China.

Hi,

Weapons are needed that fit the usage and utility in the arena in question.

At this stage---5th gen is not the answer---but a 4.5 gen aircraft is the need of the hour---.

 

[Xone]

Pakistan should wait and not buy 4.5 gen aircrafts. China will very soon sell 5th gen aircrafts so better to wait. India won't attack you anytime soon they are preoccupied with China.

Wait button is already on press for a long time. Now, it is time to weight the suitability of the fighter plane of the immediate needs.
A recent report published in Chinese blog claims that 4 J-10C successfully defended against 24 J-10A attack formation. J10C is on the platter for PAF. This exercise will also be a puppy dog close i.e. a practical trial and evaluation before going into purchase.

 

[Deino]

View attachment 695321

The quality of this photo is worse, but the logo is still visible.And the other one is completely invisible

Sorry, but either we are discussing semantics or certain individual eye-sight capabilities, but there is clearly a PLAAF sign attached. Not very much visible indeed since the latest low vis markings are more very-low-visibility markings but to say there is none and to jump to any strange conclusions it might be a spy aircraft or one assigned for tests by the PAF is ridiculous.

 

[Arsenal Caan]

I think these planes are here to stay. After the 27th Feb skirmish, US brought a THAAD system to Israel for exercise purposes but later on confirmed that it will be deployed permanently.
Lets see

 

[Zarvan]

China has deployed J-11B heavyweight air superiority fighters and its new J-10C ‘4++ generation’ multirole jets as part of a contingent participating in joint drills with the Pakistani Air Force under the Shaheen IX exercises. China’s Assistant Chief of Staff, People’s Liberation Army (PLA)) Air Force Major General Sun Hong attended the opening ceremony of the exercises, announcing: “The joint exercise will improve the actual level of combat training and strengthen practical cooperation between the two air forces”. Welcoming the Chinese contingent, Pakistani Air Vice Marshal Waqas Ahmed Sulehri said: “The joint exercise will provide an opportunity to further enhance interoperability of both the air forces, fortifying brotherly relations between the two countries”. The exercise began just a week after Chinese State Councillor and Defense Minister Wei Fenghe met with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan and President Arif Alvi during a visit to the country. The two have a long history of joint exercises and close military cooperation, with Pakistan’s armed forces increasingly recant on Chinese military hardware and recently ordering Type 054 frigates, VT-4 battle tanks, JF-17 fighter jets, PL-12 air to air missiles and Type 039 submarines among others.

Chinese J-11B Heavyweight Fighter




The J-10C and J-11B are two of the more capable fighters in the Chinese fleet, and the most formidable ever to have been deployed for exercises abroad. Both aircraft are significantly more capable than those in Pakistani service, with the elite of the Pakistani Air Force comprised of basic fourth generation lightweight designs - namely the JF-17 and F-16. The J-11B has over double the engine power of any Pakistani fighter, and is one of the most widely operated fighters in Chinese service. Many of the fighters have recently been upgraded to the J-11BG standard, which has included equipping them with AESA radars, new avionics and electronic warfare systems and a range of new weaponry. The J-11 is notably derived from the Soviet Su-27 Flanker design, which was also the basis for development of the Su-30MKI fighter that is currently the most capable in the Indian fleet. The J-11BG has notable advantages in situational awareness and weaponry over the Indian fighter however.

Chinese J-10C '4++ Generation' Fighter



The J-10C is one of the latest additions to the PLA Air Force’s fighter fleet, joining in the spring of 2018 and representing the world’s very first ‘4++ generation’ lightweight fighter. Alongside its American rival thee F-35, it its considered one of the two most capable single engine fighters in the world today and benefits from a range of very high end technologies. These include stealth features and radar absorbent coatings, as well as a powerful AESA radar, state of the art data links, AESA radar guided PL-15 long range missiles and PL-10 high off-boresight infrared homing missiles. The J-10C’s combination of a light but durable high composite airframe and powerful WS-10B engines provides an extreme degree of manoeuvrability with few rivals in the world. The fighter’s sophistication allows it to go head to head with much heaver aircraft on favourable terms, including the J-11B, Su-30MKI and even the Su-35 which Russia has marketed to India.

Pakistani Air Force JF-17B Light Fighter



Participating on the Pakistani side were JF-17, J-7 and older Mirage III fighters, the latter two being very lightweight third generation designs which are expected to begin to be phased out of service over the coming decade. A number of unverified reports have indicated that Pakistan is considering acquiring the J-10C to form elite new fighter units, and while the jets are more expensive and cost more to operate than the JF-17 their performance advantages could make this worthwhile. The Pakistani Air Force is currently expecting to receive its first fighters with capabilities above those of the standard fourth generation - namely the JF-17 Block 3 which benefits from many of the same technologies as the J-10C including similar avionics and access to PL-15 missiles.

Elite Chinese Fighters in Pakistan For Shaheen IX Exercises: How Powerful Are The J-10C and J-11B Jets? (militarywatchmagazine.com)

 

[Vapnope]

The previous exercise was aiming to simulate fight between MKI and Jeff, giving Thunder drivers real insight against the mighty MKIs and develop some tactics against them.
What is special in this Exercise is, to develop tactics for tackling newly indicted Indian Rafael.
If Thunder does not do well against J-10C in this exercise Pakistan may opt for few J10s to blunt Indian edge, otherwise Pakistan may opt go according to its previous
This exercise is spanning to the end of December, and it will give Pakistani Pilots the opportunity to see the actual performance of J-10C and J11 in the coming days.
What is your take about this ongoing exercise?

What you are saying makes a lot of sense considering there is a panel in PAF which is working on J10C selection & procurement.
Deino is right that these planes belong to PLAAF and are here for the exercise..

 

[Deino]

News is Pakistan has ordered 50 J-10C on an emergency basis? I would not be surprised if PAF pilots are flying and testing the J-10Cs as its quiet surprising China has bought its latest modern aircraft to Pakistan and is willing to let us see it up close.

Pakistan approaches China to purchase J-10 fighter jets for deployment against Indian Rafales

As tensions rise, Pakistan discusses importing J-10C fighter jets, as India procures one of the most advanced air defense systems from Russia.

www.globalvillagespace.com

Pakistan reaches out to China for more fighter jets and missiles

The J-10CE is the export version of the J-10 with the People's Liberation Army Air Force and has the AESA radar, fire-control systems and Infrared technology.

www.timesnownews.com

Pakistan is known to keep quiet even the recent VT-4 tank acquisition was kept quiet until the first units arrived...

Pakistan should definitely explore a variant of the Su-30/35 series. Something like the SU-35 with Chinese avionics (AESA Radar, EW, sensors, HUD, etc) similar to what many countries did with the SU-30 integrating it with 3rd party avionics. There def is a requirement for 50 such aircrafts to be able to perform air superiority and long range strike missions. There is also an inherent benefit of acquiring Sukhois and the J-10 as they share the exact same engine so imagine the cost savings of bulk purchases and maintenance.

It would be a win win for all sides. Pakistan will have the latest Sukhoi design/engines with the latest avionics and the ability to fire PL-15s, while russia/china would both make $$$ without us having to get J-11 and piss of the russians.

Can we please stick to the topic, which is the Shaheen IX exercise since these constant discussions in a new type for the PAF can be discussed in its own dedicated thread? ! Thank you.

 

[redtom]

Sorry, but either we are discussing semantics or certain individual eye-sight capabilities, but there is clearly a PLAAF sign attached. Not very much visible indeed since the latest low vis markings are more very-low-visibility markings but to say there is none and to jump to any strange conclusions it might be a spy aircraft or one assigned for tests by the PAF is ridiculous.

View attachment 695469

From a management perspective, owned assets need to be managed with a uniform label.
I'm not saying the aircraft was deliberately removing the label, but the aircraft is not the PROPERTY of the PLAAF. It may belong to the aircraft manufacturing Company, it may belong to the PAF, but it definitely does not belong to the PLAAF.

So I guess it's not just a training exercise, maybe it's a promotional campaign by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, maybe it's an acceptance test of PAF, maybe it's a joint verification of a new device between China and Pakistan.

 

[CriticalThought]

I wonder what's the significance of this frame from the PAF video. It shows an F-16 along with Chinese aircraft.

 

[Deino]

From a management perspective, owned assets need to be managed with a uniform label.
I'm not saying the aircraft was deliberately removing the label, but the aircraft is not the PROPERTY of the PLAAF. It may belong to the aircraft manufacturing Company, it may belong to the PAF, but it definitely does not belong to the PLAAF.

So I guess it's not just a training exercise, maybe it's a promotional campaign by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, maybe it's an acceptance test of PAF, maybe it's a joint verification of a new device between China and Pakistan.

Pardon but this is wrong. There are PLAAF markings and a serial number fitting exactly to the unit expected to participate but simply in low visibility markings... there is NOTHING to deny and nothing that hints towards a factory owned or even PAF owned J-10C.

Sorry to say so, but you are chasing butterflies of whishful thinking.

I wonder what's the significance of this frame from the PAF video. It shows an F-16 along with Chinese aircraft.

View attachment 695491

Where so you see a F-16? ... there is none.

 

[Yasser76]

I wonder what's the significance of this frame from the PAF video. It shows an F-16 along with Chinese aircraft.

View attachment 695491

NO F-16 dude

 

[CriticalThought]

Pardon but this is wrong. There are PLAAF markings and a serial number fitting exactly to the unit expected to participate but simply in low visibility markings... there is NOTHING to deny and nothing that hints towards a factory owned or even PAF owned J-10C.

Sorry to say so, but you are chasing butterflies of whishful thinking.



Where so you see a F-16? ... there is none.

NO F-16 dude

Apologies. My mistake. Maybe I need a visit to SpecSavers myself.