Pakistan-China Joint Air Force Exercise "Shaheen-IX 2020"

[Xone]

The previous exercise was aiming to simulate fight between MKI and Jeff, giving Thunder drivers real insight against the mighty MKIs and develop some tactics against them.
What is special in this Exercise is, to develop tactics for tackling newly indicted Indian Rafael.
If Thunder does not do well against J-10C in this exercise Pakistan may opt for few J10s to blunt Indian edge, otherwise Pakistan may opt go according to its previous plan of inducting Block 3 as it comes.
This exercise is spanning to the end of December, and it will give Pakistani Pilots the opportunity to see the actual performance of J-10C and J11 in the coming days.
What is your take about this ongoing exercise?

 

[siegecrossbow]

The previous exercise was aiming to simulate fight between MKI and Jeff, giving Thunder drivers real insight against the mighty MKIs and develop some tactics against them.
What is special in this Exercise is, to develop tactics for tackling newly indicted Indian Rafael.
If Thunder does not do well against J-10C in this exercise Pakistan may opt for few J10s to blunt Indian edge, otherwise Pakistan may opt go according to its previous plan of inducting Block 3 as it comes.
This exercise is spanning to the end of December, and it will give Pakistani Pilots the opportunity to see the actual performance of J-10C and J11 in the coming days.
What is your take about this ongoing exercise?

Well this is not exactly J-10C’s first rodeo. They’ve been attending Shaheen exercises since 2018. However, I don’t know if this is the first time J-10C drivers from Dingxin participated in Shaheen. If so then this might be a marketing pitch since blue force pilots in China are considered to be the best.

 

[LKJ86]

The previous exercise was aiming to simulate fight between MKI and Jeff, giving Thunder drivers real insight against the mighty MKIs and develop some tactics against them.
What is special in this Exercise is, to develop tactics for tackling newly indicted Indian Rafael.
If Thunder does not do well against J-10C in this exercise Pakistan may opt for few J10s to blunt Indian edge, otherwise Pakistan may opt go according to its previous plan of inducting Block 3 as it comes.
This exercise is spanning to the end of December, and it will give Pakistani Pilots the opportunity to see the actual performance of J-10C and J11 in the coming days.
What is your take about this ongoing exercise?

In Shaheen-VII 2018, PAF had found that the old tactics of JF-17 were meaningless to against J-10C.

 

[Xone]

If so then this might be a marketing pitch since blue force pilots in China are considered to be the best.

Let us see how do it fare against the best. The myth of man behind machine is more important will be under test this time. PAF chief already hinted about induction of a new fighter at due time and need.

 

[KaiserX]

Pakistan needs more aircrafts and fast. Not saying JF-17 block 3 isnt capable but with production rate and the Rafale Pakistan needs a stop gap for 75 extra 4.5 Generation aircrafts. J-10C fits the requirements the best.

With an emergency order of 50 J-10 CE and the current rate of production for the JF-17 block 3 the PAF can introduce 100 new fighters equipped with AESA radars and the PL-15 in a matter of 3 years rather than just 50 with our domestic production.

In which timeframe the Project AZM/J-31/J-35 is ready.

 

[arjunk]

I still say PAF should go after J-11 ... I watched this video and i was impressed, J-11 is almost stealth, it has stronger very powerful Chinese engines, it can hold large arms etc

J11 is based off flanker which India knows inside out (well not really considering their shoddy training but still never underestimate the enemy)

Flankers have massive RCS

The PAF does not like twin engine heavy fighters. They are very expensive to buy and maintain, even if China sells to us at 0% profit.

 

[arjunk]

The real question here is why is there a J10 with no markings flying in pakistani air space---. All aircraft must have visible & clear markings when they are flying in a foreign country---.

This is something extra ordinary---.Readers should do some research if such an incidence has taken in other countries prior to this---.

There are some technicalities about this issue and it is bugging me for the last couple of days---.

Things like this just don't happen---. You don't fly your aircraft with no NATIONAL IDENTITY markings in another friendly country or UN-FRIENDLY country---.

Because in real combat, there will not be bright colours plastered all over the plane like Abhi Bhabi's Mig-21 bullseye(s)

 

[arjunk]

Pakistan needs more aircrafts and fast. Not saying JF-17 block 3 isnt capable but with production rate and the Rafale Pakistan needs a stop gap for 75 extra 4.5 Generation aircrafts. J-10C fits the requirements the best.

With an emergency order of 50 J-10 CE and the current rate of production for the JF-17 block 3 the PAF can introduce 100 new fighters equipped with AESA radars and the PL-15 in a matter of 3 years rather than just 50 with our domestic production.

In which timeframe the Project AZM/J-31/J-35 is ready.

Does Pakistan have the money for this?

 

[KaiserX]

Does Pakistan have the money for this?

There is more than enough $$$ for this. PAF initiallly sought 40+ J-10s back in 2005 but opted to wait it out. There hasnt been a major foreign purchase for the PAF in over a decade.

Pakistan is spending 6bn for 8 submarines. For 6bn we can get 80 J-10C and 40 J-11B at 50 million apiece. Or 300+ JF-17 Block 3s produced at home. Now sure submarines are important but without air dominance you cannot survive at land or sea.

 

[Inception-06]

In Shaheen-VII 2018, PAF had found that the old tactics of JF-17 were meaningless to against J-10C.

Tell us more, if possible!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Because in real combat, there will not be bright colours plastered all over the plane like Abhi Bhabi's Mig-21 bullseye(s)

you made me laugh
I dont know if anyone will be able to notice markings at BVR range or even at merge at super sonic speeds.
its type, its position and its actions will help you decide if its your friend or enemy.
hiding the markings doesn't increase the suitability because radars don't look for markings. maybe ask @MastanKhan if you believe markings are visible on an jet flying thousands of feet above at supersonic speed

on a different note hiding markings and association with a country can also complicate things if shot down since the captors can do whatever they want.

 

[SQ8]

you made me laugh
I dont know if anyone will be able to notice markings at BVR range or even at merge at super sonic speeds.
its type, its position and its actions will help you decide if its your friend or enemy.
hiding the markings doesn't increase the suitability because radars don't look for markings. maybe ask @MastanKhan if you believe markings are visible on an jet flying thousands of feet above at supersonic speed

on a different note hiding markings and association with a country can also complicate things if shot down since the captors can do whatever they want.

Lo-vis markings are a fairly common change brought in by the 70’s. The concept was to reduce ViD ranges when coupled with the grey of the sky.

However, the introduction of better(secure) IFF and BVR combat has made it a bit redundant.
hence the low-vis trend is now being replaced with radar absorbing paint instead. Have Glass is a good example and apparently the Chinese have been looking to incorporate such concepts.

We tested the idea out almost 17 years ago now but did not find it cost effective back then.

 

[kursed]

PLAAF uses low observable unit markings to hide unit / squadron movement and unit strength. It’s nothing to do with air to air engagements. But to hide the identity of the aircraft.

 

[retaxis]

Pakistan should wait and not buy 4.5 gen aircrafts. China will very soon sell 5th gen aircrafts so better to wait. India won't attack you anytime soon they are preoccupied with China.

 

[Chakar The Great]