Pakistan-China Joint Air Force Exercise "Shaheen-IX 2020"

[Deino]

Just a comment that all the J-10s participating in this exercise will NOT GO BACK TO CHINA.

And this bolt statement is based on what?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Shaheen Missions , Two Hawks , taking on Enemy

 

[kursed]

We seem to harbor quite a few misconceptions when it comes to aerial battles.

When country A-stages an aerial exercise with country-B, it does not automatically translate into both countries, bringing their entire capability/capacity set to the table. There is a reason why IAF had no idea about AMRAAM's lethal ranges, even after exercising for well over a decade with RSAF and IAF.

I don't think we'd automatically expect to know everything about a certain weapon system, just because it was involved in an aerial ex. Yes, PAF can pick up modern airwar concepts, develop new doctrines and war-fighting methods via air exercises and the experience gained. But to suggest that they'd automatically know everything there's to know about a certain system just by spending 10 days around it, in an air ex is somewhat not true.

Indians made the same mistake when they thought we'd do what the Americans did against their employment of Bisons in a below the deck sneaker role.

 

[ARMalik]

And this bolt statement is based on what?

Have been hearing a few things from people in the AF. Seems PAF has something up its sleeves in terms of procurement. I might be completely wrong on this one.

 

[The Eagle]

I wish We could be the side. Pakistan has done so much damage to itself. We have almost gone astray in so many fields, No doubt Pakistan made some progress in some fields like atomic weapons, but still we have to go a long way yet. Sooner we learn, the better.

Since the topic isn't about Pakistan policies but still, as a courtesy I wanted to say that whatever Pakistan has done to itself, is our own doings. IT is the people done all of things to Pakistan... we elect the most corrupt being unaware of their real intention, we still support the most corrupt just because of ethnicity, sect, caste etc, we still stand with most corrupt because we hate the other person for no cogent reasons, we still move into wrong direction just because everyone of us think ourselves as born righteous having self pride.... actually we think that whatever we are doing is the right thing... individually, everyone is riding a high horse of self pride and that is where things get worse. Just look at the comments.... indirect cursing and no one is ready to take responsibility. Isn't that easy to blame someone else or other party or State instead of introspection.

Pakistan is a "Side" and that might be hard for many to see due to lack of understanding and may be that one cannot see it yet. We have gone stray by our own... there's no one to blame. It's just another joke and kind of stupidity if I blame you or Establishment or politicians or Military or whatever character. We damaged ourselves just because sometimes it was my brother in authority, my uncle, my father, mother or anyone else close to me that I didn't see the dark side but kept supporting him/her because I thought it was the right thing to do and in the end, Pakistan paid for it.

And this bolt statement is based on what?

Sometimes, you will find the world most interesting place given our hopes, wishes and hearsays. Honestly, if you are looking for some official statement and a direct leak then I am sorry, nothing will be told unless what happened in regard to PN new LRMPA. So, I think such posts on lighter note will only help to keep discussion continue or otherwise it's just a boring place with nothing to discuss unless PAF releases an official news. I agree that rumor shouldn't be based for a quality argument and cannot be taken as a source but at least, it keeps it interesting in the case of J-10 as many of reputable voices votes in favour.

 

[Deino]

Sometimes, you will find the world most interesting place given our hopes, wishes and hearsays. Honestly, if you are looking for some official statement and a direct leak then I am sorry, nothing will be told unless what happened in regard to PN new LRMPA. So, I think such posts on lighter note will only help to keep discussion continue or otherwise it's just a boring place with nothing to discuss unless PAF releases an official news. I agree that rumor shouldn't be based for a quality argument and cannot be taken as a source but at least, it keeps it interesting in the case of J-10 as many of reputable voices votes in favour.

I fully agree with you but sometimes I have the feeling I'm in the movie "Groundhog Day " ...w e are over and over cycling in the same manner and the same claims are repeated again and again. As such I don't deny the rumours and high probabilities, the PAF will get J-10Cs but I find it unlikely to even absurd to still claim these J-10Cs have no marking, they are already for the PAF or will remain so.

IF China delivers some J-10Cs to Pakistan for test and evaluation, then they will come from CAC and surely not from an operational unit, they will most likely be indeed without any markings but those we've seen have - and they will not be "delivered" via an exercise.

Again; I take these reports for granted, but not the way some ignore certain facts, spin a story together only to hype these rumours.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Dazzler]

 

[The Eagle]

I fully agree with you but sometimes I have the feeling I'm in the movie "Groundhog Day " ...w e are over and over cycling in the same manner and the same claims are repeated again and again. As such I don't deny the rumours and high probabilities, the PAF will get J-10Cs but I find it unlikely to even absurd to still claim these J-10Cs have no marking, they are already for the PAF or will remain so.

IF China delivers some J-10Cs to Pakistan for test and evaluation, then they will come from CAC and surely not from an operational unit, they will most likely be indeed without any markings but those we've seen have - and they will not be "delivered" via an exercise.

Again; I take these reports for granted, but not the way some ignore certain facts, spin a story together only to hype these rumours.

Just my 2 cents.

There is no restriction in place, as far as I know but there is a possibility for the reason that IF PAF has to evaluate J-10C, may be China will spare couple of fully operational birds from top PLAAF Squadron as such. Not to mention that PLAAF do know the level and operating criteria of PAF and if the current flying airframes aren't on par with the PAF requirement, then may be a request for needed changes will be made same as like what we somehow heard about Z-10s. Nothing is impossible given the relations and above all, the lack of any official comment at all, therefore, such rumors & wishes will always into public domain. Whether rumor or a Wishlist, every human mind will share their respective thoughts accordingly.

 

[Deino]

There is no restriction in place, as far as I know but there is a possibility for the reason that IF PAF has to evaluate J-10C, may be China will spare couple of fully operational birds from top PLAAF Squadron as such. Not to mention that PLAAF do know the level and operating criteria of PAF and if the current flying airframes aren't on par with the PAF requirement, then may be a request for needed changes will be made same as like what we somehow heard about Z-10s. Nothing is impossible given the relations and above all, the lack of any official comment at all, therefore, such rumors & wishes will always into public domain. Whether rumor or a Wishlist, every human mind will share their respective thoughts accordingly.

Sorry, if my post was not clear enough and I apologise if this was rated an offence ... my point is simply:

1. The PAF is most likely indeed interested in the J-10C
2. the PAF is evaluating them for sure also via this exercise
3. China will - if Pakistan orders them - deliver them fresh from the factory

But I'm convinced too that:

4. THESE specific aircraft are NOT-unmarked as some claim, they are from a well-known PLAAF FTT-unit and are in PLAAF service.
5. As such THESE specific 4 J-10Cs WILL NOT remain in Pakistan (at least not longer as this exercise lasts) and will return to their unit as planned.
6. ... and in consequence THESE specific 4 J-10Cs will notenter PAF-service.

That does not exclude points 1-3 and both are in no way related to each other.

 

[CriticalThought]

Sorry, if my post was not clear enough and I apologise if this was rated an offence ... my point is simply:

1. The PAF is most likely indeed interested in the J-10C
2. the PAF is evaluating them for sure also via this exercise
3. China will - if Pakistan orders them - deliver them fresh from the factory

But I'm convinced too that:

4. THESE specific aircraft are NOT-unmarked as some claim, they are from a well-known PLAAF FTT-unit and are in PLAAF service.
5. As such THESE specific 4 J-10Cs WILL NOT remain in Pakistan (at least not longer as this exercise lasts) and will return to their unit as planned.
6. ... and in consequence THESE specific 4 J-10Cs will notenter PAF-service.

That does not exclude points 1-3 and both are in no way related to each other.

Forget these unmarked aircraft. Ponder this. On Nov 19, 2017, the F-22 flew its debut mission in Afghanistan:

The F-22 Mission in Afghanistan: Overkill or Realistic Training?

While some observers criticized the mission as overkill and a waste of resources, officials inside and outside of the Air Force said it served a purpose.

www.military.com

On Nov 19, 2017, the J-10 performed an airshow in Quetta:

Pakistani, Chinese air forces in joint displays in Quetta

Event was attended by more than 6,000 people

gulfnews.com

Coincidence much?

 

[Deino]

Forget these unmarked aircraft. Ponder this. On Nov 19, 2017, the F-22 flew its debut mission in Afghanistan:

The F-22 Mission in Afghanistan: Overkill or Realistic Training?

While some observers criticized the mission as overkill and a waste of resources, officials inside and outside of the Air Force said it served a purpose.

www.military.com

On Nov 19, 2017, the J-10 performed an airshow in Quetta:

Pakistani, Chinese air forces in joint displays in Quetta

Event was attended by more than 6,000 people

gulfnews.com

Coincidence much?

Pardon, but why does this contribute any reasonable argument to the claim "THESE 4 specific J-10Cs" will remain in Pakistan?

 

[CriticalThought]

Pardon, but why does this contribute any reasonable argument to the claim "THESE 4 specific J-10Cs" will remain in Pakistan?

It doesn't. It does show the very deep security relations between China and Pakistan.

 

[Deino]

It doesn't. It does show the very deep security relations between China and Pakistan.

... something I never questioned. I only said, Pakistan can not get anything it wants from China especially for free and taht these four specific J-10Cs will not stay in Pakistan as claimed.

That's all.

 

[CriticalThought]

... something I never questioned. I only said, Pakistan can not get anything it wants from China especially for free and taht these four specific J-10Cs will not stay in Pakistan as claimed.

That's all.

Can you provide a reference for that please?

 

[m52k85]

Can you provide a reference for that please?

The reference is that its his personal opinion as someone in the field.

Kiyon bechare ki naakh ragar rahe ho.. Jaane do yar.