Pakistan buys Italian air defence system

[EagleEyes]

Does anyone know the benefits of upgraded Crotale versus the old ones?

 

[blain2]

They have been upgradeg to Cortale-2000 already.



Regards
Wilco

Wilco,

Actually the PAF crotales have been upgraded to Crotale 4000 standard. We originally purchased Crotale 2000 systems in 76 and then recently upgraded the systems to 4000 standard with the assistance of CSF in Pakistan.

Does anyone know the benefits of upgraded Crotale versus the old ones?

Webby, the Crotale 4000 system increases the max. range of the Crotale 2000 system from 20 km to 30 km in addition to some newer jamming protection. The missiles were also re-lifed as part of this upgrade.

Here is a blurb about Crotale 4000:

The 4000 series has the LIVH (Liaison Inter Vehicule Hertzienne) radio link and mast which not only allows them to come into action faster but also to have up to 10,000 m between the acquisition units and 3,000 m between the acquisition unit and its firing units. The evolved system includes a better ECM performance and the passive tracking (by FLIR) of targets and missiles in both day and night conditions.

 

[fatman17]

are the crotale's only available with the PAF or does PAA (aviation) possess them also?

 

[blain2]

Only with PAF. If the PA were to induct them, then it would go to Army Air Defence (AAD) command. Supposedly the Army blokes are looking at BAMSE RBS-23.

 

[0UTL4W]

can anyone predict a timeframe when the longer range sams may be inducted?

 

[Quwa]

Only with PAF. If the PA were to induct them, then it would go to Army Air Defence (AAD) command. Supposedly the Army blokes are looking at BAMSE RBS-23.

I'm unsure if PAF signed onto the entire Spada-2000 system - i.e. the Aspide-2000 missile - when it is apparently negotiating for MICA? While the Spada-2000's surrounding radar, management systems, etc, look good - I think PAF might be trying an alternative to Aspide-2000. Remember that this system was chosen in favour of the SL-AMRAAM...and Raytheon has the Extended Range SLAMRAAM under-development for the system - 40+km range.

PAF could try to develop a short-to-medium range SAM inspired off a mature BVRAAM such as MICA. In fact the Vertical-Launch MICA is already developed; has a range of 20km at an altitude of 9km. Wouldn't be surprised if the PAF integrates VL-MICA to the Spada-2000-system in place of the Aspide-2000. Eventually I think we can develop an extended-range (ER) variant of VL-MICA - 40+ km range; this could be applied further to our surface-ships in the Navy.

In essence I don't think PAF is going for the standard Spada-2000, there may have been some serious changes. I doubt the missile change from Aspide to VL-MICA would make much of a difference in cost. Plus the MICA route would offer us a comprehensive solution in air, land and sea-based solutions...for example we may not get the Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) without MILGEM, but that can be substituted with Naval VL-MICA.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Well, Mark if it is coming along with TOT then any missile can be integrate into the system, which can be handled by the radar of SPADA2000 and command center. Rest is just software codes to be configured so that system recognizes the missile be it VL-MICA,ASPIDE2000,or any other developed by NESCOM.

 

[IceCold]

I'm unsure if PAF signed onto the entire Spada-2000 system - i.e. the Aspide-2000 missile - when it is apparently negotiating for MICA? While the Spada-2000's surrounding radar, management systems, etc, look good - I think PAF might be trying an alternative to Aspide-2000. Remember that this system was chosen in favour of the SL-AMRAAM...and Raytheon has the Extended Range SLAMRAAM under-development for the system - 40+km range.

PAF could try to develop a short-to-medium range SAM inspired off a mature BVRAAM such as MICA. In fact the Vertical-Launch MICA is already developed; has a range of 20km at an altitude of 9km. Wouldn't be surprised if the PAF integrates VL-MICA to the Spada-2000-system in place of the Aspide-2000. Eventually I think we can develop an extended-range (ER) variant of VL-MICA - 40+ km range; this could be applied further to our surface-ships in the Navy.

In essence I don't think PAF is going for the standard Spada-2000, there may have been some serious changes. I doubt the missile change from Aspide to VL-MICA would make much of a difference in cost. Plus the MICA route would offer us a comprehensive solution in air, land and sea-based solutions...for example we may not get the Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) without MILGEM, but that can be substituted with Naval VL-MICA.

Sir MICA comes in its own version of a SAM system, then why to integrate it with Spada-2000?

 

[0UTL4W]

when can we expect pakistan to induct a longe range sam regardless of which one it is?

 

[Quwa]

Sir MICA comes in its own version of a SAM system, then why to integrate it with Spada-2000?

VL-MICA would require a radar and operations centre, but as of yet no source has made mention to what specific radars, etc, are associated with VL-MICA. Hence the system itself is quite open to customer modifications, hence why VL-MICA could smoothly replace Aspide-2000 in the Spada-2000 system.

 

[Quwa]

Well MBDA confirms the Spada-2000 sale...I guess we'll be getting Aspide-2000 as there is no mention of France in this deal. Nonetheless I will have my hopes up for a surprise VL-MICA announcement...but not counting on such.

On another note, the news suggests Italy will be making a strong case for JF-17...their government hopes to expand on defence ties with Pakistan. Plus you should check out Galileo Avionica's new products related to avionics...PAC might start working with them on Batch-II systems.
=====================================================
MBDA Confirms Air Defense System Sale to Pakistan - Defense News
=====================================================

MBDA Confirms Air Defense System Sale to Pakistan
By Tom Kington
Published: 16 Apr 13:54 EDT (09:54 GMT)

ROME - European missile house MBDA has officially confirmed the sale of its Spada 2000 air defense system to the Pakistan Air Force.

Speaking here April 16, Chief Executive Antoine Bouvier said the deal for 10 batteries was worth 415 million euros ($656.56 million) over five years, adding that the contract was signed last August and put into force in February.

The Spada 2000, produced by the Italian-controlled part of the firm, MBDA Italia, and used by Italy and Spain, includes a 60-kilometer-range radar and two firing sections, each containing two missile launchers with six Aspide 2000 missiles each. The missiles have an intercept range of more than 20 kilometers.

"This is a wonderful achievement," Bouvier said of the Pakistan deal. "It was a tough fight."

Industrial sources have told Defense News that the Spada system defeated competition from Raytheon, Diehl BGT and Saab.

MBDA Italia represents the 25 percent stake held in MBDA by Italy's Finmeccanica group.

A series of firing tests that formed part of the evaluation program with the Pakistan Air Force will be followed soon by further firing tests for qualification purposes, Bouvier said. He hopes the deal may be expanded in the future.

Although the deal officially fell under the responsibility of MBDA as a whole, Bouvier said "strong support" was provided by the Italian government and Finmeccanica. The Italian Air Force assisted with pre-contract firing tests in Pakistan, he added.

The export license for the deal was processed in Italy and helped push MBDA Italia to the top of Italy's chart of defense firms ranked by exports for 2007 - calculated on the basis of export licenses issued - with an 18.5 percent share of exports worth 443 million euros.

 

[ejaz007]

Now that medium range air defense system has been confirmed I suppose Pakistan shall be looking at options for its long range requirements. This has become more important to counter growing threat to Pakistan and increasing number of sophisticated fighters and fighter bombers being deployed in our neighborhood (not necessarily India).

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The reason italy wants to make a stronger case for the radar for JF 17 is due to its projection of future sales of this plane. Look at it this way---italy has a radar for this plane and so does france---china has a radar and so does russia---but the way italy and france are working on it, my analysis is that these two manufacturers are projecting that JF 17 would be produced in very large numbers---both of them want to be a part of second batch of 50 planes and thereafter and want to be establised as a part of the standard package of the plane.

 

[Quwa]

When you look at the competing systems, the Spada-2000 with Aspide-2000 isn't that bad. The SL-AMRAAM has a range of 17km; BAMSE of 15km and uncertain future; IRIS-T SL is still under development; Spada-2000 has a range of 20km+...plus an available, tried & tested system.

The MBDA site reports VL-MICA with a range of 20km, but it has growth potential with minor added costs. We should wait for more details from this deal, I still suspect VL-MICA is on the cards in place of Aspide-2000...would make sence as we're reportedly negotiating MICA for JF-17.

From 2012-2015 I suspect more capable medium-range air defence systems will be available. I think PAF & PN might consider a joint-services solution...can definitely see Thales & MBDA offering a land-based Aster-15 with range of 35-40km & supporting 100km AESA radar. The Turks are looking to develop their own equivalent as well...so it will be interesting times aheads. Nonetheless the Spada-2000 will definitely form the basic layout & organization of our future land SAMs.

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan buys Italian air defence system

ROME (October 31 2007): Pakistan Air Force has purchased Spada 2000 air defence system from MDBA Italia, Defence News reported. Pakistan had earlier bought Falco UAV from Galileo Avionica, which is also Italian, delivery of which has already begun. Spada won the contract amid competition from Raytheon, Diehl BGT and Saab, Defence News said.


Business Recorder [Pakistan's First Financial Daily]

MBDA Confirms Air Defense System Sale to Pakistan

By tom kington

Published: 16 Apr

ROME - European missile house MBDA has officially confirmed the sale of its Spada 2000 air defense system to the Pakistan Air Force.

Speaking here April 16, Chief Executive Antoine Bouvier said the deal for 10 batteries was worth 415 million euros ($656.56 million) over five years, adding that the contract was signed last August and put into force in February.

Air Warfare

The Spada 2000, produced by the Italian-controlled part of the firm, MBDA Italia, and used by Italy and Spain, includes a 60-kilometer-range radar and two firing sections, each containing two missile launchers with six Aspide 2000 missiles each. The missiles have an intercept range of more than 20 kilometers.

"This is a wonderful achievement," Bouvier said of the Pakistan deal. "It was a tough fight."

Industrial sources have told Defense News that the Spada system defeated competition from Raytheon, Diehl BGT and Saab.

MBDA Italia represents the 25 percent stake held in MBDA by Italy's Finmeccanica group.

A series of firing tests that formed part of the evaluation program with the Pakistan Air Force will be followed soon by further firing tests for qualification purposes, Bouvier said. He hopes the deal may be expanded in the future.

Although the deal officially fell under the responsibility of MBDA as a whole, Bouvier said "strong support" was provided by the Italian government and Finmeccanica. The Italian Air Force assisted with pre-contract firing tests in Pakistan, he added.

The export license for the deal was processed in Italy and helped push MBDA Italia to the top of Italy's chart of defense firms ranked by exports for 2007 - calculated on the basis of export licenses issued - with an 18.5 percent share of exports worth 443 million euros.