Pakistan Beware, They Are Cornering China!

[gpit]

You are right. Why starve with democracy?

What an insult to the innocent dead! You are telling everyone that those starved to death in death-garden are because they love democracy!?

You are telling us that democracy means starve to death?

Screw your democracy, then.

..

Speechless? So grab excuses and homilies, idioms and metaphors like the Chinese govt? Poverty or Death by State controlled mode? The choice is yours. If you are happy. who are we do deny it to you? We believe in individual rights and freedom of choice.

When our hearts are weeping for the innocent death caused by sham democratic government, you are telling everyone that those starved to death in death-garden choose to die, because they have the freedom to choose die!?

In your chest, there exists a heart of human being or that of a ferocious animal?

Because they (the international journalists) were there when the riots broke out and then they were immediately bundled out. Got that? It couldn't have been explained more lucidly.

Thereafter, selected journalists, with Chinese minders, were taken on a conducted tour when things quietened down. They were taken to a pro China monastery and the monks there broke down in tears and started saying that China lies!! The tour was stopped and now no one is allowed!!

Lying media such as BBC, Rediff have to be kept out of a criminal scene. Period.

Monks have expressed their opinion through other media, that is good thing. The tour is still going on, you liar.

Sue them as is feasible in a democracy. In totalitarian regimes, it would be different. We are fortunate that we have our rights!

Appropriate and cost effective actions such as to quarantine bad media can be taken, and are appropriately taken.

Since you all love to example Pakistan, saw how a govt could be changed in Pakistan through democratic means?

Understand the events and see how govts can be changed through peoples pressure but in a democratic way!

In China, you don't have a choice to change the govt! But then, you are so happy while we are not. Ignorance is bliss, And the Chinese people through mind control and media block remain ignorant of the happenings and so there is total bliss!

Laughable!

Hope you have gown out of cave-constrained homo erectus, stop proclaiming yourself a prophet, and learn more about China.

 

[gpit]

Freedom is our birth right that I automatically receive after I am born and from there onwards where I head is upto me and my fellow country men, most of the so called Indian middle class were none but sons of poor farmers who just worked hard and charted their destiny.

Why even today there are still poor people died of death these days? You are not telling us this is their birth right, are you?

Farmers become middleclass is a good thing, yet that can't gloss over those ugly atrocities. And any sane people wouldn't say death due to starvation is their birth right.

Starvation is there in India, no doubts about it, rather then reaing currnt UN reports and going gaga over it why dont uou talk to those same intellugent UN officials. According too the UN officials most of the projections for MDG will be acieved by India. Yes we Indians cannot undo our past but we hold a good future where poverty allevation is not happening in a steady line but in the form of an exponential curve.

Mostly well said.

I have a problem with some of the forumers who bring up 20-50 years ago stuff in China and turn a blind eye to your current problems.

I'm not saying that lessons 20-50 years ago should be forgotten, rather focusing on now is more important. Using old problems to black-smear the progresses in a country that they know nothing is a self-degrading behaviour.

Above all I am willing to die as a free man rather then be slave to some party. Yes thats us, dirty, poor according to you starving and yet free Indians for you-Free men.

So be it for you. But you shouldn't hijack those who want to live without the threat of death due to starvation, those who want to be free from hunger, free from illiteracy.

What makes you think a billion Chinese are super rich.

Where did I say that?

Wow you seem to be such a stud , why don't you work or associate yourselves with UNICEF or UNDP pewrsonell who have done a tour of duty in China, They will tell you how difficult it is to perform monitoring and evaluation.

I donate to UNICEF regularly. I trust that the organization will put my donation to where it is needed, including India if needs come up.

I do have problem with the inane governments who fails to deliver!

Who cares, ban them if you want and if you want dont listen to them, who stopped you from doing so.
If Chinese are so worried then why are they shuttong off Lhasa to journalist. Stop serving your pious plattitudes.

Medium diseases cause by liars (CNN, BBC, R-TV, Rediff...) are deadly contagious. So they are banned as you wished. I explained numerous time, but you guys whining all the time...

PS: Wonder why Pakistan mambers are so enthused by develoments in China. ...

Are you pretended to be naive, or are you truly ignorant?

The national interests of Pakistan and China are closely interwoven, of course the people of both countries will be concerned about events of the other country.

 

[gpit]

Is that right?

Yup! Can you show us how you can call up those starved to death to vote?

Better to slave away in labour camps for believing in oneself and saying so and getting a pittance just to fill the stomach!

So those slaved away in a labor camp of tea garden and still starved to death with empty stomach sounds great to you? Are you a human being?

Is that what you think is freedom?

The animals in the Zoo get a lot to eat, and the ones in the jungle may starve. But at least, they have the choice of what they want to eat.

Imagine eating one type of food 365 days of the year and that too just adequate for sustenance and have the statistics correct. All for statistics and nothing for the requirement of the person!!

So all those starved to death without even any food are justified? Show your "democratic" face!

How does one know?

Please get out of homo erectus' cave and stop thinking that if you don't know then others won't!

There is no free media in China to report, nor foreign journalists allowed where things are horrid.

Communists and their govt orchestrate happiness or else re-eduaction camps or labour camps. Great Leap Forward was total happiness.

Death garden as of today is justified again?!

Because each to his own ingenuity and enterprise.





Happiness in China?

China has tons of problems, but, yes, Chinese are happier than Indians as show by facts.

Read as above.

Happiness is abstract and it cannot be statistically analysed.

Still Chinese are happier than Indians.

That is if the learner has the potential and the comprehension power.





Obvious isn't it? How can you force one to believe in your sites and not extend the same courtesy to others.

No body will/can force a caveman.

The fact is: the Chinese are happier than the Indians.

First, freedom of choice and then eat.

But then, you will not understand freedom.

If people die of starvation, can they have the freedom to choose not to die of hunger?

Tell me how you let those dead to exercise their freedom of choice to choose not to die of hunger?


By not choosing to die of hunger but having to die of hunger is your understanding of freedom?

Are you sane?

 

[gpit]

China should consider the case of Tibetians before the world misuses them.

Our men were misused by the Americans, and now they are so much deviated from thinking that they have started attacks on their own country.

The Americans will do the same with the Tibetians. So the chinese must strike peace before the tibetians strike terror and the East Pakistan like story will be repeated.

After all the tibetians are not asking a separate country. All they are asking is more autonomy. Hope the people in the communist govt think wisely.

Well said!

Some Indians also want to utilize this case to their advantage.

Chinese government did some stupid things, but the general trend is good as shown by how the riots are handled.

As China is still weak, it has to proceed with caution.

Tibet issue is a very complex one. A great patience and unusual wisdom are expected.

One thing is pretty sure among Tibet Chinese and the rest of Chinese that Tibet is a part of China and it is to the best interest of Tibetan and the rest of Chinese for them to solve the dispute. This, however, is not in the best interest of India, nor that of the Westerners.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

All that doesn't refute the fact that:

...the Leap or Revolution are down into the history, but 40000 pregnant women die yearly even today!

The fact that is important is that with the Three Natural Disaster, The Great Leap Forward. Cultural Revolution, Uighuer and Tibet, there is hardly any reason to gloat or be smug about!!

Actually, as far as the other statistic, from where did you obtain that?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I see. You appreciate lying very much. Show your face.

There is nothing to appreciate about lying.

If you feel that all human beings are Gods on Earth and totally decent and pure, you delude yourself as you delude yourself about the virtues of China.

You are possibly not aware of Libel Laws since such things does not exist in China as your Govt would be hauled up by the Chinese daily for falsifying facts. Thus, your govt and country does not have such a law.

It is similar to your not possibly having copyright laws, wherein pirating is your national pastime and source of wealth.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

[

QUOTE=gpit;148003]Instead, Rediff gives truth... you give truth,

Unintelligble for comprehension since it is out of context.

approximation is better than rediff and Western media.

As above.

Still better than lying!

[/QUOTE]

Odd that you say so.

First of all, it is your word vs that of Rediff.

Who says you are right?

Who says that you are not lying?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What an insult to the innocent dead! You are telling everyone that those starved to death in death-garden are because they love democracy!?

You are telling us that democracy means starve to death?

Screw your democracy, then.

Nothing of an insult. People take birth and they die. Some die naturally and some die through other means like being killed by the State through Great Leaps and Cultural Revolutions and some die by starvation as Three Natural Disasters.

True, we can screw democracy.

Your totalitarianism is already screwed. You have discarded Communism and great class revolution to lick the boots of the Western market philosophy - CAPITALISM!!

You are not true to your own ideology! You adopt the Market and Life philosophy of what you had hated throughout i.e. Capitalism and US Consumerism!

Therefore, it shows China does not have any principle!

We chose Democracy and we steadfastly adhere to it, warts and all!!

Learn to be Principled before giving moral discourses!!

When our hearts are weeping for the innocent death caused by sham democratic government, you are telling everyone that those starved to death in death-garden choose to die, because they have the freedom to choose die!?

Your heart weeps.

Since when have the Communists cared about human beings? You only treat them as tools. Every Communist state has come into being through bloodshed!

Lying media such as BBC, Rediff have to be kept out of a criminal scene. Period.

Typical of Communism and Chine and you prove the point.

When you can't face the truth or allow the truth, lock them up and banish them!!


And the CCTV is purer than driven snow!!

Monks have expressed their opinion through other media, that is good thing. The tour is still going on, you liar.

The foreign journalists and tourists are not allowed in Tibet.

But you would not know since CCTV is not mentioning it since it can't let the people know the truth and it won't!!

Check online.

Appropriate and cost effective actions such as to quarantine bad media can be taken, and are appropriately taken.

Quarantine bad media? This proves my contention that China believes in Mind Control

Musharraf opened up the private TV and he did not clamp down. True, his backers lost, but then Musharraf was not afraid of the truth. Take a leaf from him. He was not power hungry. He did everything for his people. If they did not appreciate it, so be it. He believed that PEOPLE are most important and not his requiring POWER by misleading and telling lies.

Laughable!

Hope you have gown out of cave-constrained homo erectus, stop proclaiming yourself a prophet, and learn more about China.

Hardly laughable.

Good that you can laugh at the truth. Laugh at the lies given by your govt and you shall be shot!!

That would be real laughable, what?

I am not Prophet!

You are attempting to assume that status being pretentious and false!!

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Why even today there are still poor people died of death these days? You are not telling us this is their birth right, are you?

Farmers become middleclass is a good thing, yet that can't gloss over those ugly atrocities. And any sane people wouldn't say death due to starvation is their birth right.

Yes we have deaths and we are not hiding it from the world like you do in China. ATROCITIES? utter Bull ****, no one committed atrocities against them the problem lies in the fact that it is not economically viable for 65% of the population to be dependent on agriculture which forms below 20% of GDP, so herein comes reforms and special economic zones where slowly the popoulation is shifting from agraian way of living to industrialisation. This process can be a bit slow in Indian because here you cannot force people into accepting another way of life, here you ned to convine them and listen to them rather then round thme up on one fine morning and move them away like they do in your country and thet is called slavery albeit to a larger government and we Indians can die rather then being slaves.

Mostly well said.

I have a problem with some of the forumers who bring up 20-50 years ago stuff in China and turn a blind eye to your current problems.

I'm not saying that lessons 20-50 years ago should be forgotten, rather focusing on now is more important. Using old problems to black-smear the progresses in a country that they know nothing is a self-degrading behaviour

Read this form and this thread in case you have the ability to do so, To begin with the thread itsel is a parnoid one, I see you and few others starting a flame wars rather then Indians, We dont give an aota as to where you were two decades ago and where you will be in the future, but if you start mud slinging be prepared to receive the same, we are no saints.

So be it for you. But you shouldn't hijack those who want to live without the threat of death due to starvation, those who want to be free from hunger, free from illiteracy

Hijack? No one here hijacks farmers and clears them out in name of industrialisation like you do, we have seen how in happens in Nandigram , westbengal where communists rule and No thanks we dont need it.

No one made the farmers hungry, the government helps them the best and its for them to move on, there is a limit to how much you can increase the income and statndard of living by tilling one acre of land, so today there is a choice between them and they are free to chose whether they still want to survive on subsistance farming or they want to embrace industrialisation.

I donate to UNICEF regularly. I trust that the organization will put my donation to where it is needed, including India if needs come up.

I do have problem with the inane governments who fails to deliver

Good for you you have donated, most of what you donated will be used during emergency relief operations in Africa and in cases of Tsunami, I worked in UNICEF and UNDP .

UNICEF and UNDP operations in India are not to bring in aid or relief, here they act as a non governmental or third party consultants to government helping them in their planning process. They select few districts all over India as a random sample and then implement models of governance, decntralisaton, health and then show them as a proof of study to government, influenceing them to follow policy. I have spoken in detain with Eimar Barr and Ceclio, Un is here to act as a consultant as they believe that India has enough resources to fight poverty and illiteracy, India will also achieve most of the MDG goals.

So next time you are arogant to think that your donation is gonna be for an Indian with a begging bowl I am sorry you are completey off the mark.

Medium diseases cause by liars (CNN, BBC, R-TV, Rediff...) are deadly contagious. So they are banned as you wished. I explained numerous time, but you guys whining all the time...

Yes maybe CCTV is so true and pious that we all need to watch it understand what the truth is, get down from your high horse!. If they are liars why watch them, The worl beileves them and that is what that matters, so you stop whinning yourself raher then asking me to do so.

Are you pretended to be naive, or are you truly ignorant?

The national interests of Pakistan and China are closely interwoven, of course the people of both countries will be concerned about events of the other country

I am neither naive nr ignorant as I am a free man and I am free to listen to opinions and learnings from all over the world.

China does not give two hots about Pakistan and that is the truth, they are using Pakistan just to keep Indians at bay, IF THEY ARE SO INTERWOVEN PRAY TELL ME THE ENORMOUS HELP GIVEN BY CHINA TO PAKISTAN DURING THEIR WARS. So stop living in wonderland.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Yup! Can you show us how you can call up those starved to death to vote?

Can you show how those who died in the Great Leap Forward, Three Natural Disasters, the Cultural Revolutions are alive to enjoy the fruits of the system of Mao which has been discarded as a failure and the enemy of the proletariat's system which was most hated, i.e. Capitalism taken to save China from disaster?

You have admitted defeat that Capitalism is the only way to progress and prosperity and that Communism and all this humbug about power to the labouring classes is all bogus!!

You are a defeated lot who have cowered down and are following the principles which you hated.

Now, like a Crow (Communism) with borrowed Peacocks Feather (Capitalism) you are getting a fresh stint of life.

Therefore, your hectoring is false and most unprincipled!

So those slaved away in a labor camp of tea garden and still starved to death with empty stomach sounds great to you? Are you a human being?

So all those starved to death without even any food are justified? Show your "democratic" face!

The democratic face is that Communism has been defeated. It only led to deaths by starvation and on and oft revolution to get rid of political opponents.

You are now finding a new life through a true philosophy of existence - CAPITALISM.

Soon the democratic forces will overthrow your Communists in a peaceful way leading you to progress through democracy! Already the forces are at work. Capitalism has given you a new found economy and consumerism is seizing you. A clamped media is all that is still saving you from overthrowing the failed political philosophy - Communism.

Please get out of homo erectus' cave and stop thinking that if you don't know then others won't!

Sadly it is you who is being forced by your state to live in a cave.

Capitalism is here to save you from years of deprivation!!


Death garden as of today is justified again?!

China has tons of problems, but, yes, Chinese are happier than Indians as show by facts.



Still Chinese are happier than Indians.



No body will/can force a caveman.

The fact is: the Chinese are happier than the Indians.

One can delude himself to believe anything!

Happiness is a Warm Gun!

Power grows from a barrel of a Gun. Forgot that? Said by the Great Helmsman, but then you must have forgotten him also since his theories are a total failure and that of his enemy, Uncle Sam, has proved to be your salvation!!

No more Red Salute, what?

No more the little Red Book, what?

Keynes and John Adams are your new Helmsmen, right.


Yes, I am sane.

It is only when one halted in his tracks trying to falsify the truth does one adopt irrelevance and become querulous and start questioning on sanity and other allied tripe!

You have sold yourself to the enemy and warmly embraced Capitalism, consumerism, Keynes and Adams - all anathema to the teachings of Mao and the Communist philosophy.

Hardly a cause to crow with borrowed feathers.

Though I will admit that it has salvaged you from starvation, death and disaster!!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

G pit,

The main issue is that indeed if you are crowing from the rooftop, some valid and some total bogus, it is because you realised Communism and Mao's philosophy only gave starvation, bloodshed, poverty and death

Deng Xiao Ping, who was disgraced by Mao in the Cultural Revolution, realised the folly and clawed back to power.

He shed Communism like as if it were garbage and embraced wisely the true path to progress and prosperity - Capitalism and consumerism of the West to worship the new Great Helmsmen, Adams, Keynes et al.

And so China is looking up!

Communism is a Failure. Soon Democracy will grip China and you will sing a different tune as you are singing the paeans of Capitalism and Consumerism and of Adams and Keynes!!

 

[pingfeng]

We are re-inventing the wheel.

Tibet is closed to foreigners and foreign journalists. If things were fine, then there would have been no requirement to do so. The journalists would able to see how happy and how normal things are. But closing Tibet, none knows what is happening. Obviously, things are not normal and so things are there to hide!

Of course Pakistan is a nice country with very friendly people. That is what was reported in the Indian media during the Cricket series in Pakistan. Friends who went there speak very highly of the Pakistanis and their hospitality. That is why the majority of Indians support the CBMs wholeheartedly.

It would have been in Pakistan's interest if China helped them when they were in conflict with India.

Such are the situations when the pennies should fall!

A friend in need, is a friend indeed.

Talk and sweet words are only nice to hear. Action is what is wanted.

Some one always see the half emptyness in the cup but some one see the water!
But when people just get only negative info from those UNPROFESSIONAL media, they'd make their natural but wrong judgement! And it is the very problem, some media, some person, with their special motivation, are always shouting those bad news or views to people, to gain what they want! But have they be loyal to the career? Many of them are more politicians than so called reporters! And some guy still be congratulating of their "freedom"?

They're so foolish that they thought others cant get their real aim, and they're still smarter than those who are just enjoying their illusion. And which group do you belong?

About the image you own of Pakistan, I can understand, you love your country. And you have think about your history and situation? We cherish friendship with any country, especially Pakistan. And you think I am flattering you? You are so proud, and what's your bid?

Do you remember how your air force crushed before Indians in the war? How nervous are your people in those time? Yeah, India reported: Pakistan was a friend, their people are friendly! Is it just sweet words? You got your Kashimir now? How do you people gain bread?

There is old chinese saying called “数典忘祖”, and please, look into dictionary and revise your nation's experience.

You haven't got the state in your illusion where you can proclaim your lifestyle and society so proudly, and before this please be modesty and proctical. The situation is same to China. and we're doing our best to protect the whole nation's interests.

It's really surprising, and at last I know the difference.

 

[pingfeng]

G pit,

The main issue is that indeed if you are crowing from the rooftop, some valid and some total bogus, it is because you realised Communism and Mao's philosophy only gave starvation, bloodshed, poverty and death

!!

My God! Dear Salim, do you have any rational thoughts about history?!
Do you know what role had Mao and his peers played in China's history?
Look at your history, tell me when did your country proclaimed and which country did it belong before that? You were separated out!

Mao indeed make some wrong decisions along some special periods, being cited clearly in govt text, but he was the most important one for china's liberation. Do you know haw chinese comments him, and how westerners do?
please, tell me please, how do you get your point?

It's really pointless to discuss this, especially with your excellent words!

I respect you.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

My God! Dear Salim, do you have any rational thoughts about history?!
Do you know what role had Mao and his peers played in China's history?
Look at your history, tell me when did your country proclaimed and which country did it belong before that? You were separated out!

Mao indeed make some wrong decisions along some special periods, being cited clearly in govt text, but he was the most important one for china's liberation. Do you know haw chinese comments him, and how westerners do?
please, tell me please, how do you get your point?

It's really pointless to discuss this, especially with your excellent words!

I respect you.

I think you mistake me for a Pakistani.

Mao played a great role and of that there is no doubt and even in India, his role is acknowledged.

His treatise on guerilla warfare is world acclaimed.

But the issue I was mentioning was that what was anathema to the Communist - Capitalism and consumerism are the very pillars on which today China's prosperity and progress is engined on.

It means total rejection of the Communist philosophy and embracing an economic model that was reviled by Mao.

In short, Mao and his philosophy remains rejected and garbaged and whatever he hated has been embraced.

Thus, it is a salute of the Chinese people to Capitalism and rejection of the sacrifices of Mao and the other Communist heroes of the Revolution!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@ salim

simple words...

as tibet is to china
kasmir is to india..
both have issues.
but since tibet has been part of china for long time it will be part of china...where as Kasmir is a occupied territory by the indian forces.. 60 years of brutal forces.. and please go ask the common kasmiri about their miserable life... freedom they deserve...

Bugti is to dala lama
As lal masjid mullah is to Tibet monks..