Pakistan Beware, They Are Cornering China!

[indiapakistanfriendship]

why should you care? it's because you're looking at a one way ticket out of here. you've been pissing off quite a few members as well. so drop the username and reveal your true intentions, why you really here. i know you're from bharat rakshak so drop the act. now **** off.

Let the mods decide, not you or are you threatning me

Pissing off? I stand by what I say, I have read this forum for long enough to understand that though not perfect(but then who is perfect), still allows one to express opinions that are rational. So I care less to what you think.

Seems you have a practise of intolerence in that case you are free to put me under ignore, I am here or a good debate and you are not one among those acorss ther border I am eager to engage.

Bharath RAKSHAK? Yes I read Bharath Rakshak, Is there any rule that one should not read BR. I dont post there.

did you say "**** off?" I hope mods take notice

you're praising india because it was ready to make conventional war and pakistan was not? i think we proved ourselves capable when we rised up to the occasion in 2002. after all, your nation lined itself across the border before us to threaten to invade us. however, you didn't expect us to respond did you? when we didn't even have a BVR capable air force and our navy was hardly a threat, we still rose up to the challenge and more than proved ourselves to hold our ground. pakistan has gone to war with india and will also be ready to go to war with india

I did not say that!

Operation Parakram achieved what it set out to, restrain paksitan's support for Jihad in future and also bringing your government into negotiations. What would have been the point for us to go into war, what would have been the end objective of a war, nothing!

Unfortunately not all people think like you , fight? bomb the shit? fight till the death etc, there are many ways to win confrontation and war is the last one of it.

militancy was enough to bring you to war with us, wasn't it? after your parliament was attacked by our sponsored militancy, you threatened to go to war.

read my above post.

from your post above, i take it you don't care at all or you don't even show the least concern for women being raped, children killed, or innocent people tortured? where is your sense of justice? recently a mass grave filled with a thousand people was found, how do expect to answer that? are you just going to blame pakistan? kashmiri's don't want you, get it through your head.
Mass graves in Kashmir raise rights violation stink- Hindustan Times

\

I care about my country, everyone for me is equal, that also means that Kasmiris or anyone else is not more than equal in my eyes.

The rapes were reported and action is being taken. If you care so much about Kashmiris pull out your troops and make peace , our army shall vacate those areas.

blaming us is not going to stop kashmiri's from blaming india. i know kashmiri's will not blame pakistan for their women being raped by indian soldiers, most certainly not.

Blah blah and more blah. You are a failure as far as IOK is concerned, your leadership is recognising that it is futile to fight and waste resources for something thats never going to happen.

in the future, i don't even think you have to worry about pak support for jihadi's anymore. it will be homegrown in india, feeding off the muslims in your own population. you already lost control of some of your territory to the naxalites and soon kashmir, assam, etc. will be too much for you to handle. now that muslims want to estabilish islamic rule over india, i think you're heading for a lot more trouble.

You dont get it dont you, your free to dream as much as you like. Muslims are happy and making merry in India, they care less about you rather they care more about riding on the economic boom.

Kashmiris have not risen up enough for us to donate it to you, in otherwords they have failed you?

anyways sweet dreams

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Let the mods decide, not you or are you threatning me

Pissing off? I stand by what I say, I have read this forum for long enough to understand that though not perfect(but then who is perfect), still allows one to express opinions that are rational. So I care less to what you think.

Seems you have a practise of intolerence in that case you are free to put me under ignore, I am here or a good debate and you are not one among those acorss ther border I am eager to engage.

Bharath RAKSHAK? Yes I read Bharath Rakshak, Is there any rule that one should not read BR. I dont post there.

did you say "**** off?" I hope mods take notice



I did not say that!

Operation Parakram achieved what it set out to, restrain paksitan's support for Jihad in future and also bringing your government into negotiations. What would have been the point for us to go into war, what would have been the end objective of a war, nothing!

Unfortunately not all people think like you , fight? bomb the shit? fight till the death etc, there are many ways to win confrontation and war is the last one of it.



read my above post.

\

I care about my country, everyone for me is equal, that also means that Kasmiris or anyone else is not more than equal in my eyes.

The rapes were reported and action is being taken. If you care so much about Kashmiris pull out your troops and make peace , our army shall vacate those areas.



Blah blah and more blah. You are a failure as far as IOK is concerned, your leadership is recognising that it is futile to fight and waste resources for something thats never going to happen.



You dont get it dont you, your free to dream as much as you like. Muslims are happy and making merry in India, they care less about you rather they care more about riding on the economic boom.

Kashmiris have not risen up enough for us to donate it to you, in otherwords they have failed you?

anyways sweet dreams

and they say i'm not using facts and logic.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

it wasn't threat, it was a warning. i'm not a mod, but i think some people have noticed his unusual attitude. especially when he takes a username the clearly reflects the opposite.

If at all you can read all my posts, the underlying fact I emphasise is let us leave Kashmir issue out, settle it with converting LOC to IB and let us live in peace.

I am not a war mongerer like you , that said I am pragmatic in what I say.

If ever you can understand what one posts

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

and they say i'm not using facts and logic.

Can you prove me otherwise.

I asked you to show the proof that Kashmir conflict is simmering like the way in bosnia or chechenya or Sl. If you cant never mind replying.

But then what amn I doing replyimg to your oneliners

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

As far as raping etc, I am not surprised that you should feel so. After all, when one has no facts to offer, one tends to go to the usual stuff that can be bandied about since society thinks that men in uniform all over the world including Pakistan, have nothing else to do but rape around.

"rape" is a very sensitive word, salim. hindutva fanatics rock their children to sleep telling them bed-time stories of how muslim invaders raped "a ga jillion" women. likewise, i also take it very seriously when a women is raped, regardless of what her faith be.

if there were any pak soldiers who raped bengali women in bangladesh, i would have had them castrated and then stoned to death if i was in charge. nothing pisses me off more than women being raped and i think you feel the same.

i don't let patriotism get in the way of justice, my religion requires me to deliver immediate justice when necessary. unfortunately some indians i've argued with don't care the least bit for the women being raped by horny soldiers.

 

[Flintlock]

Lying media such as Rediff, CNN, BBC must be banned from the scene of crime to prevent them from cheating the world.

gpit, the BBC is one of the oldest and most respected media corporations in the world. They practically invented objective journalism, the documentary film, and set the global standards for reporting.
Not much can be said about spineless mouthpieces like xinhua.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

i've been debating ever since i got here and unfortunately i've had member who voiced himself on my "incredible 357 posts". lately, i'm not in the mood of debating.

it wasn't threat, it was a warning. i'm not a mod, but i think some people have noticed his unusual attitude. especially when he takes a username the clearly reflects the opposite.

Warning?

And you are not a Mod!!

Some people have noticed his unusual attitude.

Almost like the Communist nations where you are supposed to report even against your father and mother!

1984 revisited!

Big Brother watching you!!

Sorry. The little that I know of this forum and its Moderators, those days are no longer here. Emancipation is the keyword and it has become better than many a forum that I know.

I don't think ordinary members can assume the mantle of Mods. no matter how good their intentions maybe. If it were so, it would lead to chaos.

 

[Flintlock]

To adopt a system is not for the sake of adopting the system. It is meant to enhance the people’s life to the best with a system that fits the social soil.

If democracy creates a bad government that can’t serve the people, what’s the use of democracy? Why don’t pick up a system that can serve people better?

Gpit, there are several reasons why democracy works best in India, and communism will not. There is not point discussing that here, but just to let you know.

One of the things often said about India, is that whenever social change takes place, it is from the bottom-up, and not the top-down. The local people take matters into their own hands and improve their lives. The existence of democracy helps such movements.

In China, its the other way round. The people have no say in their affairs, but are told what to do and how to do it by a magistrate who is presumably more enlightened.

Which method works better? That is a matter of discussion.
If the speed of implementation is considered, then surely the dictatorial/communist method comes out on top, simply because there is no debate but just action.
However, if one is looking to innovate, develop local solutions to local problems, take people into confidence, and above all, look to the people for ingenuity and ideas, then democracy comes out on top.
The pace is slower of course, because of the amount of dissent/disagreement/vested interests.

Sometimes a mix of totalitarianism and democracy works best, Singapore is the best example.
If there is anything to learn, it is that there is no black or white. Democracy is not a magic-pill that will cure all the ills of a society.

You must remember that the rise of Asia today, is solely dependent on ideas developed in the west, starting with the renaissance, into the industrial age and the modern period. Without these ideas, China and Asia for that matter, would be still locked in the feudal period.

What China has done is unique in the history of the world. it has imported the models of development wholesale from the west, thus completely bypassing debate among its citizens, and is implementing them at breathtaking pace, which it is able to do because of its authoritarianism.
This is fine in the short run. But what next? What when the flow of ideas stops from the west to east? Chinese people will have to think on their own. And when people start thinking, they think all sorts of things. Some of these things are not liked by the government, because they pose a threat to their authority.
Will Chinese society mature enough to handle dissent?

India has a much better future in the long term, provided the current chaotic situation sorts itself out. As I said earlier, India will change when its citizens demand change, not when the government decides that it is time for people to change.
Somehow, I think that bottom-up change is more authentic, and more lasting than top-dpwn, because people know what they are doing, and why they are doing it.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

"rape" is a very sensitive word, salim. hindutva fanatics rock their children to sleep telling them bed-time stories of how muslim invaders raped "a ga jillion" women. likewise, i also take it very seriously when a women is raped, regardless of what her faith be.

if there were any pak soldiers who raped bengali women in bangladesh, i would have had them castrated and then stoned to death if i was in charge. nothing pisses me off more than women being raped and i think you feel the same.

i don't let patriotism get in the way of justice, my religion requires me to deliver immediate justice when necessary. unfortunately some indians i've argued with don't care the least bit for the women being raped by horny soldiers.

So you are a Hiduvta fanatic to know all this!!

Good heavens, what are you doing in Pakistan?

But I also agree with you that rape is just not acceptable.

Please do not bring religion as the reason of holiness. All claim they are holy and all we see is a Holy Mess!!

To me religion is not anything super. To be a good human being is super!!

 

[Malang]

hindutva fanatics rock their children to sleep telling them bed-time stories of how muslim invaders raped "a ga jillion" women.

That list would usually include most Indians and followers of religion other than Islam usually.

likewise, i also take it very seriously when a women is raped, regardless of what her faith be.

Then you ought to be serious every second since a woman IMO is raped every second on this planet...

if there were any pak soldiers who raped bengali women in bangladesh, i would have had them castrated and then stoned to death if i was in charge.

operating phrase is if you were in charge..
Rape is a powerful weapon used by marauders, tyrants, invaders etc.

i don't let patriotism get in the way of justice, my religion requires me to deliver immediate justice when necessary. unfortunately some indians i've argued with don't care the least bit for the women being raped by horny soldiers.

unfortunately some I have talked to couldn't be bothered about tribal customs where Rapes are a way of carrying out justice as per religion...

 

[Flintlock]

freedom of expression in india?? lol thats like the funniest dam thing coming out of a indian..
Kasmir Kasmir Kasmir... again where is that your indian democracy freedom in Kasmir.. where is justice for thousands of indian muslims killed by hindu and hindu police? where is justice for innocent girls gang raped by indian police on daily biases..
where is your media in Kasmir??

Considering the poverty and illiteracy in India, it is quite amazing in fact, but yes, India is a very liberal society by any standards.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "hindu police". The entire government of Kashmir, including the "Hindu police" is made up of local kashmiris.

There is considerable media freedom in kashmir. That is the reason why several independent and foreign media agencies report from kashmir, human right groups are allowed, and separatists like geelani are given state police protection.

Say what you will, but the human rights record in kashmir is not much worse than anywhere else in India, or anywhere else in South Asia for that matter.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Troops martyr five more innocent Kashmiris
Troopers abduct girl, father missing in custody
Srinagar, April 02 (KMS): In occupied Kashmir, Indian troops in their fresh acts of state terrorism, martyred five more innocent Kashmiri youth at two different places.

Three dead bodies of Abdul Rashid Khan, Mohammad Aslam Khan and Javaid Ahmad Lone were recovered from the debris of a house destroyed with heavy mortar shelling during joint siege and search operation by Indian troopers of 3-Rashtirya Rifles and 93-battalion Central Reserve Police Force at Dudu Marhama in Bijbehara town while a civilian Jalil Ahmad was also injured in the operation. Two youth were shot dead at Dardpora in Bandipora.

Troops of 57-Rashtriya Rifles damaged a Jamia Masjid with heavy firing and burnt carpets worth Rs 2 lakhs inside the Masjid at Papachan in Bandipora.

Meanwhile, a group of Indian Territorial Army personnel abducted a girl and her father Ali Akbar from Batpora in Kupwara district.

The residents said the girl and her father were abducted by the troops of 160-Territorial Army (TA), deployed at Herri Camp on gunpoint during military operation and are missing since. The relatives of father and girl who met the commanding officer of the TA unit forced them to remain silent on the issue, they added.

The resident told mediamen that the Territorial Army unit has unleashed a reign of terror in Batpora area, adding they were helpless before the tyranny of the troops. “Troopers abduct our daughters and we are helpless, unable to do anything, watching this whole seen as mere spectators,” said Nasrullah Khan, a senior villager.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

fe14-emvZds[/media] - Kashmir - India

 

[Logic note]

After Tibet, Uighurs rise up in protest against China-China-World-The Times of India

After Tibet, Uighurs rise up in protest against China
2 Apr 2008, 1532 hrs IST,AFP

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BEIJING: China has accused Muslims in the nation's northwest of trying to start a rebellion, following what an exile group said were peaceful protests against injustices under Chinese rule.

The unrest occurred in China's Muslim-majority Xinjiang region last month, after Chinese authorities warned that "terrorists" based there were planning attacks on the Beijing Olympics and had tried to bomb a Beijing-bound plane.

In the latest event, extremist forces tried to incite an uprising in a marketplace in Khotan city on March 23, according to a statement from the local government posted on its website this week.

"A small number of elements... tried to incite a split, create disturbances in the market place and even trick the masses into an uprising," the statement said.

The statement said the people involved adhered to the "three evil forces," a Chinese expression that refers to separatism, religious extremism and terrorism.

"Our police immediately intervened to prevent this and are dealing with it in accordance with the law," added the statement.

Most of the population in Xinjiang, which borders Afghanistan and central Asia, are Muslim Turkic-speaking Uighurs, many of whom bridle at what they say have been 60 years of repressive communist Chinese rule.

Rights groups and Uighur exiles have alleged that China is trying to stoke fears about terror attacks in Xinjiang as an excuse to silence dissent and justify tight control there ahead of the Olympics in August.

In the Khotan unrest, an Uighur exile group said hundreds of people took to the streets on two occasions to protest over a local businessman who died in police custody and against a ban on women wearing traditional head scarves.

"The Uighurs began protesting after the killing of Mutallip Hajim, who had died in police custody," Alim Seytoff, head of the US-based World Uighur Congress said.

"The women were also protesting the ban on head scarves." The two protests included up to a total of 1,000 demonstrators, he said, adding that as many as 600 protesters had been detained.

Hajim, a wealthy jade trader and philanthropist, was taken into custody in Khotan in January, according to the US government-backed Radio Free Asia .

But his body was turned over to his family on March 3, with police instructing them to bury him immediately and inform no one of his death, it said.

Local police and the religious affairs bureau in Khotan, also known as Hetian, refused to comment on the protests or Hajim's case.

China initially raised the alarm over the alleged threat from Xinjiang on March 9 when it said a January raid on "terrorists" there had foiled a planned attack directed at the Olympics.

On the same day, it announced a 19-year-old Muslim woman had tried to bomb a Chinese Southern Airlines flight that had taken off from Urumqi, Xinjiang's capital, and was on its way to Beijing.

The Khotan protests have occurred as China has been trying to contain unrest on a much larger scale in neighbouring Tibet, a Buddhist region whose population similarly claim widespread repression under Chinese rule.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Tibet ripples reach Valley

MUZAFFAR RAINA

Srinagar, April 1: Nasir Ahmad and Abdullah Bhat want to protest the crackdown in Tibet. Not because, like Prakash Karat, they see a parallel with Kashmir but because they are Tibetan.

Bhat and Ahmad are two of several hundred “Muslim Tibetans” settled in Kashmir who consider the Dalai Lama their “leader”. They bear surnames like Qazi, Sheikh and Tramboo but their features resemble those of the Tserings and Lamas across the border in Himachal Pradesh.

“We are the children of Tibetan women and Kashmiri traders who had gone to Tibet seven centuries ago and settled down,” Ahmad, 35, said.

Many, like Ahmad’s grandfather Barkatullah Shakulli, had fled to Kashmir after the Chinese crackdown of 1959. Some 250 such families now live in Srinagar.......

“We are too small a community to take to the streets but we have sent a memorandum to the UN condemning the violence by China in Tibet,’’ said Bhat, vice-president of the Tibetan Muslim Youth Federation here.

Bhat and Ahmad said their ancestors had fled because of Chinese persecution that ended centuries of complete religious and cultural freedom granted by a Buddhist Tibet.

“Our forefathers followed Shariat laws,’’ Ahmad said. “We think it is time to reciprocate. We consider the Dalai Lama our leader. We want to convey to our Buddhist brothers in Tibet that we are with them in their hour of grief.”

Unlike other Tibetan refugees, the Kashmiri Tibetans are Indian citizens. “We vote in elections here. In 1959, the Centre had agreed that we were basically Indians, and the Chinese let us return after an agreement,’’ Ahmad said.

Photographs with the Kashmiri Tibetans show their forefathers wearing the dastaar (Kashmiri turban) and drinking tea from samovars, proving they had held on to some of their traditions.

Now they feel an identity crisis. They are called “Tibetans” despite their Kashmiri descent because of their features. They speak Tibetan at home though most are fluent in Kashmiri, too. Article 370 blocks them from government jobs or buying land.

“Yet most of us will stay here even if Tibet becomes free. But we want all the rights other Kashmiris enjoy,’’ Ahmad said.
The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Tibet ripples reach Valley