Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Dazzler]

Army's AK-1 requirement is pegged at 310 pcs, though only 220 are contracted as of now. So, it will be a while before the AK-2 is unveiled and put into production.

I heard they might cap the AK-1 production at 220 units?

 

[Ark_Angel]

IIRC the Haider MBT was meant to be off-the-shelf. If anything, I guess the biggest thing of interest to the PA is the VT4's armour technology. It's something HIT could absorb and scale across AK2 and AK1, AK, etc upgrades.

Not the Armour. VT-4 brings NCW in a way that is unprecedented in South Asia and will be unmatchable by the Adversary. The MS that the Indians are purchasing has a pretty solid armour but then there are a few concepts which the Indians can never understand. Those concepts will remain a mystery for the time being until we surprise the Adversary next time.

Would be worth disclosing some of those conditions so we and the future generations know what our leaders are up to and long term implications for the nation.

My advice: Work Hard, Reach the corridors of Power, Open Old Files and learn what could have been done alternatively.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Not the Armour. VT-4 brings NCW in a way that is unprecedented in South Asia and will be unmatchable by the Adversary. The MS that the Indians are purchasing has a pretty solid armour but then there are a few concepts which the Indians can never understand. Those concepts will remain a mystery for the time being until we surprise the Adversary next time.

I heard that the VT4 also introduces automation. It's the first step, but if the Chinese continue on the track they're on they could end up taking 1 man out of the mix, i.e., 2-crew tank. So, it's good exposure in that sense, the PA is going to see how it works first-hand, and put it to operational use.

 

[Ark_Angel]

I heard that the VT4 also introduces automation. It's the first step, but if the Chinese continue on the track they're on they could end up taking 1 man out of the mix, i.e., 2-crew tank. So, it's good exposure in that sense, the PA is going to see how it works first-hand, and put it to operational use.

02 Crew at the moment looks superficial to the baseline orthodox tanker. Either it should be Unmanned or the Crew should be 03. Not less. It will add extra strain on the the single crew who will be operating the Weapon Firing Station because the Driver is the driver! Plus in case of an issue with the Auto Loader e.g The feed mechanism faces some sort of a minor issue in the heat of the battle, what will be the way out? Will he change his focus on identifying the hostile enemy vehicles in a dangerous environment where seconds count or will be focusing on fixing the minor issues that can plague any Mechanical war fighting Vehicle? Aramta therefore seems to be dud ATM unless the Ruskies can improve their automation systems to a 1000% reliability-an area where the Ruskies are famous for-Unrealiabilty

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

i heard 250 units of sh15?
Yes i can verify 300 VT4 have been ordered, first shipment on its way ..

The SPH requirement was for 500 units. Originally, the MoDP said it'll buy 100 units from the OEM, and then co-produce/assemble the remaining 400 in Pakistan. So, my guess, the PA ordered 100 SH15s (it has already taken delivery of the guided shells), and the rest will come gradually in batches.

 

[Dazzler]

Some interesting info about the VT-4.

It comes with a new ap shell that can penetrate anything in the Indian armor with ease even at 30 degree angle
. Much higher values given. 750mm at 0 degree RHA not a problem.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

The SPH requirement was for 500 units. Originally, the MoDP said it'll buy 100 units from the OEM, and then co-produce/assemble the remaining 400 in Pakistan. So, my guess, the PA ordered 100 SH15s (it has already taken delivery of the guided shells), and the rest will come gradually in batches.

Any Idea about Remaining Italian M109L Stock. Is there still interest in procuring them. Procuring them was one of the better Decisions PA has made in Recent Years.

 

[waz]

02 Crew at the moment looks superficial to the baseline orthodox tanker. Either it should be Unmanned or the Crew should be 03. Not less. It will add extra strain on the the single crew who will be operating the Weapon Firing Station because the Driver is the driver! Plus in case of an issue with the Auto Loader e.g The feed mechanism faces some sort of a minor issue in the heat of the battle, what will be the way out? Will he change his focus on identifying the hostile enemy vehicles in a dangerous environment where seconds count or will be focusing on fixing the minor issues that can plague any Mechanical war fighting Vehicle? Aramta therefore seems to be dud ATM unless the Ruskies can improve their automation systems to a 1000% reliability-an area where the Ruskies are famous for-Unrealiabilty

Great points there. Years back (2002) I remember an excellent poster who was an ex American tanker, vet of Desert Storm (1990) and he said the same things regarding increased automation, he also argued with incredibly detailed posts the superiority of a four man crew to the three man plus autoloader setup.
It's sad he doesn't post anymore.

Some interesting info about the VT-4.

It comes with a new ap shell that can penetrate anything in the Indian armor with ease even at 30 degree angle
. Much higher values given. 750mm at 0 degree RHA not a problem.

I saw something on the Chinese working on a range of advanced munitions for tanks.

 

[Dazzler]

I heard that the VT4 also introduces automation. It's the first step, but if the Chinese continue on the track they're on they could end up taking 1 man out of the mix, i.e., 2-crew tank. So, it's good exposure in that sense, the PA is going to see how it works first-hand, and put it to operational use.

For example, the MS version that the Indians dont have yet, introduced the following:

Gunner's Main Sight multichannel with sighting and thermal imaging channels, laser range finder, integrated laser control channel

Commander's sight combined panoramic with television and thermal imaging channels, laser range finder


Al khalid (baseline) has these from day one, since the first 15 prototypes. Guess we triumphed them and continue to do so big time.

Hilarious.

 

[waz]

For example, the MS version that the Indians dont have yet, introduced the following:

Gunner's Main Sight multichannel with sighting and thermal imaging channels, laser range finder, integrated laser control channel

Commander's sight combined panoramic with television and thermal imaging channels, laser range finder


Al khalid (baseline) has these from day one, since the first 15 prototypes. Guess we triumphed them and continue to do so big time.

Hilarious.

Yep I was surprised to read that they just introduced this to their tanks. Think about the years the PA have had in practice with such tech.

 

[PakFactor]

Great points there. Years back (2002) I remember an excellent poster who was an ex American tanker, vet of Desert Storm (1990) and he said the same things regarding increased automation, he also argued with incredibly detailed posts the superiority of a four man crew to the three man plus autoloader setup.
It's sad he doesn't post anymore.



I saw something on the Chinese working on a range of advanced munitions for tanks.

I remember reading his post long time back before I left PDF; one of his main points was if the auto loader fails the tank would be out until repairs done, and he posted the timing of auto loader and the crew and their was almost minimal to no difference within 1-3 seconds. Then he mentioned if the gunner or commander are out he can take the position. The auto loader will be limited based on its design and the crew can be trained alternatively. The risk factor was the ammo being placed and stacked vs separated.

If I'm not mistake the auto load once set can't change it ammo during combat unlike the manned crew.

 

[waz]

I remember reading his post long time back before I left PDF; one of his main points was if the auto loader fails the tank would be out until repairs done, and he posted the timing of auto loader and the crew and their was almost minimal to no difference within 1-3 seconds. Then he mentioned if the gunner or commander are out he can take the position. The auto loader will be limited based on its design and the crew can be trained alternatively. The risk factor was the ammo being placed and stacked vs separated.

If I'm not mistake the auto load once set can't change it ammo during combat unlike the manned crew.

Yes that's right. He also did great comparisons of the Al-Khalid and Arjun.

 

[ZAC1]

The SPH requirement was for 500 units. Originally, the MoDP said it'll buy 100 units from the OEM, and then co-produce/assemble the remaining 400 in Pakistan. So, my guess, the PA ordered 100 SH15s (it has already taken delivery of the guided shells), and the rest will come gradually in batches.

I think Top brass smells a new war coming

 

[Zulfiqar]

Yes that's right. He also did great comparisons of the Al-Khalid and Arjun.

His Id in old pdf was something like M1tanker.

I also remember those posts w.r.t Auto vs 4th crew.

His points are valid though.

 

[Bossman]

I think Top brass smells a new war coming

Yup, in fact most people are smelling it, Modi is slave to an ideology and there is a plan to the ideology, which is predictable. Plus he has painted himself into a corner in Kashmir and he thinks a limited war with Pakistan will help him get out.