Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Readerdefence]

ZTZ-99A tank
View attachment 627960 View attachment 627961 View attachment 627962 View attachment 627963 View attachment 627964 View attachment 627965

Hi what’s the engine HP for ZTZ-99
Thank you

Yes, it’s the latest generation.

Hi waz sorry to be off topic but is it a possibility to overcome the tank anomaly according to the Pakistani requirement and army opted for it Chinese have already done with Z10 helicopter
Also and soon army getting those also
Or it’s just a matter of priority to get these tanks first
Thank you

 

[waz]

Was it Zraver? He was alright. S-2 was one of my favorite posters along with JAD-33, great command over formal English and polite even when they were being trolled.

I engaged with them for a while on WAB (another forum that had mostly American and Western serving and veterans posting), but as the US-Pakistan relationship fell apart in those years, so did the relationships and tenor (towards Pakistan) on that forum. S-2 and a few others remained civil & engaged in good faith, but Zraver largely fell into the Indian camp.

It didn't help that the Indians had several retired military officers contributing there. One was a retired Brigadier General who has since passed away (Tiki Tam Tam) who was also a frequent commentator on this forum. The fact that WAB was largely run & frequented by military professionals meant that there was a certain degree of respect and deference extended to the Indian contributors (because of the presence of Indian military professionals) that was not extended as much to Pakistanis, especially as disagreements and tensions between the US & Pakistan over Afghanistan grew.

I was probably one of the last Pakistanis to stop posting there. It had gotten to the point that I wasn't comfortable voicing my views without concerns over being banned, and the Indians were allowed to spew hate and filth without check.

God this brings back memories, I was on there to with the same name that I've had for 20 years. The way you described things are exactly what happened. Some sections were hilarious especially the Mediterranean section with the Turks going at the Greeks and visa versa. You're right about the Indians they overrun the Asian section and with professionals among their ranks it was difficult to get a word in. The Chinese posters on there were great and fantastic allies of the Pakistani posters , and had our backs. I posted on the European section and Brits were nice.

S-2 I believe was mechanised infantry.

WAB was pretty much biased and anti Pak to say the least. Also posted there, rather glad it got closed.

Yep good bye, I remember many of us leaving and having the last word with them hahaha. They didn't last did they? Here we are going from strength to strength, long may it continue ameen.

Hi waz sorry to be off topic but is it a possibility to overcome the tank anomaly according to the Pakistani requirement and army opted for it Chinese have already done with Z10 helicopter
Also and soon army getting those also
Or it’s just a matter of priority to get these tanks first
Thank you

No don't worry the odd post is ok.
With the Turkish order on ice now due to the engine issue the Z-10 has been pushed as one of the major priorities.
But the crucial point to tackle now is the armour shortage.

 

[Zulfiqar]

There was two, M1 tanker was also a vet but also joked around a great deal. There was another who was always serious and had fantastic knowledge.

I now remember, there were 2 apart from that m21 sniper something guy IIRC.

I also posted on WAB for a month or so as well but left because of reasons described by others here.

 

[Readerdefence]

God this brings back memories, I was on there to with the same name that I've had for 20 years. The way described things are exactly what happened. Some sections were hilarious especially the Mediterranean section with the Turks going at the Greeks and visa versa. You're right about the Indian they overrun the Asian section and with professionals among their ranks it was difficult to get a word in. The Chinese posters on there were great and fantastic allies of the Pakistani posters and had our backs. I posted on the European section and Brits were nice.



Yep good bye, I remember many of us leaving and having the last word with them hahaha. They didn't last did they? Here we are going from strength to strength, long may it continue ameen.



No don't worry the odd post is ok.
With the Turkish order on ice now due to the engine issue the Z-10 has been pushed as one of the major priorities.
But the crucial point to tackle now is the armour shortage.

Hi waz thanks for the encouragement so I’ll come to the present postings so if we go by let’s say 50 percent less armour in Pakistan army what else they can have with less money wise to tackle the Indian armoured I mean should have invested more towards and killing things & also towards
Flying machines to tackle the Indian armour as we all know can’t match Indians one in one
So the best bet should be to destroy their columns as much as PA can from ground or air
Your input please
Thank you

 

[Dazzler]

So is the crew still safe with armored bin setup?

Much safer compared to the t90, 72.

 

[Beast]

So is the crew still safe with armored bin setup?

Blow off ammo panel is not some magical solution. Check out video of M1A1 for Saudi and Iraq where crew still cook despite having ammo blow off panel with ammunition ignited by ATGM.

 

[ziaulislam]

No bro not at all. The army faced a very lopsided armour shortage. The IA currently fields around 1,600 T-90'S, T-90MS's, that's a very large force, but also more importantly has quality with it, which made/makes it very dangerous.
The Al-Khalid of course is a match for the T-90 and our upgraded models with additional ERA and active protection systems are on par with the T-90MS, but again how many does the army field, around 600? It's just simply not enough.
The VT-4, especially with the numbers it is being inducted with gives the army a powerful punch and a tank which is superior in a fair few areas to what it faces. Artillery and troop transport are additions and can't simply substitute the workhorse of the battlefield nor blunt a concerted armoured push by the IA.
I thought PAF was doing quite well actually, I can't see any critical weaknesses.

and hence the question, if alkhalid matches t90 why was the production rate so slow..why all of sudden we bought VT4s..if numbers is the problem than a scale of alkhalid should have been the answer. The t90 deal was ordered 4-5 years back so army had time(trials being conducted since 2018)..
i would have argued that are up scale of alkhalid was needed..even we increase the rate form say 50 to 100 we would have got the numbers...
unless army thinks alkhalid is inferior to t90 and needed osmething better and or if VT4 is meant to be next-gen tank and will form the spearhead but i think India has no answer for now for the VT4..t90 on paper is vastly inferior to vt4..i am no expert so correct me if i am wrong

Arabs are funding Sh*t at the moment for Pakistani Defence forces. Even the 2.5+2.5 Bn from KSA &UAE came with stringent strategic conditions which I can't disclose here. Pakistani Kids need to stop fantasising about Arabs Armring Pakistan to the Teeth to make it its Militray Muscle. Those days are long gone and Pakistan has been replaced by Egypt as the future Military Arab Bulwark against Non Arab Adversaries, But Egyptians play it Smart, Rip off the Arabs while stay on the side lines in Yemen. ZERO Ground Troops comitted for Yemen while at the same time Stationing One Division Plus Troops in Jeddah not even Jizan who get paid by the Saudis all for doing nothing, 30 Bn Plus in Direct Contracts for the Egyptian Military all paid up by the Saudis and Emaratis(I am not even discussing the Economic Support that goes in Tens of Billions). For what? For Showing symbolically that We are with you in Operation Decisive Storm by Stationing Troops(non combat role), One Squadron of F-16s for Lobbing Bombs at Aden and Sana and a few ships in Non Combat role for the Saudi Eastern fleet. That's how you make money. Not by embarrassing your Allied by tabling resolution in Parliament and getting it rejected by a majority when they ask you for support in a Government to Government direct support.

Egypt..no offence but..well i won't bet on eygpt..we saw what happened to them in 1970s

 

[kongn]

and hence the question, if alkhalid matches t90 why was the production rate so slow..why all of sudden we bought VT4s..if numbers is the problem than a scale of alkhalid should have been the answer. The t90 deal was ordered 4-5 years back so army had time(trials being conducted since 2018)..
i would have argued that are up scale of alkhalid was needed..even we increase the rate form say 50 to 100 we would have got the numbers...
unless army thinks alkhalid is inferior to t90 and needed osmething better and or if VT4 is meant to be next-gen tank and will form the spearhead but i think India has no answer for now for the VT4..t90 on paper is vastly inferior to vt4..i am no expert so correct me if i am wrong

As far as i know khalid had 3 problems-
1.Price - many of its components are imported and depreciation of pak rupee made it much costlier than projected.Even high quality steel had to be imported due to failure of pak steel mill.
2.Spare parts issue due to poor state of ukraine industry.
3.Engine -maintainence issue and breakdown during fording .

VT-4 is better than T-90 bhisma but not T-90MS proryv-3 which is superior.India has around 1200 T-90 bhisma with 400 more on order.India doesnt yet have any T-90MS though this might provoke a reaction.
Compared to the 'indian' t-90,VT-4 gun and autoloader is basically same.But it has commander's independent viewer which is a definite advantage .
Protection is similar with composite armour plus ERA,neither having active/passive defences.Will depend on whether FY-4 chinese ERA is better than russian kontakt-5.
Mobility of VT-4 will be better if it comes with 1300 hp engine.
PA certain to deploy it with 6th armoured division in key sector of punjab.

Will be interesting to see whether IA ignores this and waits for next FRCV,or does a new acquisition.

 

[Beast]

There was a big debate on our side for this topic aswell when the chief designer of Type 99A was hinting a two men crew for our next generation MBT, don't know how far the project goes.

PLA tank crew complain, they want to stick to 3 men.

As far as i know khalid had 3 problems-
1.Price - many of its components are imported and depreciation of pak rupee made it much costlier than projected.Even high quality steel had to be imported due to failure of pak steel mill.
2.Spare parts issue due to poor state of ukraine industry.
3.Engine -maintainence issue and breakdown during fording .

VT-4 is better than T-90 bhisma but not T-90MS proryv-3 which is superior.India has around 1200 T-90 bhisma with 400 more on order.India doesnt yet have any T-90MS though this might provoke a reaction.
Compared to the 'indian' t-90,VT-4 gun and autoloader is basically same.But it has commander's independent viewer which is a definite advantage .
Protection is similar with composite armour plus ERA,neither having active/passive defences.Will depend on whether FY-4 chinese ERA is better than russian kontakt-5.
Mobility of VT-4 will be better if it comes with 1300 hp engine.
PA certain to deploy it with 6th armoured division in key sector of punjab.

Will be interesting to see whether IA ignores this and waits for next FRCV,or does a new acquisition.

All T-90 series no matter the latest are still inferior to VT-4. The level of VT-4 and handling plus sophistication in fact surpass many aspect of western MBT.

and hence the question, if alkhalid matches t90 why was the production rate so slow..why all of sudden we bought VT4s..if numbers is the problem than a scale of alkhalid should have been the answer. The t90 deal was ordered 4-5 years back so army had time(trials being conducted since 2018)..
i would have argued that are up scale of alkhalid was needed..even we increase the rate form say 50 to 100 we would have got the numbers...
unless army thinks alkhalid is inferior to t90 and needed osmething better and or if VT4 is meant to be next-gen tank and will form the spearhead but i think India has no answer for now for the VT4..t90 on paper is vastly inferior to vt4.

Ulkarine has lost all abilities to continue their production due to economic decline and war. Many skill work forces left for better paid job and Ukraine production need fund to upgrade

Al khalid tank worst decision is to depend on Ulkraine for tank engine.

VT-4 engine is totally different from Ulkraine UTD-2 diesel engine and cannot replace it.Even the dimension is different. VT-4 engine are big and cannot fit into Al Khalid MBT.

Instead of just trying to solves the engine problem. Chinese advise PA to buy VT-4 which not only solves the engine problem for Al Khalid but further upgrade it's tank fleet capabilities.

 

[zhxy]

Pakistan can buy both types of tanks. 150 T-90MS proryv-3 and 150 VT-4.

 

[Dazzler]

As far as i know khalid had 3 problems-
1.Price - many of its components are imported and depreciation of pak rupee made it much costlier than projected.Even high quality steel had to be imported due to failure of pak steel mill.
2.Spare parts issue due to poor state of ukraine industry.
3.Engine -maintainence issue and breakdown during fording .

VT-4 is better than T-90 bhisma but not T-90MS proryv-3 which is superior.India has around 1200 T-90 bhisma with 400 more on order.India doesnt yet have any T-90MS though this might provoke a reaction.
Compared to the 'indian' t-90,VT-4 gun and autoloader is basically same.But it has commander's independent viewer which is a definite advantage .
Protection is similar with composite armour plus ERA,neither having active/passive defences.Will depend on whether FY-4 chinese ERA is better than russian kontakt-5.
Mobility of VT-4 will be better if it comes with 1300 hp engine.
PA certain to deploy it with 6th armoured division in key sector of punjab.

Will be interesting to see whether IA ignores this and waits for next FRCV,or does a new acquisition.

Mate, seriously, if you don't know. Don't throw arrows in the air. MS is what Al-khalid was 15 years ago. Do some reading before commenting.

 

[LKJ86]

Hi what’s the engine HP for ZTZ-99

The engine of ZTZ-99 is 1200 HP, while that of ZTZ-99A is 1500 HP.

 

[Armchair]

Was it Zraver? He was alright. S-2 was one of my favorite posters along with JAD-33, great command over formal English and polite even when they were being trolled.

I engaged with them for a while on WAB (another forum that had mostly American and Western serving and veterans posting), but as the US-Pakistan relationship fell apart in those years, so did the relationships and tenor (towards Pakistan) on that forum. S-2 and a few others remained civil & engaged in good faith, but Zraver largely fell into the Indian camp.

It didn't help that the Indians had several retired military officers contributing there. One was a retired Brigadier General who has since passed away (Tiki Tam Tam) who was also a frequent commentator on this forum. The fact that WAB was largely run & frequented by military professionals meant that there was a certain degree of respect and deference extended to the Indian contributors (because of the presence of Indian military professionals) that was not extended as much to Pakistanis, especially as disagreements and tensions between the US & Pakistan over Afghanistan grew.

I was probably one of the last Pakistanis to stop posting there. It had gotten to the point that I wasn't comfortable voicing my views without concerns over being banned, and the Indians were allowed to spew hate and filth without check.

I remember that time, and this was something that had repeatedly happened in other channels. Back in the early 2000s, I largely was a silent spectator until I saw Pakistani posters being attacked left right and center, and the Indians being given a free hand. This made me start my first account, a troll account just to defend the Pakistanis.

I would do things like start a thread that "LCA is better than the F-22" and the Indians would jump in thinking this was a "do" and then I'd turn it into a parody. A point was reached were I was getting info being sent to me by some banned Pakistani members and I was simply using that info to make the Indians dance, while getting the goras confused.

In the early 2000s, there were no strong Pakistani defense forums, even Pakdef had very few members. Pakistanis and other "brownies" had to go to gora sites to get their fill. And these gora sites had really good technical info from war fighters to engineers and scientists.

As more and more Pakistanis got banned or cut short, Pakistani defense sites mushroomed everywhere. And now, it seems places like this PDF are far better and more interesting than those of even the West. How the tables have turned. India could not follow, as their forums are nationalistic feel good sites, not real military technical forums in any meaningful sense.

I'm quite surprised to see so many sites of the past, like keypub now has gone to the gutter with very few members left. It's as if Pakistan has stolen a march on both the Indians and the West.

 

[serenity]

VT-4 is not better than T90MS type roughly the same level of commander equipments but VT-4 just have more armor and heavier than MS version. VT-4 advantage is just in armor and GL5 protection system which can able to defend against rocket based attack like antitank missile. VT-4 is much better than PLA own 96B with more advanced top using many technology from 99A and commander equipment. Engine is okay power with 1200 or 1300 horse power for this over 50 tonnes. Very poor side armor and everywhere else except for front. FY4 is very amazing although and new fang yin reaction armor is even more advanced and can protect side and top very well. It is modular design and can fit into older tanks. Wait for the newest react armor plates. Will become amazing against currently used penetration rod. Americans will make newer penetration rods for this new armor.

VT-4 purchase because for the price it is actually amazing capability. Cheaper because PLA already make thousands of 96 and close to thousand 99 several hundred 99A so costs are totally controlled easily due to huge manufacturing orders. VT-4 just has many luxury items 96B cannot afford to supply all thousand with. Russian T90MS also one of best equipped for commander and crew, excellent power for weight, very good weapons too and newer gun using electroslag melting technique like Chinese ZPT-98 which combine 2a46 design with some German technologies and material science technique. Chinese ZPT-98 has for longest time used and achieved much higher muzzle projectile velocity through highest chamber pressure because one way for Chinese tank commanders to balance poorer penetration of Chinese ammunition. Soviet and Chinese ammunition quality and penetrator rod did not possess same level as western types for a long time especially due to using autoloader machinery which limit length for a long time. Now it's different totally but ZPT-98 still has highest chamber pressure so PLA cannot afford too many 99 and focus mostly on 96B because it can perform almost the same level for much cheaper price.

So how can VT-4 better than T90MS. T90MS is similar with 99A philosophy of high capability tank but also comes with price. VT-4 is nice in between because much better than 96B with automatic remote control machine gun, GL5, and some nice equipment with modern generation thermal vision and night vision and true hunter style.

 

[IblinI]

VT-4 is not better than T90MS type roughly the same level of commander equipments but VT-4 just have more armor and heavier than MS version. VT-4 advantage is just in armor and GL5 protection system which can able to defend against rocket based attack like antitank missile. VT-4 is much better than PLA own 96B with more advanced top using many technology from 99A and commander equipment. Engine is okay power with 1200 or 1300 horse power for this over 50 tonnes. Very poor side armor and everywhere else except for front. FY4 is very amazing although and new fang yin reaction armor is even more advanced and can protect side and top very well. It is modular design and can fit into older tanks. Wait for the newest react armor plates. Will become amazing against currently used penetration rod. Americans will make newer penetration rods for this new armor.

VT-4 purchase because for the price it is actually amazing capability. Cheaper because PLA already make thousands of 96 and close to thousand 99 several hundred 99A so costs are totally controlled easily due to huge manufacturing orders. VT-4 just has many luxury items 96B cannot afford to supply all thousand with. Russian T90MS also one of best equipped for commander and crew, excellent power for weight, very good weapons too and newer gun using electroslag melting technique like Chinese ZPT-98 which combine 2a46 design with some German technologies and material science technique. Chinese ZPT-98 has for longest time used and achieved much higher muzzle projectile velocity through highest chamber pressure because one way for Chinese tank commanders to balance poorer penetration of Chinese ammunition. Soviet and Chinese ammunition quality and penetrator rod did not possess same level as western types for a long time especially due to using autoloader machinery which limit length for a long time. Now it's different totally but ZPT-98 still has highest chamber pressure so PLA cannot afford too many 99 and focus mostly on 96B because it can perform almost the same level for much cheaper price.

So how can VT-4 better than T90MS. T90MS is similar with 99A philosophy of high capability tank but also comes with price. VT-4 is nice in between because much better than 96B with automatic remote control machine gun, GL5, and some nice equipment with modern generation thermal vision and night vision and true hunter style.

Appreciated your effort but doesn't make much sense.