Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Dazzler]

What I heard is only thing Pakistan didn't liked was Z-10 engine. Is it true I mean is engine only issue with Z-10 ?

Engine and some recommendations to further improve its effectiveness as a weapon system.

 

[Arsalan]

Even from my source I give news I hardly have clue about weapons. I am in learning process as for radar I am talking about the above thing what ever that is. Members tell me that this really high tech thing and I have no clue but what I have heard is that it pretty much brings MI-28 to Apache level. As for fire power well I just did some research sorry I was wrong it also can carry maximum 16 Anti Tank Missiles. By the way with current engine can Z-10 can carry 16 Anti Tank Missiles or not and How about T-129 ???

We are all in the learning process bahi. I would just like to say that do not believe in EVERYTHING the "sources" say as there always is a right time to break the right news.
Anyway, the "thing on top" is a MMW radar (millimeter wave radar). Apache uses one named longbow and thus the helicopter name Apache Longbow Helicopters. It is a very high frequency radar system used as a short range fire control system. This enhances the target accusation and engaging capability in day-night poor visibility conditions and that is the edge it brings. The MMW can give a very high detailed picture of the battlefield for better situationl awareness and can locate multip ground targets for engagement. HOWEVER, Both Z10 and T129 will have a MMW radars so that is why i asked you the question about the added advantage. Again, the Z10 also comes with a MMW FCR. On a side note, the MMW radar on Ka50 (Russian) and Mi28 (Ukrainian) weigh about 150 KG and the Chinese one is around 70 Kg.
About weapon load, Yes, Z10 can also carry 16 HJ-10 missiles!

There's always the Denel Aviation Rooivalk.

Remember, the Rooivalk uses the same engines as the Puma. In fact, Airbus Helicopters (the makers of the Puma today) signed an MoU with Denel to collaborate on the continued development of the Rooivalk.

Much of the R&D cost has been written down, and what's left is the amount necessary to conduct upgrades (namely in terms of weapons and electronics - all available off-the-shelf).

The country to partner with Denel and serve as the launch customer will get transfer-of-technology and co-production rights.

http://quwa.org/2016/06/19/profile-denel-rooivalk/

That chapter is closed now sir.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

About weapon load, Yes, Z10 can also carry 16 HJ-10 missiles!

I am still looking towards a Z10 picture equipped with 16 ATGM's ...

even in Pakistan it is using 8 ATGM's and small rocket pods of 7 each (it isn't using standard rocket pod of 19 each) along with ATGM's

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

The price of the T 129 forces some to come up with excuses in comparison to ther rivals' abilities and prices; maybe for some discount moves, who knows?

Turkey should not sell these birds to Pakistan, India is really a promising country at every level for Turkish industry.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The price of the T 129 forces some to come up with excuses in comparison to ther rivals' abilities and prices; maybe for some discount moves, who knows?

Turkey should not sell these birds to Pakistan, India is really a promising country at every level for Turkish industry.

Indians are going for Apaches

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Indians are going for Apaches

Dear Expert, I have not specified industry with Defence, but said Turkish industry; India does not have to buy any weapon from Turkey, It is ok as long as its market wide open to Turkish industry. With such sales to Pakistan, Turkey puts some distance to India.

 

[scionofPakwattan]

Dear Expert, I have not specified industry with Defence, but said Turkish industry; India does not have to buy any weapon from Turkey, It is ok as long as its market wide open to Turkish industry. With such sales to Pakistan, Turkey puts some distance to India.

Traditionally Turkey has always focused on the western markets and India has been a closed economy for the most part, naturally now as both these factors change, Turkey and india have started engaging in trade and commerce. But you cant compare all the economic value of relations with india to the strategic value of relations with Pakistan.Pakistan is a major Turkish ally in the Muslim world and an ideological partner too. Their militaries are positioned similarly in their respective societies.

 

[cabatli_53]

While making sharp turns at certain angles, the airframe shakes. The engine itself is a big no no. No fly by wire flight control. The price for the performance it has shown in trials is not justified.

I need to give some info regarding the subjects you issued.

1- Engine is the most satisfied part of T-129 Atak at hot-high performance. They were tested on most harsh conditions of both Turkey, S. Africa during prototype phase and given OK. It is the reason same turbo-shaft engine is selected for Turkey's 5t domestic twin engine utility helicopter project until domestic 1400hp turboshaft is operational.
2- Availability (or not) of FBW a flight control system can not be counted as a problem but an option, Since Turkey has developed a fly by wire system which is being used on Hurkus trainer. T-129 Atak has four-axis automatic flight control system, weapon control system and mission control computer which offers an advanced navigation control parameters at even assymetric payload conditions in accordance with requirements of mission. Turkish Army pilots have satisfied.
3- According to reports, The shaking level of T-129 Atak (5 rotor blade) is less than the copters having (2 rotor blades) such as AH-1W, AH-1S/P. Not an issue whether It is making sharp turns at certain angels because Sharp turns always effect shaft or jet or fan powered aircrafts.
4-How did you reach the offered price that You are comparing price/performance ?

 

[Blue Marlin]

Dear Expert, I have not specified industry with Defence, but said Turkish industry; India does not have to buy any weapon from Turkey, It is ok as long as its market wide open to Turkish industry. With such sales to Pakistan, Turkey puts some distance to India.

thing is that turkey has banned selling lethal weapons to india.

 

[Arsalan]

I am still looking towards a Z10 picture equipped with 16 ATGM's ...

even in Pakistan it is using 8 ATGM's and small rocket pods of 7 each (it isn't using standard rocket pod of 19 each) along with ATGM's

Sorry i missed you point, are you looking FOR a picture with 16 ATGM? or are you looking at one?
Furthermore, do not worry too much about a picture not being available. This payload can be worked up from multiple sources, you can even find weight of a HJ10 and add up 16 to get a better idea. The platform is able to carry 16 ATGM as per almost all the sources.

Do share the picture if you have it or we should d look for one and might find it.

 

[TOPGUN]

Honesty , is see the Z-10 as the winner and many of us know that then why talk further about T-129 ?

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

thing is that turkey has banned selling lethal weapons to india.

... in order to make some Pakistanis happy, resulting in bad relationship with India that is a bigger opportunity for Turkish Industry which is right now encircled by problems of neighbours.

I remember that confession made by an AKP member, and was the stupidest thing ever considering no gain in Pakistani market, but harm in Indian market for Turkish industry.

 

[Path-Finder]

... in order to make some Pakistanis happy, resulting in bad relationship with India that is a bigger opportunity for Turkish Industry which is right now encircled by problems of neighbours.

I remember that confession made by an AKP member, and was the stupidest thing ever considering no gain in Pakistani market, but harm in Indian market for Turkish industry.

you talk like Pakistan is forcing you away from selling your hardware to india. we are not like indians that go around the world making deals that part parcel includes not selling hardware to Pakistan to favour india. if you want to sell them your gizmos then sell it to them and don't use Pakistan as a hurdle in your sale pitch!

 

[Corsair255]

The Rise of the T129 “Atak” over the Himalayas

The T129 “Atak” Advanced Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopter has now reached yet another critical milestone in its operational history. Having been successfully deployed in the Pakistan Army Aviation Base in Multan, during approximately 15 days, the T129 “Atak” Helicopter’s wide capability range has been put to the test by the Pakistan Army Aviation authorities.
T129 “Atak” Beats the Heat 50°C & Altitude 14.000 f.t.
T129 “Atak “Helicopter has proven its deployability with the Pakistan operation in May 2016. It was loaded into a cargo aircraft in TAI’s Ankara facilities by 6 technicians, within just one hour. After it was transferred to the Army Aviation Base in Multan, it took again just an hour to be operational.
Throughout the testing activities, the T129 “Atak” Helicopter flew to the highest and hottest regions of Pakistan Pano Aquil-Chor (50°C), which followed by Quetta, to conduct the mission profile of the Pakistani Army.
During the 7 flight sorties performed, Pakistani pilots had the chance to test the helicopter in day and night conditions with MTOW of T129 “Atak” (5.000kg) at 23°C @ 14.000 ft. Thanks to the dual identical cockpit approach, a game changer introduced by TAI, Pakistani pilots had the opportunity to perform both pilot and gunner roles, from both cockpits.

Terrific Performance
Performance of the T129 “Atak” Helicopter was evaluated thoroughly during the hottest and highest conditions of Pakistan, evidently the one of the most demanding of the world.
Following a two-hour long cockpit familiarization training provided by the TAI instructor and test pilots, Pakistan Army Aviation pilots became accustomed to T129 “Atak” Helicopter’s cockpit. “This is the one and only helicopter that beats its brochure values with its terrific performance” said Pakistani pilots from Pakistan Army Aviation.
Within the scope of the Program, 59 (+32 optional) T129 “Atak” Helicopters will be delivered. As of today, 13 T129 Atak Helicopters have been delivered to Turkish Armed Forces and over 7000 flight hours were accumulated. T129 “Atak” has unique survivability features and asymmetric weapon delivery capability. The effective and precise weapon capability includes a 20mm turreted gun with a 500 round capacity, 70mm unguided rockets, Mızrak guided anti-tank missiles, and Cirit 70mm guided air-to-ground missiles and Stinger missiles for air-to-air purposes.

Sorry but i can't add the link due to not to have the necessary permission.
You can visit defenceturkey web site check defenceturkeymagazine all issues and then pick issue "69"

 

[TOPGUN]

Great news but I still don't think it will enter service with PAA again I could be wrong !!

The Rise of the T129 “Atak” over the Himalayas

The T129 “Atak” Advanced Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopter has now reached yet another critical milestone in its operational history. Having been successfully deployed in the Pakistan Army Aviation Base in Multan, during approximately 15 days, the T129 “Atak” Helicopter’s wide capability range has been put to the test by the Pakistan Army Aviation authorities.
T129 “Atak” Beats the Heat 50°C & Altitude 14.000 f.t.
T129 “Atak “Helicopter has proven its deployability with the Pakistan operation in May 2016. It was loaded into a cargo aircraft in TAI’s Ankara facilities by 6 technicians, within just one hour. After it was transferred to the Army Aviation Base in Multan, it took again just an hour to be operational.
Throughout the testing activities, the T129 “Atak” Helicopter flew to the highest and hottest regions of Pakistan Pano Aquil-Chor (50°C), which followed by Quetta, to conduct the mission profile of the Pakistani Army.
During the 7 flight sorties performed, Pakistani pilots had the chance to test the helicopter in day and night conditions with MTOW of T129 “Atak” (5.000kg) at 23°C @ 14.000 ft. Thanks to the dual identical cockpit approach, a game changer introduced by TAI, Pakistani pilots had the opportunity to perform both pilot and gunner roles, from both cockpits.

Terrific Performance
Performance of the T129 “Atak” Helicopter was evaluated thoroughly during the hottest and highest conditions of Pakistan, evidently the one of the most demanding of the world.
Following a two-hour long cockpit familiarization training provided by the TAI instructor and test pilots, Pakistan Army Aviation pilots became accustomed to T129 “Atak” Helicopter’s cockpit. “This is the one and only helicopter that beats its brochure values with its terrific performance” said Pakistani pilots from Pakistan Army Aviation.
Within the scope of the Program, 59 (+32 optional) T129 “Atak” Helicopters will be delivered. As of today, 13 T129 Atak Helicopters have been delivered to Turkish Armed Forces and over 7000 flight hours were accumulated. T129 “Atak” has unique survivability features and asymmetric weapon delivery capability. The effective and precise weapon capability includes a 20mm turreted gun with a 500 round capacity, 70mm unguided rockets, Mızrak guided anti-tank missiles, and Cirit 70mm guided air-to-ground missiles and Stinger missiles for air-to-air purposes.

Sorry but i can't add the link due to not to have the necessary permission.
You can visit defenceturkey web site check defenceturkeymagazine all issues and then pick issue "69"