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Pakistan Army Small Arms

No sir, I am pretty sure. There was a Janes article and then an interview too from the ex-Joint Chiefs of Staff or something. The general said that they always planned to get grenade launchers and 5.56 only problem had been finance and he even admitted that that might be a problem this time round too and they will go for the best/economical package. Also have you heard of the Army Magzine Hilal? I read an article about soldiers testing out the G-41 there in Sialot or something.

Either way to do hope we get a 5.56, G-3 are just too damn heavy.

Absolutely spot on. According to my information, the options for the 5.56 are being considered and studied at the moment.
I think that after the reshuffle at the senior level, Gen. Kayani and his team would be looking at modernizing various elements including the approval of the 5.56 caliber weapons.
 
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As of now several European firms are still vying for the rifle contract...but I think we should add the Turkish Mehmetcik-1 variable as well. Unlike other NATO rifles, the Mehmetcik-1 was designed to be used by a very large number of soldiers - hence the Turks would have kept cost an issue in mind.
 
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No sir, I am pretty sure. There was a Janes article and then an interview too from the ex-Joint Chiefs of Staff or something. The general said that they always planned to get grenade launchers and 5.56 only problem had been finance and he even admitted that that might be a problem this time round too and they will go for the best/economical package. Also have you heard of the Army Magzine Hilal? I read an article about soldiers testing out the G-41 there in Sialot or something.

Either way to do hope we get a 5.56, G-3 are just too damn heavy.

just FYI, i had the honor to post the jane's article on the interview with CJSC. sure, the option is under study but no decision has been made so far (going on 2-yrs now). PoF wah would want complete ToT which may not be forthcoming except from the turks plus the financing of the project.
 
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Oh :(
Hey could you post the article here sir? So we can have a look...
 
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Fatman17 you still didnt tell me which Janes Product you have, Janes World Armies?
 
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what is this

7e4c46cf08dac0b80ee25eba57afc00f.jpeg

These are the Pakistan Air Force Special Forces and the rifle in their hands is the FN2000 (5.56mm). The Air Force is apparently not very happy with this rifle because of its bulk and high maintenance issues!
 
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I dont like them either, they look the too complicated to maintain sort. Styre Aug would have been the preferable option.
 
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I dont like them either, they look the too complicated to maintain sort. Styre Aug would have been the preferable option.

Actually the AUG Steyr Rifle was first sold in Pakistan to the FC troops in the early 90's. Afterward a few units were sold to the PN SSG. However both forces are not too happy with the rifle. The best rifle in my opinion is the M6 carbine (special forces M-16) with the short shoulder butt! Army SSG has a few of them (gifted by the US Delta force) and PN recently contracted them from the US in 7.62 caliber.

5.56mm ammunition is on its way out! FN Herstal tried to introduce the 5.7mm (in shape of P90) but has failed so far. The US Army and its special forces are also switching to the 7.62 caliber after learning the hard way against the one sided AK-47 shoot-outs in the streets of Iraq and the plains of Afghanistan.
 
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No sir, I am pretty sure. There was a Janes article and then an interview too from the ex-Joint Chiefs of Staff or something. The general said that they always planned to get grenade launchers and 5.56 only problem had been finance and he even admitted that that might be a problem this time round too and they will go for the best/economical package. Also have you heard of the Army Magzine Hilal? I read an article about soldiers testing out the G-41 there in Sialot or something.

Either way to do hope we get a 5.56, G-3 are just too damn heavy.

Kaskrin you are correct.

AFAIK the Pakistan Army is evaluating a 5.56mm weapon system. The talk about "tender" , "NATO" etc. is a bit misleading.

The original excerpt was:

"Pakistan's industry joins international competition for new NATO-standard rifle
Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) has supplied the Pakistan Army with trials PK-8 assault rifles as the Ministry of Defence (MoD) considers changing from 7.62 mm weapons to a 5.56 mm system.But POF is facing competition from international companies including FN Herstal, which has already supplied certain units within the Pakistan armed forces with 5.56 mm weapons.
[Jane's International Defence Review"

So the international competition is from the standpoint of POF and others competing to fulfill PA requirements for the new 5.56 mm infantry weapon.

Eventually more details emerged about the PK-8 in this article:

Pakistan tests assault rifle
Andrew White Jane's Land Reporter
London

The Pakistan Ministry of Defence (MoD) has procured 50 PK-8 assault rifles from Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) for evaluation tests as it considers changing calibre in line with NATO armed forces.

The PK-8, which fires the standard NATO 5.56 mm cartridge, has undergone tests in environments ranging from -40˚ C to +50˚ C and the system is being offered as a replacement for the army's existing armoury of 7.62 mm Heckler & Koch G3 assault rifles.

Complete with an Aimpoint optical sight and Picatinny rail for add-on ancillaries such as laser pointers and underslung grenade launchers, the PK-8 has a folding stock, shorter barrel and multiple parts commonality with its larger-calibre G3 relation, according to POF.

Any change in calibre for the army could see the procurement of around 500,000 assault rifles, although POF Director Syed Naseem Raza told Jane's that it was "very happy" with 7.62 mm weapon systems.

Industry sources at POF have recommended that any calibre change be gradually phased in, starting with procurements for the army's Special Service Group (SSG) and light infantry.

Currently, certain units within the Pakistan armed forces already use 5.56 mm systems.

Industry sources told Jane's that they were confident of seeing a new programme within a couple of years.

The army also uses 7.62 mm AK-47 assault rifles and 9 mm MP5 submachine guns.

Speaking at the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar in Karachi in 2006, General Ihsan, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff committee, said that a possible change from 7.62 mm to a more uniform NATO round was being considered.

However, Gen Ihsan admitted that there were "resource constraints" to consider before any decision was made: "We are very conscious of equipping our soldiers with the very best possible weapons and equipment, but we must prioritise our requirements," he said.

"We have paid substantial money into indigenous industry and we must first check this before we think about a changing calibre," said the general. Selecting the PK-8 means the MoD would not have to transfer technology from abroad to fulfil any contract.


Also the interview of the former CGS Lt Gen Tariq Majeed and VCoAS Gen Ahsan Slaeem Hayat about the need for Grenade launchers is here. They did not talk about a caliber switch though:

"The government has made serious efforts to improve our economy, and we have to be mindful that this progress on the economic front is not retarded. So affordability is always affected," said Gen Tariq. "We have to prioritise."

Army

The Pakistan Army is re-organising after the completion in 2005 of a comprehensive study focused largely on improving efficiency and the 'tooth-to-tail' ratio. Cost-cutting is another factor. This applies to both conventional and sub-conventional threats, the latter covering counter-terrorism operations and low-intensity conflict. Over 50,000 personnel have been trimmed from 550,000 by suspending recruitment and attrition through normal retirement. Existing units are also being brought up to strength, mainly by addressing equipment shortfalls. At the same time, command articulation arrangements are being improved through moves such as the grouping of loose elements.

Two other broad initiatives are also apparent: the creation of new forces to address critical imbalances and selective force modernisation. The creation of new forces is mainly pursued through pruning the authorised strength in various institutions and units; the latter influenced by the introduction of advanced technologies requiring less manpower.

Enhancement of special forces is one consequence.

"We are now at the stage where we will have a total review on the overall structure of the army and for that the studies are in progress," said Gen Tariq.

The army's immediate concern is centred on counter-terrorism operations in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, with over 80,000 troops deployed. General Ehsan Ul Haq, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff committee, says this has required a meaningful enhancement of capabilities.

"Airborne mobility, aerial surveillance, special forces and communications - these have become far more significant in our development priorities," he explained.

The need to improve tactical mobility led to the induction of 10 additional Kazan/Mil Mi-17 medium transport helicopters and 26 Bell 412EP multirole medium helicopters. These will be supplemented by around 20 refurbished AH-1F Huey Cobra close support/attack helicopters on order from the US for delivery in 18 months. The acquisition of the Mil Mi-35 attack/assault helicopter is under consideration.

"We are also looking very seriously at armed scout helicopters, with options from France and the US under study," noted Gen Ahsan.

In the area of surveillance, the army is looking to indigenously develop UAVs, but has meanwhile acquired from Germany the EMT Luna short-range battlefield reconnaissance, surveillance and target acquisition UAV. Three or four systems are likely to be obtained: the army's UAV system first.

Night-vision systems and improved weather radar systems are another priority, while communication capabilities have been partly addressed with military radios worth USD78 million, acquired from the US.

Much of this capability has gone to enhance the special forces, which centre on the three battalion-strong Special Services Group (SSG).

A recently issued request for tender involving 100 7.62 mm sniper rifles and 50 0.50 cal sniper rifles is most likely geared to these troops as well. The SSG will be expanded, though details are unclear, but it has meanwhile been augmented through the establishment over two years ago of the Special Operations Task Force (SOTF).

The battalion-plus SOTF received equipment and training support from the US. It has dedicated aviation support, night-fighting capability and a counter-terrorism mission. Additionally, the training of two battalions of regular infantry as a reaction force in two army corps areas is partly completed. Each of the nine corps headquarters should eventually have such units.

Conventional requirements include improved firepower. There is interest in obtaining additional long-range artillery, including multiple rocket launcher systems with a range beyond 80 km, and two long-standing programmes are focused on main battle tanks (MBTs). The artillery systems will be supported by the planned induction of an undetermined number of target acquisition radars, ideally the US-made AN/TPQ-37(V) Firefinder weapon-locating radar, while provision of night-fighting capability is another priority.

The MBT programmes involve the new Al Khalid, now entering service for deployment along the southern border with India, and the upgraded T-59. Both are fitted with a 125 mm smoothbore gun (the T-59 previously used a 105 mm gun) together with advanced systems and better armour protection. The Al Khalid has night-fighting capability while two thermal imaging systems, from Thales and Sagem, are being evaluated to equip the T-59.

Support elements are also slotted for improvement, most notably in ground-based air defence.

"We've had shortages and, in fact, gross inadequacies in the medium-altitude capability," said Gen Ahsan. Separately, Gen Tariq noted: "We have placed a bias toward missiles rather than guns and on point defence rather than area defence."

This concern will be partly addressed through the acquisition planned for 2007 of a new low-altitude missile air-defence system, which should be produced locally under licence. Several systems are currently under evaluation.

The Pakistan Army, Gen Ahsan notes, is predominantly foot-infantry based.

"We are looking to provide them with greater protection, including nuclear, biological and chemical protection. We also want to equip them with night-vision devices and some more firepower," he said.

"We always planned for the infantry to have grenade launchers, but never obtained them. We now hope to start gradually procuring these."
 
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Actually the AUG Steyr Rifle was first sold in Pakistan to the FC troops in the early 90's. Afterward a few units were sold to the PN SSG. However both forces are not too happy with the rifle. The best rifle in my opinion is the M6 carbine (special forces M-16) with the short shoulder butt! Army SSG has a few of them (gifted by the US Delta force) and PN recently contracted them from the US in 7.62 caliber.

5.56mm ammunition is on its way out! FN Herstal tried to introduce the 5.7mm (in shape of P90) but has failed so far. The US Army and its special forces are also switching to the 7.62 caliber after learning the hard way against the one sided AK-47 shoot-outs in the streets of Iraq and the plains of Afghanistan.

epool,

Its not M-6. Its Colt M-4 and it is also a 5.56 weapon system. SSG (specially SOTF) is widely equipped with this and the Steyr AUG. Even some of the police units are equipped with M-4. The SSG/N and SSG/A both use the AUG after induction by the Naval SSG first. Nothing was gifted to the Pak Army by the US Delta Force as such. They were simply bought through Colt under the FMS/EDA.

Someone had earlier asked about the 5.56 mm weapons in use by the Pakistan Army, thus far the following are in use or eval:

Colt M-4
Steyr AUG
FN P-90 (5.7mm)
Under evaluation:
PK-7 (5.56 version of the MP-5 - POF)
PK-8 (5.56 mm assault rifle as proposed by the POF)
 
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Fatman17 you still didnt tell me which Janes Product you have, Janes World Armies?

I have a subscription to Jane's Defence weekly with access to all JD archives for World's airforces, armies and navies. quite a extensive data base.
 
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Additionally, the training of two battalions of regular infantry as a reaction force in two army corps areas is partly completed. Each of the nine corps headquarters should eventually have such units.

Mate does this mean we have two battalions of rapid deployment infantry for each corp right now or is it two battalions total for two corps?
Also I was wondering how these 'Rapid reaction' forces will deploy? I reckon they will have a hard time doing it by helicopters and we dont even have infantry fighting vehicles. Maybe its just our good old APCs?
 
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^^^i think blain2 has covered the interview.
 
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I have a subscription to Jane's Defence weekly with access to all JD archives for World's airforces, armies and navies. quite a extensive data base.

Wow, how much did it cost? (I hope your wife is not around):P

What does the World's Army data-base have to say about the Pakistan Army? Could you please post it? Maybe just important bits like the Introduction or the offensive/defensive capability bits?:bounce:
 
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