Pakistan Army | News and Discussions

[muse]

@Xeric : I can post a link to a book written by Pakistan's Ambassador to Afghanistan (It can be read online) which documents the millions of $$$s we've spent in helping Afghanistan through various projects ! In fact here is it : Journey of Friendship - Pakistan's Assistance to Afghanistan

And now we've spent another $18mil on an Engineering block. In my conversations with Afghans both in the flesh & Afghans on the Internet - the hate for Pakistan & Pakistanis I've seen & the many statements that come from Afghanistan, I can't help but wonder whether all of it to the last dime was a waste....an absolute, incontrovertible waste.

I'd like your thoughts - @fatman17 @nuclearpak @muse @Abu Zolfiqar @chauvunist @Hyperion @Last Hope @Spring Onion @TaimiKhan @LoveIcon @Secur @haviZsultan @Areesh !

Is/Was the spending a waste? I don't think so - why not? Afghanistan though a sovereign state, also has a very special relationship with Pakistan, in very many ways, in ways that you will only understand when you are in Afghanistan for a while, Afghanistan is an extension of Pakistan, I don't mean that it is a territorial part of Pakistan, but rather the connectedness of the economy and in very many ways, for good and for bad, even it's political and cultural milieu, is a reflection of Pakistan and vice versa, the sheer volume of exchange, particularly the traffic of persons to and from is very poorly understood in Pakistan and less so in Afghanistan - Here Afghans can be forgiven, but Pakistan cannot, because the proliferation of media in Pakistan, the relative availability and ease of various communications portals, all these should have helped Pakistan understand it's brother neighbor better.

Do Afghans generally resent Pakistan? Yes, they do, and not just because of what they rightfully perceive as an idiot policy of Islamizing Afghanistan, after all, how well do we like it?? How deeply do we appreciate the bearded brigade with their murder, bombings and beheadings in the name of what they understand as religion??

But there is another aspect of this that many in Pakistan fail to see, Afghans are proud, and it hurts them to see that while their best aspirations are trampled on, while their nationalist spirit is seen as not just failed or failing but unworthy, that hurts and they lash out - After all, are they brother or not?? If not, then are they not right in resenting this misplaced Islamizing of Afghanistan?? And if we are brother (in reality there is no "if", we are brothers) then shall we not behave as if their best interest are also ours?

Pakistanis must be patient, not for the sale of Afghans but for the sake of Pakistan - we cannot wish them away, we cannot be rid of them, we must live with them, so why not live in a way that removes idiot barriers such as old prejudices that no longer serve us.

@Xeric : I can post a link to a book written by Pakistan's Ambassador to Afghanistan (It can be read online) which documents the millions of $$$s we've spent in helping Afghanistan through various projects ! In fact here is it : Journey of Friendship - Pakistan's Assistance to Afghanistan

And now we've spent another $18mil on an Engineering block. In my conversations with Afghans both in the flesh & Afghans on the Internet - the hate for Pakistan & Pakistanis I've seen & the many statements that come from Afghanistan, I can't help but wonder whether all of it to the last dime was a waste....an absolute, incontrovertible waste.

I'd like your thoughts - @fatman17 @nuclearpak @muse @Abu Zolfiqar @chauvunist @Hyperion @Last Hope @Spring Onion @TaimiKhan @LoveIcon @Secur @haviZsultan @Areesh !

Is/Was the spending a waste? I don't think so - why not? Afghanistan though a sovereign state, also has a very special relationship with Pakistan, in very many ways, in ways that you will only understand when you are in Afghanistan for a while, Afghanistan is an extension of Pakistan, I don't mean that it is a territorial part of Pakistan, but rather the connectedness of the economy and in very many ways, for good and for bad, even it's political and cultural milieu, is a reflection of Pakistan and vice versa, the sheer volume of exchange, particularly the traffic of persons to and from is very poorly understood in Pakistan and less so in Afghanistan - Here Afghans can be forgiven, but Pakistan cannot, because the proliferation of media in Pakistan, the relative availability and ease of various communications portals, all these should have helped Pakistan understand it's brother neighbor better.

Do Afghans generally resent Pakistan? Yes, they do, and not just because of what they rightfully perceive as an idiot policy of Islamizing Afghanistan, after all, how well do we like it?? How deeply do we appreciate the bearded brigade with their murder, bombings and beheadings in the name of what they understand as religion??

But there is another aspect of this that many in Pakistan fail to see, Afghans are proud, and it hurts them to see that while their best aspirations are trampled on, while their nationalist spirit is seen as not just failed or failing but unworthy, that hurts and they lash out - After all, are they brother or not?? If not, then are they not right in resenting this misplaced Islamizing of Afghanistan?? And if we are brother (in reality there is no "if", we are brothers) then shall we not behave as if their best interest are also ours?

Pakistanis must be patient, not for the sale of Afghans but for the sake of Pakistan - we cannot wish them away, we cannot be rid of them, we must live with them, so why not live in a way that removes idiot barriers such as old prejudices that no longer serve us.

 

[fatman17]

Funeral held for Pakistani peacekeeper killed in Congo


Pakist*an Army peacek*eeper, Subeda*r Tanvee*r Hussai*n was killed in action when a rebel group attack*ed his convoy.

By Web Desk

Published: May 14, 2013


The funeral of a Pakistan Army peacekeeper, Subedar Tanveer Hussain, who was killed in the Democratic Republic of Congo on May7 , 2013, was buried at his native village of Nakka Kahut, Tehsil Talagang, Chakwal on Tuesday.

RAWALPINDI: Pakistan Army peacekeeper, Subedar Tanveer Hussain, who was killed in the Democratic Republic of Congo on May 7, was buried in his native village in Chakwal on Tuesday.

Hussain was killed in a gunfight with a rebel group that ambushed the convoy of a UN peacekeeping mission, according to a press release from the Inter Services Public Relations.

A large number of military personnel attended the funeral.

Pakistan has demanded an investigation in to the attack.

Local officials had said last week that at least two people connected to the attack had been arrested.

The Pakistan Army has been partaking in UN peacekeeping missions since 1960, and more than 8,000 Pakistani soldiers are currently deployed in such missions all over the world.

135 Pakistani peacekeepers have been killed in action to date.

Is/Was the spending a waste? I don't think so - why not? Afghanistan though a sovereign state, also has a very special relationship with Pakistan, in very many ways, in ways that you will only understand when you are in Afghanistan for a while, Afghanistan is an extension of Pakistan, I don't mean that it is a territorial part of Pakistan, but rather the connectedness of the economy and in very many ways, for good and for bad, even it's political and cultural milieu, is a reflection of Pakistan and vice versa, the sheer volume of exchange, particularly the traffic of persons to and from is very poorly understood in Pakistan and less so in Afghanistan - Here Afghans can be forgiven, but Pakistan cannot, because the proliferation of media in Pakistan, the relative availability and ease of various communications portals, all these should have helped Pakistan understand it's brother neighbor better.

Do Afghans generally resent Pakistan? Yes, they do, and not just because of what they rightfully perceive as an idiot policy of Islamizing Afghanistan, after all, how well do we like it?? How deeply do we appreciate the bearded brigade with their murder, bombings and beheadings in the name of what they understand as religion??

But there is another aspect of this that many in Pakistan fail to see, Afghans are proud, and it hurts them to see that while their best aspirations are trampled on, while their nationalist spirit is seen as not just failed or failing but unworthy, that hurts and they lash out - After all, are they brother or not?? If not, then are they not right in resenting this misplaced Islamizing of Afghanistan?? And if we are brother (in reality there is no "if", we are brothers) then shall we not behave as if their best interest are also ours?

Pakistanis must be patient, not for the sale of Afghans but for the sake of Pakistan - we cannot wish them away, we cannot be rid of them, we must live with them, so why not live in a way that removes idiot barriers such as old prejudices that no longer serve us.



Is/Was the spending a waste? I don't think so - why not? Afghanistan though a sovereign state, also has a very special relationship with Pakistan, in very many ways, in ways that you will only understand when you are in Afghanistan for a while, Afghanistan is an extension of Pakistan, I don't mean that it is a territorial part of Pakistan, but rather the connectedness of the economy and in very many ways, for good and for bad, even it's political and cultural milieu, is a reflection of Pakistan and vice versa, the sheer volume of exchange, particularly the traffic of persons to and from is very poorly understood in Pakistan and less so in Afghanistan - Here Afghans can be forgiven, but Pakistan cannot, because the proliferation of media in Pakistan, the relative availability and ease of various communications portals, all these should have helped Pakistan understand it's brother neighbor better.

Do Afghans generally resent Pakistan? Yes, they do, and not just because of what they rightfully perceive as an idiot policy of Islamizing Afghanistan, after all, how well do we like it?? How deeply do we appreciate the bearded brigade with their murder, bombings and beheadings in the name of what they understand as religion??

But there is another aspect of this that many in Pakistan fail to see, Afghans are proud, and it hurts them to see that while their best aspirations are trampled on, while their nationalist spirit is seen as not just failed or failing but unworthy, that hurts and they lash out - After all, are they brother or not?? If not, then are they not right in resenting this misplaced Islamizing of Afghanistan?? And if we are brother (in reality there is no "if", we are brothers) then shall we not behave as if their best interest are also ours?

Pakistanis must be patient, not for the sale of Afghans but for the sake of Pakistan - we cannot wish them away, we cannot be rid of them, we must live with them, so why not live in a way that removes idiot barriers such as old prejudices that no longer serve us.

fair enough! some valid points. but i say fix your own house first - that US20m or US217m would have gone a long way to fix / upgrade the 50,000 'ghost' schools only in the province of Sindh..!!! - food for thought!

 

[fatman17]

....and the ungrateful afghans continue to 'hate' us - we gave shelter to 4-6m afghan refugees in the 80's and most of them have never left our country...what we got in return was the kalishnikov culture, drug culture...

 

[Argus Panoptes]

....and the ungrateful afghans continue to 'hate' us - we gave shelter to 4-6m afghan refugees in the 80's and most of them have never left our country...what we got in return was the kalishnikov culture, drug culture...

That is a typical story Sir. We did all that for Afghans, look at what we got in return. We did so much for USA, look at how they treated us. We do so much for Saudi Arabia and see what we get in return. May be the fault lies within us and not outside?

 

[Contrarian]

That is a typical story Sir. We did all that for Afghans, look at what we got in return. We did so much for USA, look at how they treated us. We do so much for Saudi Arabia and see what we get in return. May be the fault lies within us and not outside?

Stop trying to blame others. Pakistan has taken a pound of flesh for everything it has done for others.
Do you know why you have nuclear weapons - because in return for all that you do for Saudi Arabia, it has funded Pakistani nuclear weapons among many other things.

What Pakistan did for USA? Do you know in return what Pakistan has got from USA?
Pakistan has recieved extra ordinary economic aid, had its debts wiped off at best and delayed at worst by USA. Pakistan's economic boom every time it has happened is because USA was very generously picking up a lot of tabs. Pakistan was able to threaten India back in the good old days because Pakistan got the latest weapons from US almost as soon as US military got them.

Stop blaming others. Pakistan has recieved quid pro quo from every nation that it has helped.

 

[muse]

All these "sentiments" have their place but it is not in serious discussion - Kalashnikov and drugs ? why blame them only, we were and are active participants, simply look at the movement of opium tar, who is not stopping them from getting into Pakistan? Are they ungrateful? Can you imagine a US or European saying that to us? wouldn't we say that the US and European don't understand that 99 percent do not see any benefit from their assistance?

Could that money be spent on schools in Pakistan? sure - but just look at the money already being spent and how well it is being spent before we point to A'stan.

I think we should look at these things from the perspective of Pakistani interests - if law and order and use of proxy militia can be and will be controlled in Pakistan, it will have an automatic effect on the exact same things in A'stan --- build roads in A'stan that Pakistani business interests can find useful, build dams if you can sell the energy --- Sawaab without Kabaab is a recipe for failure, not just in Pakistan but the world over.

If A'stan is to grow, it cannot do so without the assistance of Pakistan, that means we have a strong interest in the growth of the Afghan economy - if the $3 trillion of raw materials in A'stan is to be exploited for the benefit of the Afghan nation, it cannot happen without the assistance of Pakistan --- it's time to begin thinking of A'stan in terms of a partner and stake holder and time to stop throwing the fact that we have and continue to assist A'stan in their faces - they are us and we are them, it's just the way it is ---- and if you cannot get over the "feeling" that there are ingrates in the world, lets first remedy that in Pakistan, after all, have we any shortage of Pakistanis who not only hate other Pakistanis but express that hate with guns, bombs, assassinations, kidnappings and every variety of criminal activity.

So, friends, please do not misunderstand, I am a strong supporter of pulling weeds from the root, but those who do so have a responsibility to distinguish between weeds and others who will grow to bear fruit.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Stop trying to blame others. Pakistan has taken a pound of flesh for everything it has done for others.........
Stop blaming others. Pakistan has recieved quid pro quo from every nation that it has helped.

Please read the last line of my post again, and tell me who am I blaming? I clearly indicate that the fault lies with us, not others.

That is a typical story Sir. We did all that for Afghans, look at what we got in return. We did so much for USA, look at how they treated us. We do so much for Saudi Arabia and see what we get in return. May be the fault lies within us and not outside?

 

[Jango]

I was seeing some videos of Pak Army ops in FATA in which tanks were used, and the Armored guys had the BP vest and a helmet on them while they were up through the hatch and they had it on when they closed the hatch.

My question is, does it not affect your maneuverability inside an already cramped space? And what is the real need of a BP vest inside a tank!!!

BTW, @Xeric, do artillery guys also wear BP vests while firing from a out of line of sight position?

Are there any SOP's regarding this or just the personal choice of the jawan/officer?

 

[Xeric]

I was seeing some videos of Pak Army ops in FATA in which tanks were used, and the Armored guys had the BP vest and a helmet on them while they were up through the hatch and they had it on when they closed the hatch.

My question is, does it not affect your maneuverability inside an already cramped space? And what is the real need of a BP vest inside a tank!!!

BTW, @Xeric, do artillery guys also wear BP vests while firing from a out of line of sight position?

Are there any SOP's regarding this or just the personal choice of the jawan/officer?

Nukie, sometimes your querries are funny.

Anywaz, there isnt any real need for a BP inside a tank, but then artillery and other arms have been performing infantry roles in those areas a times. Also, as there isnt any real demarcation among officers during sub-conventional environment like the one found in COIN, so roles keep on shifting and you never know when you are out of the tank and pulling out wounded men out of an ambush - that's what COIN/LIC is all about.

And seriously, what do you expect me to say regarding if arty guys wear BPs and whether is it a choice or order?

 

[Jango]

And seriously, what do you expect me to say regarding if arty guys wear BPs and whether is it a choice or order?

Just because it looks stupid wearing a BP when you are 50 km away from the target zone!!! I don't think people are that stupid, so unless there is an order, why would anyone do it?

BTW, another one I came across on YT

WTF< dominoes being played with artillery shells at 00:48!!!

At 8:57, Alpha-Mike-Foxtrot!!!

 

[Xeric]

Just because it looks stupid wearing a BP when you are 50 km away from the target zone!!! I don't think people are that stupid, so unless there is an order, why would anyone do it?

Well, that's what you dont understand, it's not a classical indo-Pak war, rather an LIC zone where there is no concept of borders, thus no '50 km away from target zone' as the enemy can pop up right behind your gun position from any direction at any time. So i wont mind wearing a BP vest even if i am sitting inside my HQ, coz i am not paid to die, but to kill.

BTW, another one I came across on YT

WTF< dominoes being played with artillery shells at 00:48!!!

At 8:57, Alpha-Mike-Foxtrot!!!

Cant see YT, it's blocked here.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well, that's what you dont understand, it's not a classical indo-Pak war, rather an LIC zone where there is no concept of borders, thus no '50 km away from target zone' as the enemy can pop up right behind your gun position from any direction at any time. So i wont mind wearing a BP vest even if i am sitting inside my HQ, coz i am not paid to die, but to kill.



Cant see YT, it's blocked here.

The shock waves... force shells to fall on eachother like dominos.. and use spotflux for "unblocking" youtube etc...

 

[Jango]

Well, that's what you dont understand, it's not a classical indo-Pak war, rather an LIC zone where there is no concept of borders, thus no '50 km away from target zone' as the enemy can pop up right behind your gun position from any direction at any time. So i wont mind wearing a BP vest even if i am sitting inside my HQ, coz i am not paid to die, but to kill.



Cant see YT, it's blocked here.

Well there isn't much in the video except:

1- Arty gun fires and the shells placed beside the gun fall like dominoes!

2- An example of what you said above, the convoy was going peacefully when suddenly RPGs come from nowhere and ambush. A firefight them breaks out and reporter get a RPG whizzing past his head, he received minor shrapnel injury. Then tanks come in and blow Taliban to kingdom come!

 

[Xeric]

The shock waves... force shells to fall on eachother like dominos.. and use spotflux for "unblocking" youtube etc...

Yeah, i can use any proxy service, but when it has been blocked by the govt, i dont feel like bypassing it. On a lighter note, at this age and service, i can live without YT

Well there isn't much in the video except:

1- Arty gun fires and the shells placed beside the gun fall like dominoes!

2- An example of what you said above, the convoy was going peacefully when suddenly RPGs come from nowhere and ambush. A firefight them breaks out and reporter get a RPG whizzing past his head, he received minor shrapnel injury. Then tanks come in and blow Taliban to kingdom come!

Yep, already seen that. Well the gunner boys were lucky there was no sympathetic detonation on this, but when a 130 thunders, things do shake.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yeah, i can use any proxy service, but when it has been blocked by the govt, i dont feel like bypassing it. On a lighter note, at this age and service, i can live without YT

Dont tell me ur over 30 bruh! ... plus its a good source for entertainment n info..