Pakistan Army | News and Discussions

[Armstrong]

You make several good points, but it is not as simple as us choosing what we want to do there. There is a bidding process of civil projects controlled by the Afghan authorities, and NLC bids on those projects that are available. Once selected, things move ahead.

Any joint ventures will need to be raised at a government level, approved and then we can proceed. That is not a simple task.

Not it is not ! And I would expect us to have a well thought out 5-10 year plan on helping Afghanistan in a way that helps Pakistan as well, instead of just throwing in money out of the goodness of our hearts.

We must plan to build our relations up by weighing each Investment Option that comes through a proper appraisal that takes into account everything from 'its costs' to 'its PR benefits' as well from 'its sustainability' to its 'integration potential' !

But then again were we half as smart as that, Pakistan itself wouldn't be in the mess that she is !

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Not it is not ! And I would expect us to have a well thought out 5-10 year plan on helping Afghanistan in a way that helps Pakistan as well, instead of just throwing in money out of the goodness of our hearts.

We must plan to build our relations up by weighing each Investment Option that comes through a proper appraisal that takes into account everything from 'its costs' to 'its PR benefits' as well from 'its sustainability' to its 'integration potential' !

But then again were we half as smart as that, Pakistan itself wouldn't be in the mess that she is !

Are you saying that Pakistan is a mess because we are stupid? Astaghfirullah!

 

[Sugarcane]

@Xeric : I can post a link to a book written by Pakistan's Ambassador to Afghanistan (It can be read online) which documents the millions of $$$s we've spent in helping Afghanistan through various projects ! In fact here is it : Journey of Friendship - Pakistan's Assistance to Afghanistan

And now we've spent another $18mil on an Engineering block. In my conversations with Afghans both in the flesh & Afghans on the Internet - the hate for Pakistan & Pakistanis I've seen & the many statements that come from Afghanistan, I can't help but wonder whether all of it to the last dime was a waste....an absolute, incontrovertible waste.

I'd like your thoughts - @fatman17 @nuclearpak @muse @Abu Zolfiqar @chauvunist @Hyperion @Last Hope @Spring Onion @TaimiKhan @LoveIcon @Secur @haviZsultan @Areesh !

I agree with you, It's 101% waste of money - We should invest in our own tribal areas.

 

[Armstrong]

I agree with you, It's 101% waste of money - We should invest in our own tribal areas.

Sir mein tou tiyaaar hunnn woh apna @SHAMK9 nahin mantaaa....pataaa nahin kaun siii Afghani ko Maria..Maria neend mein bhii pukartaa rehtaa haiii !

Ubbb Bhai kei True Love siii burrr kar tou kuch nahin naa...tu mein bhiii chup kar jataa hunn !

 

[Sugarcane]

Sir mein tou tiyaaar hunnn woh apna @SHAMK9 nahin mantaaa....pataaa nahin kaun siii Afghani ko Maria..Maria neend mein bhii pukartaa rehtaa haiii !

Ubbb Bhai kei True Love siii burrr kar tou kuch nahin naa...tu mein bhiii chup kar jataa hunn !

Aisi baat hai tu 100-200 million aur invest kar do

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not it is not ! And I would expect us to have a well thought out 5-10 year plan on helping Afghanistan in a way that helps Pakistan as well, instead of just throwing in money out of the goodness of our hearts.

We must plan to build our relations up by weighing each Investment Option that comes through a proper appraisal that takes into account everything from 'its costs' to 'its PR benefits' as well from 'its sustainability' to its 'integration potential' !

But then again were we half as smart as that, Pakistan itself wouldn't be in the mess that she is !

I suppose main objective was capacity building (eg higher education) plus healthcare

 

[Xeric]

@Xeric : I can post a link to a book written by Pakistan's Ambassador to Afghanistan (It can be read online) which documents the millions of $$$s we've spent in helping Afghanistan through various projects ! In fact here is it : Journey of Friendship - Pakistan's Assistance to Afghanistan

And now we've spent another $18mil on an Engineering block. In my conversations with Afghans both in the flesh & Afghans on the Internet - the hate for Pakistan & Pakistanis I've seen & the many statements that come from Afghanistan, I can't help but wonder whether all of it to the last dime was a waste....an absolute, incontrovertible waste.

I'd like your thoughts - @fatman17 @nuclearpak @muse @Abu Zolfiqar @chauvunist @Hyperion @Last Hope @Spring Onion @TaimiKhan @LoveIcon @Secur @haviZsultan @Areesh !

You are right. i have had a similar experience with them. The solution, in my opinion is: stop helping the common Afghan and start investing in their leadership and media, baki saray appay he theek hojayegy.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

You are right. i have had a similar experience with them. The solution, in my opinion is: stop helping the common Afghan and start investing in their leadership and media, baki saray appay he theek hojayegy.

Sir, when USA does the same thing to us (ignoring the common Pakistani, and investing in our leadership and media), we find it highly objectionable. Isn't there a risk that the Afghan will hate us for doing that just like we hate the Americans for doing the same to us?

 

[Xeric]

Sir, when USA does the same thing to us (ignoring the common Pakistani, and investing in our leadership and media), we find it highly objectionable. Isn't there a risk that the Afghan will hate us for doing that just like we hate the Americans for doing the same to us?

That's a long way to go.

Dont we all agree that this 'he;ping the common man' crap isnt earning us much respect? If yes, then i think it's time to bend the fingers to get the ghee

 

[Armstrong]

I suppose main objective was capacity building (eg higher education) plus healthcare

You are right. i have had a similar experience with them. The solution, in my opinion is: stop helping the common Afghan and start investing in their leadership and media, baki saray appay he theek hojayegy.

Sir, when USA does the same thing to us (ignoring the common Pakistani, and investing in our leadership and media), we find it highly objectionable. Isn't there a risk that the Afghan will hate us for doing that just like we hate the Americans for doing the same to us?

That is a conundrum that we find ourselves in & one that I'd give anything to get out of ! On one hand my tax payer's money that could be put to much better use were it used for targeted value-added development work in Baluchistan & FATA on a preferential basis is being used to build schools, colleges, universities & hospitals for a country & a people many of whom hate us to the core, dream of carving out their own Loy Afghanistan from nearly 2/3rd of our territory & spit on our two largest ethnic groups for being Pro-Pakistan one & for severing from them their long lost brothers for the other ! On the other hand if we don't fill the vacuum or at least try to reach out to them & make an attempt to earn some goodwill through various projects to make life better for them...they'd fall squarely into the Indian & other Anti-Pakistan camp which means we'd see more of proxies being used against us (like the '90s), more of disgruntled Baloch Separatists finding rest & respite in Afghanistan which has happened since the beginning & more of the 'Mera bichara Pashtun Bhai on the other side being squished like a slave by the big bad Punjabi-Mohajir Army Establishment of Pakistan' !

Its a very sh*tty situation to be in & I don't know how to get out of it.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

That's a long way to go.

Dont we all agree that this 'he;ping the common man' crap isnt earning us much respect? If yes, then i think it's time to bend the fingers to get the ghee

Agreed Sir, that the existing approach is not working for us. Now I just hope that we have the power to bend the fingers to get the ghee where so many others have failed. Good Luck to us all!

........

Its a very sh*tty situation to be in & I don't know how to get out of it.

Sir @Xeric seems to suggest a good solution above.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You are right. i have had a similar experience with them. The solution, in my opinion is: stop helping the common Afghan and start investing in their leadership and media, baki saray appay he theek hojayegy.

I respectfully disagree, sir (welcome back and good to see you)

We've done capacity building we've worked on civilian level.. we even trained their bloody national airline and gave them landing rights before any other country did; we trained their civil aviation authorties

Built health clinics, and despite all the irritating statements by emotionally unstable karzai (puppet of Kabul) we stood by more as sympathetic spectators trying to help them

After last week incident I say not another damn dime should be wasted on that forsaken country. Not one thin dime. We have our own mouthes to feed and our own to tend to. Mine the border and to hell with them. When they respect the sanctity of (internationally recognized) borders and they stop sending more rats for us to kill there wuud be grounds for more "beneficial" contact. Until then in this idea i say dafa karo.

We do have some established relationships that are cordial that go unreported by media (of course). This we should maintain but no need to reach out further in this current environment

That's a long way to go.

Dont we all agree that this 'he;ping the common man' crap isnt earning us much respect? If yes, then i think it's time to bend the fingers to get the ghee

There is no ghee just leftover malai

 

[Armstrong]

After last week incident I say not another damn dime should be wasted on that forsaken country. Not one thin dime. We have our own mouthes to feed and our own to tend to. Mine the border and to hell with them. When they respect the sanctity of (internationally recognized) borders and they stop sending more rats for us to kill there wuud be grounds for more "beneficial" contact. Until then in this idea i say dafa karo.

Yaraa believe me I want to stop the aid as well but then I keep on thinking ke aaam Afghan mard, bachaa, boorha aur aurat hiii tou suffer karein geiii end meinnn & that stops me everytime from taking a tougher stance on the issue ! I met a few of these Afghan kids in Lahore.....innocent & happy - I'm sure there are millions of such across the border....I dunno if cutting off all aid would be the ethical thing to do.

On the border thing - Would the tribes permit us to mine the border ? What if we end up alienating our own people through such an action ?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

........

After last week incident I say not another damn dime should be wasted on that forsaken country. Not one thin dime. We have our own mouthes to feed and our own to tend to. Mine the border and to hell with them. When they respect the sanctity of (internationally recognized) borders and they stop sending more rats for us to kill there wuud be grounds for more "beneficial" contact. Until then in this idea i say dafa karo...............

The Durand line is 2,640 kilometers long Sir. How long would it take to mine the border and at what cost?

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On the border thing - Would the tribes permit us to mine the border ? What if we end up alienating our own people through such an action ?

great points, not to mention the time and cost involved.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Use regression analysis to determine where cross border incursions have been most burdensome (e.g.) near Bajaur, Khyber, Kurram to be more precise

Of course this is a controversial view and even I've made people angry by suggesting it. It's my own view. And coming from someone whose village is surrounded by Afghanistan on 3 sides and who has fought people who cross over and shoot at us - I think my opinion should at least matter somewhat