Pakistan Army Chief visits Saudi Arabia

[HAIDER]

Its trip of another frustrated army chief. Few years ago Kiyani visit Emrites and Suadis and gave soft warning about stop backing and funding the TTP.
But according to media report Gen Raheel is way more hot head then Kiyani, Unlike Kiyani he gave free hand to Pak armed force to confront terrorist. A new Terminology emerged " Raheel Doctrine ", means answer the bullet with bullet. People have noticed recent changes in armed force mood, when PAF did number of surgical strike and TTP has no choice now to talk to govt.

 

[Solomon2]

Yes they should... but for that they should conduct state's full business. That unfortunately does not happen here.

Bah, all constituents complain about elected leaders, even the ones they themselves vote for. Criticism doesn't lessen the responsibilities the elect have one iota.

There is one thing to be said for Pakmil's independence: it makes it difficult for an elected civilian leader to wield power over it and establish his own dictatorship. Yet Z.A.B. showed how this could be done: he recognized the Army's oath could become its weakness, manipulated the break-up of the country, and soon had the Army at his mercy, dependent on him to negotiate the release of 90,000 soldiers and simultaneously control the hate-filled populace that would no longer heed the orders of a disgraced military leadership. Current civilian leaders may not be as crafty and intelligent as Z.A.B., but of course that does nothing to prevent the military from elevating one of its own to dictatorship, as Pakistan's sad history shows.

There are mechanisms to prevent a commander-in-chief from becoming dictator-for-life. The C-i-C should have the power to remove anybody from any command. Appointment of top military leadership can be by C-i-C nomination but must be confirmed by parliament. Generals can dismiss officers from command, but not appoint new commanders without civilian review - a system that can go down to the regimental level, etc.

The military brass might dismiss such a system as beyond the competence of civilians. And so it may be at the moment. But civilian leaders can create their own system of ex-military advisers to help sort through this. When B.B. was first elected as pm the first thing she did - after noticing how her predecessor cleaned out all the files - was to send teams to Britain to learn the mechanisms of democratic governance.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Bah, all constituents complain about elected leaders, even the ones they themselves vote for. Criticism doesn't lessen the responsibilities the elect have one iota.

There is one thing to be said for Pakmil's independence: it makes it difficult for an elected civilian leader to wield power over it and establish his own dictatorship. Yet Z.A.B. showed how this could be done: he recognized the Army's oath could become its weakness, manipulated the break-up of the country, and soon had the Army at his mercy, dependent on him to negotiate the release of 90,000 soldiers and simultaneously control the hate-filled populace that would no longer heed the orders of a disgraced military leadership. Current civilian leaders may not be as crafty and intelligent as Z.A.B., but of course that does nothing to prevent the military from elevating one of its own to dictatorship, as Pakistan's sad history shows.

There are mechanisms to prevent a commander-in-chief from becoming dictator-for-life. The C-i-C should have the power to remove anybody from any command. Appointment of top military leadership can be by C-i-C nomination but must be confirmed by parliament. Generals can dismiss officers from command, but not appoint new commanders without civilian review - a system that can go down to the regimental level, etc.

The military brass might dismiss such a system as beyond the competence of civilians. And so it may be at the moment. But civilian leaders can create their own system of ex-military advisers to help sort through this. When B.B. was first elected as pm the first thing she did - after noticing how her predecessor cleaned out all the files - was to send teams to Britain to learn the mechanisms of democratic governance.

Mate, what you are talking about is an ''ideal democracy'', unfortunately that does not exist in Pakistan or any other place for that matter, even ''democratic'' countries' principles are clouded by political aims etc

 

[Solomon2]

Mate, what you are talking about is an ''ideal democracy'', unfortunately that does not exist in Pakistan or any other place for that matter, even ''democratic'' countries' principles are clouded by political aims etc

Is that an excuse to avoid working to improve matters?

 

[Khan_patriot]

Is that an excuse to avoid working to improve matters?

No, it is not, its just absolute realism, democracy although noble in its ideals is not suitable to govern most countries, because it is severely abused by leaders everywhere....now dont get me wrong I am not a commie or anything, but I think democracy must be modified in certain ways to make it more suitable, especially to third world developing countries.....

 

[Jaanbaz]

Something isn't right here, the civilians should be able to control military commanders' movements in this regard.

Blasphemer! The military is high and mighty and is not answerable to any civilian governments.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Doesn't the COAS have to get permission from the civilian leadership before he leaves the country?

as per your usual tricks you again at your best. he did take permission and even had a meeting with the pm yesterday and discussed with other things his upcoming trip. no coas has ever left the country without permission and notification.

so kindly don't start what you always do.

 

[Solomon2]

as per your usual tricks you again at your best. he did take permission and even had a meeting with the pm yesterday and discussed with other things his upcoming trip. no coast has ever left the country with permission and notification.

Thank you for the correction.

 

[zeeshanvita]

Doesn't the COAS have to get permission from the civilian leadership before he leaves the country?

he do not need to tell you if he has taken permission or not.

 

[FaujHistorian]

That, or he is going to tell the Saudis that negotiations with the TTP will not be tolerated by the Army and that the Saudis need to put pressure on their assets here to back off when the time comes for an operation.

Well said.

And perhaps more importantly sharing plans about the region. One of them is to control Islamist terrorists.

So far the countries impacted by these terrorists are fighting individual war against these slippery and slimy rats.

There should be a joint strategy among countries and soon!

 

[Donatello]

Well said.

And perhaps more importantly sharing plans about the region. One of them is to control Islamist terrorists.

So far the countries impacted by these terrorists are fighting individual war against these slippery and slimy rats.

There should be a joint strategy among countries and soon!

What countries?

Only Pakistan has to deal with these scums.

 

[FaujHistorian]

What countries?

Only Pakistan has to deal with these scums.

noops.

Yemen, libya, Iraq, Egypt, and off course Saudi Arabia

They are all being attacked from witin by the same ideology or shall we say idiot-ology

 

[Zarvan]

That, or he is going to tell the Saudis that negotiations with the TTP will not be tolerated by the Army and that the Saudis need to put pressure on their assets here to back off when the time comes for an operation.

and do you think if Saudis are behind this they will tolerate this shit they will just cut your oil for one week and you will beg TTP than Saudis are not behind it its your local support and the reason why you started this war until you get rid of USA and stop being partner of NATP TTP would be their weather you like it or not

 

[Luftwaffe]

That seems ironic, since Pakistan was more than happy to train and arm these beasts, with funding from Saudis.

The problem is, Saudis are not directly affected by TTP or whatever name we put on them. We are the ones stuck with them on our lands.

I won't even blame Saudis. By 91 we should have dumped these jihadists, we did not and over the top neglected that western border due to that their sanctuaries increased and they got stronger over the years. TTP is same as AlQ.

 

[Areesh]

and do you think if Saudis are behind this they will tolerate this shit they will just cut your oil for one week and you will beg TTP than Saudis are not behind it its your local support and the reason why you started this war until you get rid of USA and stop being partner of NATP TTP would be their weather you like it or not

Aa gaya tape recorder....