Pakistan Affairs post about SHAHEEN 3 Range

[Safriz]

That is a very oversimplified argument, and almost on the line of idiocy. Here's why:

The white smoke trail can be of the same liquid engine. What happens is that in upper atmosphere, the exhaust gases have a higher density than the surrounding air, hence the trail begins to appear whitish. This happens with our Ghauris too so it isn't anything different. To support my argument, you have to look at the rough sketch of HS-14's internal design:

(Courtesy: Norbert Breugge http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/Specials/Hwasong-14/index.htm)

This is a MASSIVE first stage. It likely burns for at least two minutes (a more realistic estimate is about 150s), before burnout.

Please try to consider other technical factors before comparing apples and pine-freakin-apples.

If you look closely, the object producing the white smoke is coming down not going up, so it cant be an active rocket stage, but a discarded one.
About burnout time Dnerp rocket a derivative of SS-18 has 120 seconds burnout time for first stage when on full load. Obviously liquid fuel rockets can be throttled unlike solid fuel ones and burnout time is not a constant thing and may vary as per launch profile. Since this Hwasong-14 was launched on Lofted trajectory, chances are that the Rocket motor was on full throttle to provide maximum lift and maximum altitude hence a relatively shorter burnout time.

 

[Mrc]

Lying about ranges is common practice.... shaheen 1 was officially given 450km range at first test... now it stands double that.... shaheen 2 used to be 2500km range.... stated several times but now range is gone down to 1500 can they needed to fit shaheen 3 in....

One can understand the confidentiality since original missiles are not even displayed in parades.... only mock ups .... as its known that approx weight can be calculated by tire deformity of carrying vehicles.....u won't be surprised if in near future stated range of shaheen 3 also fluctuate upwards.... it's pretty much usual practice

Lying about ranges is common practice.... shaheen 1 was officially given 450km range at first test... now it stands double that.... shaheen 2 used to be 2500km range.... stated several times but now range is gone down to 1500 can they needed to fit shaheen 3 in....

One can understand the confidentiality since original missiles are not even displayed in parades.... only mock ups .... as its known that approx weight can be calculated by tire deformity of carrying vehicles.....u won't be surprised if in near future stated range of shaheen 3 also fluctuate upwards.... it's pretty much usual practice

 

[The Accountant]

Do you mean we've no options?

Yes, as organizations, dept process everything is based on people so whatever the quality of people output will be the same ... accordingly we have to make the base right and if we have right people for the right job we will not be in mess as they will take care of all these things on their own ...

 

[SQ8]

Somehow a post on Pakistan Affairs makes it all authentic.

 

[maximuswarrior]

https://www.facebook.com/

This is the video of North Korea's Hwasong-14 ICBM.
Note the first stage burning up in atmosphere as seen at 1 minute 6 seconds in the video, the white smoke trail.
Obviously the stage must have separated before 66 seconds . The moment when a rocket stage burns all fuel and gets separated is called "Burnout time".
On the other hand Pakistan's Shaheen-3 first stage burns for at least 57 seconds , may be 60 seconds.
Yet North Korean Missile is said to have a range of 7000+ Kilometers, but Pakistani missile as a range of just 2750 Kilometers?
Its another thing that North Korean missile is liquid fueled and has slower acceleration, Pakisani Shaheen-3 is solid fueled and accelerates much faster and has a higher speed than Hwasong-14 at first stage Burnout.
Other thing is Pakistani Shaheen-3 has a larger second stage and also carries a third stage.
North Korean Missile has only a second stage and no third stage.
Pakistani Missile's Warhead is much lighter than the one carried by North Korean missile, so they need much more energy to carry their warhead to target, ours need lesser energy.
For same amount of acceleration ours will go further.
But lets all say that Pakistani Shaheen-3 has a range of 2750 Kilometers and not a meter more


This is what it says please your opinion is needed @The Deterrent @Horus

We have always maintained that our entire arsenal is India centric. The truth is that it is not. The threats are ever evolving. We are not going to advertise every detail. Especially not the range of our longer range missiles. The details that we have chosen to make public is only to remain transparent in areas we deem appropriate. Apart from that, Pakistan is making huge strides and we are now working on the completion of the triad capability.

 

[The Deterrent]

If you look closely, the object producing the white smoke is coming down not going up, so it cant be an active rocket stage, but a discarded one.
About burnout time Dnerp rocket a derivative of SS-18 has 120 seconds burnout time for first stage when on full load. Obviously liquid fuel rockets can be throttled unlike solid fuel ones and burnout time is not a constant thing and may vary as per launch profile. Since this Hwasong-14 was launched on Lofted trajectory, chances are that the Rocket motor was on full throttle to provide maximum lift and maximum altitude hence a relatively shorter burnout time.

Bhai jaan, kuch Khuda ka khof karo. Kyun physics ka satyanaas karna chahtay ho? Khuda k liye dimaagh ki khirkiyaan kholo aur chezzon ko uchalnay se pehlay study karo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ch/?tid=graphics-story&utm_term=.c6cd69d520d1

At least take a look at the apogees.

Lying about ranges is common practice.... shaheen 1 was officially given 450km range at first test... now it stands double that.... shaheen 2 used to be 2500km range.... stated several times but now range is gone down to 1500 can they needed to fit shaheen 3 in....

One can understand the confidentiality since original missiles are not even displayed in parades.... only mock ups .... as its known that approx weight can be calculated by tire deformity of carrying vehicles.....u won't be surprised if in near future stated range of shaheen 3 also fluctuate upwards.... it's pretty much usual practice

"Dil ke behlanay ko Ghaalib, ye khayaal acha hai"

Pakistan has (almost) never understated the range of a given system. Historically, we have always exaggerated ranges, worst case being Shaheen-2. Only now Pakistan has started to declare exact and true ranges of the weapon systems.

 

[Mrc]

At least take a look at the apogees

Apogee?? Don't look at lofted ones than look at normal ones... Apogee of shaheen 3 from nav warning is 600km ...which would put range at around 5000km .... according to above figure

Pakistan has (almost) never understated the range of a given system. Historically, we have always exaggerated ranges, worst case being Shaheen-2. Only now Pakistan has started to declare exact and true ranges of the weapon systems.

And u know that for a fact how????... don't make statements without logical arguement

Also remember few months back u were arguing with me that missiles cannot be lofted to extremes... caz according to u RV will burn out...on reentry than

Look at your own fig u posted... NK has lofted each test to nearly 90 degree

 

[The Deterrent]

Apogee?? Don't look at lofted ones than look at normal ones... Apogee of shaheen 3 from nav warning is 600km ...which would put range at around 5000km .... according to above figure

The projections are for HS-14 only, modeled after its specific characteristics.

And u know that for a fact how????... don't make statements without logical arguement

Voices in my head. I try to ignore them usually but they speak the truth.

Also remember few months back u were arguing with me that missiles cannot be lofted to extremes... can according to u RV will burn out...

Look at your own fig u posted... NK has lofted each test to nearly 90 degree

You probably haven't read South Korean and Japanese military assessments where they reported that everything burned upon reentry. From the link I provided above:

And no one outside North Korea knows whether Kim has a viable reentry vehicle that could deliver a warhead to a target. Dill said grainy video of the July 28 test may show the missile burning up on reentry into the atmosphere, although she said that could have been because it went so much higher than a normal trajectory in the first place.

 

[Mrc]

The projections are for HS-14 only, modeled after its specific characteristics.

Looks like a very normal parabolic curve to me

Voices in my head. I try to ignore them usually but they speak th

It seems like we both have a dark passenger with us

 

[Yerusalem 4880 Kms]

Pakistan never declare correct ranges of missiles and always keep changing the statements for obvious reason like ABM, If they declare true ranges it may help India to deploy or develop / purchase appropriate systems.

Baaz aoqaat la-ilmi bais-e-rehmat hoti hai.
@Zarvan

 

[The Deterrent]

Looks like a very normal parabolic curve to me

At this scale it appears very approximated.

It seems like we both have a dark passenger with us

I highly doubt that.

 

[Yerusalem 4880 Kms]

How many types of missiles operational with P.A?
@The Deterrent

 

[The Deterrent]

How many types of missiles operational with P.A?
@The Deterrent

6: Ghaznavi, Shaheen-I, Ghauri, Shaheen-II, Babur-I, Nasr

 

[Yerusalem 4880 Kms]

6: Ghaznavi, Shaheen-I, Ghauri, Shaheen-II, Babur-I, Nasr

What about Ra'ad?

 

[The Deterrent]

What about Ra'ad?

You asked about P.A (Pakistan Army). Ra'ad-I is operational with PAF.