Pak willing to give up claim on Kashmir: Musharraf

[Awesome]

Jana,

Self Governance is a fancy name for autonomy, which the state of J&K already enjoys under the Indian constitution.

The only thing new the 4 point plan brings to the table is:
- Allowing free movement of people of both sides

If Kashmir should have free movement of people, why not both the Punjab's have the same? Why not Bengal? Why not let people travel free all through out the I.B.

Allowing free movement of people in Kashmir sets a precedent which highlights the cultural un-viability of partition.

However partition is a reality and both sides (including Musharraf) must respect it. Free movement of people in Kashmir is a set back from partition.

Because Kashmir is disputed territory. The fate of Punjab has been sealed.

 

[Awesome]

Stop arming and training separatists(give them moral support if you wish) and then we'll see what sort of freedom struggle endures.

Yes it is Pakistani weapons that make Kashmiris hoist Pakistani flags and use the Pak national anthem tune in their cell phones.

No freedom movement can be sustained without local participation.

 

[Awesome]

1. Autonomy
#1 #2 & #3 already enjoy autonomy and have popular elected Govt.'s. However the autonomy in #4, #5, #6, #7 & #8 is yet to be achieved. However it doesn't concern India because, we aren't in control of those regions.

There should be a separation of the local elections with the Indian election commission. Only a local setup should administer the elections.

2. Demilitarization
Terrorism has to end for the Indian Security Forces to leave. Once terrorism ends, the Forces will have to automatically vacate. However, in the absence of which, a withdrawal would be unforeseeable.

Militancy and Military need to leave together. You can't expect militants to give themselves up and Indian Army would turn around and go "haha fooled ya!" It has to be a mutual withdrawal.

After all if its militancy thats the problem for you guys then you should have no problem with this.

Now, Musharraf is promising a similar 'demilitarization' in 'Azad' Kashmir. However he doesn't make any commitments about the Northern Areas. Why?

Northern Areas is not militarized.

Also, will (and can) Musharraf guarantee Chinese demilitarization of Aksai Chin?

No. You can continue debate with them on a later date, you deal with us first.

3. Joint Control Mechanism
Indians, Pakistanis and Kashmiri's, Musharraf proposes, to jointly rule in Kashmir. Now observe the flawed reasoning of your self imposed President:
Musharraf denies Kashmiri independence. Simply means there is no Kashmiri citizen, as it is not a country. You are an Indian or Pakistani citizen of Kashmiri origin.

We would probably have to get them different passports and a different nationality.

Joint rule's a transit step towards Independence.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

To those millions of Mush supporters:

Guys you have been blaming NS ever since he went to US to bail out Pakistan army that it was cause of him we lost Kargil. Can you see who is losing Kashmir now?

Secondly i mentioned somewhere on this forum that Mush and Kasuri want Noble Peace prize. I was telling the truth

 

[Awesome]

To those millions of Mush supporters:

Guys you have been blaming NS ever since he went to US to bail out Pakistan army that it was cause of him we lost Kargil. Can you see who is losing Kashmir now?

Secondly i mentioned somewhere on this forum that Mush and Kasuri want Noble Peace prize. I was telling the truth

Lol write one more post off to the just simply "Blame Mush"... Phenomenon.

 

[blain2]

To those millions of Mush supporters:

Guys you have been blaming NS ever since he went to US to bail out Pakistan army that it was cause of him we lost Kargil. Can you see who is losing Kashmir now?

Secondly i mentioned somewhere on this forum that Mush and Kasuri want Noble Peace prize. I was telling the truth

Nobody is losing Kashmir. Kashmir was not getting resolved due to Kargil either.

There is a big, fat caveat to this offer...which is, India has to reciprocate.

 

[Srirangan]

Because Kashmir is disputed territory. The fate of Punjab has been sealed.

Why do you think you get to decide which regions to start a dispute about. I was commenting about the larger precedent being set. What happens in Kashmir happens all through out the Subcontinent. That is a fact. Without Kashmir, neither India nor Pakistan will remain viable. That's all the fighting is about.

There should be a separation of the local elections with the Indian election commission. Only a local setup should administer the elections.

Why? Because you say so? Let us have the Pakistan Army run elections instead?

Militancy and Military need to leave together. You can't expect militants to give themselves up and Indian Army would turn around and go "haha fooled ya!" It has to be a mutual withdrawal.

Terrorists aren't equivalent of the Security Forces. Terrorism came first, it will be the first to go. You seem to be under the impression that this is negotiable.

Northern Areas is not militarized.

Let us have an independent council comprising of "Indians, Pakistanis and Kashmiris" confirm that ..

No. You can continue debate with them on a later date, you deal with us first.

Again, why? Because you say so?

Joint rule's a transit step towards Independence.

Actually no. Not according to your President. He says independence is to be abandoned and the autonomy/self rule formula is the next best thing.

Secondly i mentioned somewhere on this forum that Mush and Kasuri want Noble Peace prize. I was telling the truth

There were rumours in 2004 that Vajpayee-Musharraf were to be nominated for a Joint Nobel Peace Prize. Atal Ji instead got booted out of power.

 

[TomCat111]

Terrorists aren't equivalent of the Security Forces. Terrorism came first, it will be the first to go. You seem to be under the impression that this is negotiable.

Ever read the definitions of terrorists or terrorism? You may want to expand your knowledge a bit before passing such stupendous judgments.

You got it right that “Terrorism came first, it will be the first to go”. Hence IA will have to go first, because it’s a dirty tool of state terrorism.

 

[Srirangan]

Ever read the definitions of terrorists or terrorism? You may want to expand your knowledge a bit before passing such stupendous judgments.

Nope sorry. Haven't read. Not a madrassa graduate you see!

You got it right that “Terrorism came first, it will be the first to go”. Hence IA will have to go first, because it’s a dirty tool of state terrorism.

Thanks. Next time I'll bother replying when you bring something mature to the discussion/debate.

 

[TomCat111]

Nope sorry. Haven't read. Not a madrassa graduate you see!

What else can we expect from a Mundir graduate?

Thanks. Next time I'll bother replying when you bring something mature to the discussion/debate.

Yeah, that's a mature response. :idiot:

 

[Srirangan]

What else can we expect from a Mundir graduate?




Yeah, that's a mature response. :idiot:

Why? You seem to like to dish 'em out but you can't take them yourself.. eh?

 

[TomCat111]

Why? You seem to like to dish 'em out but you can't take them yourself.. eh?

Do you see me complaining?


I merely responded to your cheap madrassa comment in kind, so don't whine. :army:

 

[Srirangan]

The cheap comment was in response to another cheap comment. And you are the one who's whining.. I'll let it go ..

 

[Lahori paa jee]

Lol write one more post off to the just simply "Blame Mush"... Phenomenon.

You know very well Asim how much i hate Mush and i cannot resist any chance i get.

But seriously apart from all this you have to agree that if any civilian PM had come up with such a proposal he would have been termed a traitor, a security risk and what not. This is something anyone of Mush's predecessors could have done too but they never dared cause of PA

 

[TomCat111]

The cheap comment was in response to another cheap comment. And you are the one who's whining.. I'll let it go ..

In short, you had not even half-intelligent rebuttal to India being a terrorist state, you got frustrated and fell back to your favorite religious/racial epithet, the 'madrassa'. How unfortunate!