Pak FM to visit Dhaka this year

[Armstrong]

^^US has a black president, that does not mean racism does not exist in the USA. The fact of the matter was we were highly under represented in the military and the government. The budget was not fairly distributed and all the bigger institutions were in west Pakistan. Fact of the matter is these discriminations is what lead to the Bangladeshi nationalism.

Bringing a Bangali for the language movement is comical at its best. It was all started by your beloved Jinnah who came to East Pakistan and said "east pakistan's language should be Urdu", that short sited man, he is the one who planted the seeds of Bangladeshi nationalism. Man was the biggest short sited man in the history of subcontinent and royally screwed the muslims....gandhi offered him the prime minister and a cabinet of his choice, which he declined. If that man took the offer, today the Muslims would be controlling the subcontinent with a 40% population.

That short-sighted man choose to decline because it wouldn't work; Because had there not been profound fault lines between Muslims and Non-Muslims millions would not have butchered each other in '47 and millions would not have immigrated to their countries of choice either ! The fact that they did and many died is testament to how communally charged the environment had become ! As an ethnic Kashmiri who has relatives on the other-side of the LOC I do have more than just a passing acquaintance with what happened to the 'Sole Muslim Majority' State in the Union of India...have you ? And even if one were to consider that it was a blunder to part company with India; you got your Independence in '71 why didn't you merge back in ? Surely your West Bengali Brethren would have accepted you with open arms and the Indian citizens at large would have been overjoyed to see a once parting brother return...so why didn't you ?

As for the under-representation and exploitation ! Yes...you were under-represented I believe the reasons for that were less malicious intent on our part and more an absence of any influx into Bengal ! One of the reasons why we parted company with India was because the Hindus had been smart enough to take up on the British offer and progress almost in every field whereas the Muslims by contrast, despite the lamentations of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, had failed to do so and it regressed even further after Urdu was replaced by English as the Official Language. Consequently when the Partition happened most of the businesses, the bureaucracy and academia was in the hands of the Hindus and when many of them left so was a vacuum created in our country; in West-Pakistan that vacuum was filled with the influx of the educated Mohajir Community who not only provided invaluable presence to fill that vacuum but reinvigorated the economy. Unfortunately East-Pakistan wasn't home to nearly enough Mohajir as we were hence the lack of representation over the years ! By some estimates the Mohajir comprised as much as 83% of all entrepreneurs in West Pakistan ! In an attempt to address this disparity Ayub Khan under his 5 year plan first introduced the quota system where 40% of all seats would be reserved for Bengalis in East Pakistan whereas 20% would be on merit and later in '67 this was revised to 60% reservation by also adding the 20% merit based seats to it as well ! Unfortunately it ran into a lot of trouble and didn't work as well as it should have but it managed to increase the representation of ethnic Bengalis in the army exponentially ! Bengalis who hadn't played a role in the British Indian Army since the 1857 revolt where the Bengal Regiment revolted the British started recruiting heavily the Punjabis and the Pukhtoons from amongst the Muslims ! So naturally it took time for the Bengalis to have any significant presence in the Armed Forces; according to the book Pakistan: failure of national integration by Rounaq Jahan as a result of these policies the once virtually none representation in the Army grew to 5% in case of Commission Officers, 8% for NCOs and 8& for JCOs ! In the Airforce it was much better at 17% for the COs, 14% for the Warrant Officers and 29% for Other Ranks whilst in the Navy it followed a nearly similar pattern as in the Airforce but with a little higher representation for Seamen at 30% but a much lower 5% at the Branch Officer level ! Certainly nothing to boast about but when nearly your entire army consisted of Pukhtoons and Punjabis Muslims who had decided to join the Pakistan Army once they were discharged from the British Indian Army it was bound to take time. The statistics for the Civil Servants are even worse for the reasons I mentioned before and all of the major industries were in West-Pakistan whereas East-Pakistan had to sent its jute to West-Pakistan's mills to be processed because every mill was in West-Bengal ! But even if one were to assume that West-Pakistani's were racists then tell me were the 4 PMs including Suhrawardy simply 'Poster Boys' ? Why didn't they address these issues when they were Bengalis and were elected from Bengal ? In the 7 years that they ruled out of an 11 year democratic rule....why didn't they do anything about any of this ? Could it be that they were working towards that just as all of them were but the combination of most Businessmen migrating to India, next to no natural resources in East-Pakistan, not a single industrial unit or a mill in East-Pakistan and no educated class immigrating to East-Pakistan to fill the vacuum created huge problems ?

As for the Urdu Language - He did that because it was our lingua-franca; it wasn't a language that the majority in West-Pakistan spoke - We spoke Punjabi and yet we accepted it ! So did the Baloch, the Sindhis, the Pukhtoons, the Kashmiris, the Hindkoans, the Baltis and numerous other ethnicities all over Pakistan....why did the Bengalis object when we didn't ? Why didn't you guys see the wisdom of the decision ? The Urdu language was not associated per se with any community but was spoken and understood by almost every community and consequently many, over the years, adopted it as their mother-tongue and came to be known as the Biharis, the Bijnauris or as we call them - the Urdu Speakers ! It was our Lingua-Franca - Our Common Tongue ! What else was supposed to be our 'National Language' - English...? And I quoted the Bengali because it was he who initiated the crack-down so its comical indeed !

 

[scholseys]

That short-sighted man choose to decline because it wouldn't work; Because had there not been profound fault lines between Muslims and Non-Muslims millions would not have butchered each other in '47 and millions would not have immigrated to their countries of choice either ! The fact that they did and many died is testament to how communally charged the environment had become ! As an ethnic Kashmiri who has relatives on the other-side of the LOC I do have more than just a passing acquaintance with what happened to the 'Sole Muslim Majority' State in the Union of India...have you ? And even if one were to consider that it was a blunder to part company with India; you got your Independence in '71 why didn't you merge back in ? Surely your West Bengali Brethren would have accepted you with open arms and the Indian citizens at large would have been overjoyed to see a once parting brother return...so why didn't you ?

As for the under-representation and exploitation ! Yes...you were under-represented I believe the reasons for that were less malicious intent on our part and more an absence of any influx into Bengal ! One of the reasons why we parted company with India was because the Hindus had been smart enough to take up on the British offer and progress almost in every field whereas the Muslims by contrast, despite the lamentations of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, had failed to do so and it regressed even further after Urdu was replaced by English as the Official Language. Consequently when the Partition happened most of the businesses, the bureaucracy and academia was in the hands of the Hindus and when many of them left so was a vacuum created in our country; in West-Pakistan that vacuum was filled with the influx of the educated Mohajir Community who not only provided invaluable presence to fill that vacuum but reinvigorated the economy. Unfortunately East-Pakistan wasn't home to nearly enough Mohajir as we were hence the lack of representation over the years ! By some estimates the Mohajir comprised as much as 83% of all entrepreneurs in West Pakistan ! In an attempt to address this disparity Ayub Khan under his 5 year plan first introduced the quota system where 40% of all seats would be reserved for Bengalis in East Pakistan whereas 20% would be on merit and later in '67 this was revised to 60% reservation by also adding the 20% merit based seats to it as well ! Unfortunately it ran into a lot of trouble and didn't work as well as it should have but it managed to increase the representation of ethnic Bengalis in the army exponentially ! Bengalis who hadn't played a role in the British Indian Army since the 1857 revolt where the Bengal Regiment revolted the British started recruiting heavily the Punjabis and the Pukhtoons from amongst the Muslims ! So naturally it took time for the Bengalis to have any significant presence in the Armed Forces; according to the book Pakistan: failure of national integration by Rounaq Jahan as a result of these policies the once virtually none representation in the Army grew to 5% in case of Commission Officers, 8% for NCOs and 8& for JCOs ! In the Airforce it was much better at 17% for the COs, 14% for the Warrant Officers and 29% for Other Ranks whilst in the Navy it followed a nearly similar pattern as in the Airforce but with a little higher representation for Seamen at 30% but a much lower 5% at the Branch Officer level ! Certainly nothing to boast about but when nearly your entire army consisted of Pukhtoons and Punjabis Muslims who had decided to join the Pakistan Army once they were discharged from the British Indian Army it was bound to take time. The statistics for the Civil Servants are even worse for the reasons I mentioned before and all of the major industries were in West-Pakistan whereas East-Pakistan had to sent its jute to West-Pakistan's mills to be processed because every mill was in West-Bengal ! But even if one were to assume that West-Pakistani's were racists then tell me were the 4 PMs including Suhrawardy simply 'Poster Boys' ? Why didn't they address these issues when they were Bengalis and were elected from Bengal ? In the 7 years that they ruled out of an 11 year democratic rule....why didn't they do anything about any of this ? Could it be that they were working towards that just as all of them were but the combination of most Businessmen migrating to India, next to no natural resources in East-Pakistan, not a single industrial unit or a mill in East-Pakistan and no educated class immigrating to East-Pakistan to fill the vacuum created huge problems ?

As for the Urdu Language - He did that because it was our lingua-franca; it wasn't a language that the majority in West-Pakistan spoke - We spoke Punjabi and yet we accepted it ! So did the Baloch, the Sindhis, the Pukhtoons, the Kashmiris, the Hindkoans, the Baltis and numerous other ethnicities all over Pakistan....why did the Bengalis object when we didn't ? Why didn't you guys see the wisdom of the decision ? The Urdu language was not associated per se with any community but was spoken and understood by almost every community and consequently many, over the years, adopted it as their mother-tongue and came to be known as the Biharis, the Bijnauris or as we call them - the Urdu Speakers ! It was our Lingua-Franca - Our Common Tongue ! What else was supposed to be our 'National Language' - English...? And I quoted the Bengali because it was he who initiated the crack-down so its comical indeed !

We didn't join India after 1971 because we would be in the minority. Whatever reason you give for the under representation of Bangalis in the armed forces and the other important brances, but at the of the day the stats speak for itself. Having 4 poster boys in the top place surrounded by all west pakistani folks does not mean we bangalis had a proper representation. The balochis and the other minorities who took urdu were of a small population, we Bangalis had a bigger population than whole of west pakistan, we had our identity with a rich culture; a big population like east bengal shouldnt have been asked to change her language in the first place. If anything west pakistan should have adopted bangla since the majority of the nation spoke bangla.

 

[PakistaniandProud]

From what I noticed, many Bengalis have good opinion of Pakistan.

 

[scholseys]

From what I noticed, many Bengalis have good opinion of Pakistan.

mostly on pdf and its self explanatory.

 

[Thorough Pro]

A well deserved salp on the bengallis face..

Aree Imran Bhai........ Bangladesh to us is like Afghanistan to you. Only diff is, we have our pet regime there.

Had Hinuds succeded in their game, their would be no Pakistan (btw bangladesh exists only because Pakistan got freedom).

One can say Hindus played Jinnah and the muslims by sending them into 2 corners of India and naming those 2 corners as respective Pakistans. Muslims would have ruled the subcontinent by 2025 and by current state they would have a 40% population. Muslim brotherhood was dead as soon as that Jinnah went for partition and declined the offer for the role of PM.

 

[clmeta]

Are you Bangladeshi??? Did you get screwed when you got your independence???

Jinnah did not know Bengali sentiment well, I am guessing, and Indian funded RAWamy traitors took every opportunity to exploit all the mistakes by Pakistan leaders. Its easy to blame others, I always like to find fault on my own side first, because we can change ourselves, but we cannot change others.

By the way, I do not blame Indians either, it was their job to screw us, they did it well and it is us and our traitors to blame who allowed this to happen. And the situation continues till today.

Its completely the opposite. They started the Pakistan movement and Muslim league formed in Dhaka. Without the Bengali support their would be no Pakistan. And without India's support-- No Bangladesh.

A well deserved salp on the bengallis face..




Had Hinuds succeded in their game, their would be no Pakistan (btw bangladesh exists only because Pakistan got freedom).

Yes but its still your government.

we dont want any relation, please forgive our foreign minister visit, you know our govt is corrupt american puppet

 

[kalu_miah]

Are you Bangladeshi??? Did you get screwed when you got your independence???
Its completely the opposite. They started the Pakistan movement and Muslim league formed in Dhaka. Without the Bengali support their would be no Pakistan. And without India's support-- No Bangladesh.
Yes but its still your government.

None of any Indians business. Indians please stay out of Bangladesh matters that does not concern India.

 

[clmeta]

About Urdu, Western wing accepted this language which is not their mother tongue, why we could not? What is so special about Bengali?.

What a loser I see in this post. Self defeatist.

It good Bangladesh became a separate country otherwise India funded RAW army would have destroyed. You are atleast save now Kalu. You are under the protection of India funded RAW army.

Jinnah did not know Bengali sentiment well, I am guessing, and Indian funded RAWamy traitors took every opportunity to exploit all the mistakes by Pakistan leaders. Its easy to blame others, I always like to find fault on my own side first, because we can change ourselves, but we cannot change others.

By the way, I do not blame Indians either, it was their job to screw us, they did it well and it is us and our traitors to blame who allowed this to happen. And the situation continues till today.

Bangladesh and not our business??? Are you crazy???
You forgot the Indian funded RAW army????

None of any Indians business. Indians please stay out of Bangladesh matters that does not concern India.

 

[kalu_miah]

What a loser I see in this post. Self defeatist.

It good Bangladesh became a separate country otherwise India funded RAW army would have destroyed. You are atleast save now Kalu. You are under the protection of India funded RAW army.


Bangladesh and not our business??? Are you crazy???
You forgot the Indian funded RAW army????

As I said, none of Indians business, so please stop wasting each others time.

 

[clmeta]

Well once you mention India's name how can you say that????
Its not Indian's business as long as you keep India out. But you can't do that can you???

As I said, none of Indians business, so please stop wasting each others time.

 

[neutral_person]

As I said, none of Indians business, so please stop wasting each others time.

I think Bangladeshi matters are none of your business Mr. False Flagger. Its just too painfully obvious.

 

[Armstrong]

We didn't join India after 1971 because we would be in the minority. Whatever reason you give for the under representation of Bangalis in the armed forces and the other important brances, but at the of the day the stats speak for itself. Having 4 poster boys in the top place surrounded by all west pakistani folks does not mean we bangalis had a proper representation. The balochis and the other minorities who took urdu were of a small population, we Bangalis had a bigger population than whole of west pakistan, we had our identity with a rich culture; a big population like east bengal shouldnt have been asked to change her language in the first place. If anything west pakistan should have adopted bangla since the majority of the nation spoke bangla.

What an argument sir jeee....! By that logic the Punjabis - my People - are in the majority with a culture, history and hence an identity as deep as any so we should have made 'Punjabi' the official language when the current Constitution of Pakistan was being written in '73 ? Heck people might even benefit from reading 'Bulleh Shah' or 'Waris Shah' ! But we didn't because the Baloch, the Pukhtoons, the Sindhis, the Kashmiris, the Baltis and all other ethnicities in Pakistan have deep, deep identities of their own and exquisitely beautiful languages to express it ! Try listening to 'Akhtar Channal' when he is singing Barahvi folk songs or Pathane Khan when he's singing 'Sereiki' kafiyan - Brings tears to ones eyes....! And no shoving a language down their throat simply because 'Hey We're in the Majority' would be racist no matter what spin one gives it ! The beauty with Urdu was that all of us understood it...! From the dusty deserts of Balochistan to the Formidable peaks of Skardu all Pakistanis can speak with one another in this language....hence why Jinnah insisted on it ! Had English, Swahili or even Bangla been the lingua franca of the Indian Subcontinent we would have adopted it as 'Our National Language' ! So my friend...yes mistakes were made; massive mistakes were made and I won't say that some ill will may not be at play but you guys aren't entirely blameless either !

P.S We separated from India because we were a minority who perceived that their rights may not be protected in a United India...funny that logic doesn't apply to '71 but it applies to '47 !

P.P.S My ethnicity - the Kashmiris - are less than 2% of Pakistan's population and yet our representation in the Army is closer to 10%....why ? Surely the Bengalis didn't have horns or tails sprouting out of their bodies that they'd be subjected to a different criteria ? If it was the language or the culture or even 'religious disposition' then the Kashmiris fit that definition quite nicely - the Kashmiri civilization is around 6000 years old, the language - koshur - is pretty sweet and Kashmiris, generally, have followed a very benign syncretic Islam ! Why weren't they discriminated against ? Why weren't the Pukhtoons ? Why weren't the Sindhis ? Why Bengalis of all people....? My friend I won't deny that East-Pakistan suffered and maybe there were people in the West who had a vested interest in seeing that happen but the vast majority of us, West-Pakistanis, didn't ! Do you think that we're having a great time here in Pakistan that there are no problems whatsoever for the People living here ? Oh we do have them....we have a lot of problems but the difference is that we own upto them as our own; we don't piss over everything that we fought for by creating another country !

 

[clmeta]

The bengalis felt they were discreminated because way to many Pakistanis believe in Martial race theory created by the British.

What an argument sir jeee....! By that logic the Punjabis - my People - are in the majority with a culture, history and hence an identity as deep as any so we should have made 'Punjabi' the official language when the current Constitution of Pakistan was being written in '73 ? Heck people might even benefit from reading 'Bulleh Shah' or 'Waris Shah' ! But we didn't because the Baloch, the Pukhtoons, the Sindhis, the Kashmiris, the Baltis and all other ethnicities in Pakistan have deep, deep identities of their own and exquisitely beautiful languages to express it ! Try listening to 'Akhtar Channal' when he is singing Barahvi folk songs or Pathane Khan when he's singing 'Sereiki' kafiyan - Brings tears to ones eyes....! And no shoving a language down their throat simply because 'Hey We're in the Majority' would be racist no matter what spin one gives it ! The beauty with Urdu was that all of us understood it...! From the dusty deserts of Balochistan to the Formidable peaks of Skardu all Pakistanis can speak with one another in this language....hence why Jinnah insisted on it ! Had English, Swahili or even Bangla been the lingua franca of the Indian Subcontinent we would have adopted it as 'Our National Language' ! So my friend...yes mistakes were made; massive mistakes were made and I won't say that some ill will may not be at play but you guys aren't entirely blameless either !

P.S We separated from India because we were a minority who perceived that their rights may not be protected in a United India...funny that logic doesn't apply to '71 but it applies to '47 !

P.P.S My ethnicity - the Kashmiris - are less than 2% of Pakistan's population and yet our representation in the Army is closer to 10%....why ? Surely the Bengalis didn't have horns or tails sprouting out of their bodies that they'd be subjected to a different criteria ? If it was the language or the culture or even 'religious disposition' then the Kashmiris fit that definition quite nicely - the Kashmiri civilization is around 6000 years old, the language - koshur - is pretty sweet and Kashmiris, generally, have followed a very benign syncretic Islam ! Why weren't they discriminated against ? Why weren't the Pukhtoons ? Why weren't the Sindhis ? Why Bengalis of all people....? My friend I won't deny that East-Pakistan suffered and maybe there were people in the West who had a vested interest in seeing that happen but the vast majority of us, West-Pakistanis, didn't ! Do you think that we're having a great time here in Pakistan that there are no problems whatsoever for the People living here ? Oh we do have them....we have a lot of problems but the difference is that we own upto them as our own; we don't piss over everything that we fought for by creating another country !

 

[Armstrong]

The bengalis felt they were discreminated because way to many Pakistanis believe in Martial race theory created by the British.

That Martial Race theory is usually used to describe 'the Pukhtoons' and 'the Punjabis'; I can't speak for the Pukhtoons but had the Punjabs had an ounce of attachment to that theory there wouldn't be millions of ethnicities inhabiting the Province of Punjab who aren't traditionally considered 'Punjabis' ! I'm an ethnic Kashmiri but, within Pakistan, I'm a lover of Punjab and all things Punjabi and why because of the sense of 'love' and 'inclusivity' the Punjabi Culture is all about....! My forefathers came to this land and fell so terribly in love with the People and this Land that they, overtime, actually forgot their Mother tongues and took Punjabi as their language - No one forced them...no one still does ! You won't find Punjabi as a compulsory subject being offered either and yet the lot of us learned it and take great pride in calling ourselves sons of this soil ! Not once has a single Punjabi politician ever talked about how with the influx of these 'Non-Ethnic Punjabis' into our Province....our language is under threat or our culture is being lost or the demographics of the Province are changing or our vote bank is being diluted ! My family has inter-married amongst Punjabis to such an extent that my mother is a Punjabi Rajput and I'm not an isolated example all of us 'Non-Ethnic Punjabis' have intermarried amongst the Punjabis and identify very deeply with Punjab ! The Punjabi Baloch of DG Khan, the Punjabi Pukhtoons of Mianwalli, the Punjabi Urdu Speakers who came from UP etc. all parallel my condition and that of my People.....? Surely if the Punjabis had considered themselves 'a Martial Race' they would have asserted some of that 'Uniqueness' somewhere and not welcomed all of us with Open Arms. The Pukhtoons too have a similar story to tell ! So my friend this 'Martial Race' BS.....really is BS and we never believed it from Day One otherwise you'd at least see some evidence of it being practised amongst either of the two 'so-called Martial Races' !

 

[Dance]

Honestly I don't know why some members are still living in 1971 ( even though I'm pretty sure they weren't even alive then)

We've moved on. We don't care about you. You should do the same.