Pak Army isn't capable of fighting and Bajwa's Kashmir deal with India

[Mirzali Khan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650042767882559488

Hold up

A faujeet using a dubious journalist to defend the army

Now according to Imran Riaz and some other senior Journalists ....Hamid Mir all of a sudden comes on a planned TV show and revealed that....he is launched by PDM and try to put all the blame on Ex Chief while saving many more

Faujeet inside conspiracy

 

[Meengla]

What you wrote above, I have been saying the exact same thing to everyone that we are all inherently corrupt and seek easy ways out. We will not be honest ourselves but want the Judiciary, Military, Politicians etc., to be honest and pious even. We are hypocrites......but we were not like this; I believe we weren't always like this. Maybe we can go back to being normal and moral and good ourselves.

We became 'abnormal' starting with Zia ul Haq. Don't forget the same ruling class--the same Generals, the same Judiciary, the same political class, the same bureaucracy, the same traders, the same industrialists which ruled Pakistan for most of Pakistan's history had made Pakistan a nation more prosperous than India well into the 1980s. Even a Pakistan hater like Shehkar Gupta acknowledges that he was amazed when he visited Pakistan in the 1980s.
Not only the fanaticism we have been seeing destroying Pakistan started under Zia, but his devious way to keep himself in power by engineering the Non Party elections of 1985 and then swiftly turned that into a Party Based Parliament removed whatever was left in Pakistan of a political process: Money was always important in the politics of Pakistan, as it is worldwide. But the 1985 elections removed any pretenses of ethics and ideology. What we are seeing now is directly related to one more fateful decision that Zia made in 1985.

 

[Mav3rick]

We became 'abnormal' starting with Zia ul Haq. Don't forget the same ruling class--the same Generals, the same Judiciary, the same political class, the same bureaucracy, the same traders, the same industrialists which ruled Pakistan for most of Pakistan's history had made Pakistan a nation more prosperous than India well into the 1980s. Even a Pakistan hater like Shehkar Gupta acknowledges that he was amazed when he visited Pakistan in the 1980s.
Not only the fanaticism we have been seeing destroying Pakistan started under Zia, but his devious way to keep himself in power by engineering the Non Party elections of 1985 and then swiftly turned that into a Party Based Parliament removed whatever was left in Pakistan of a political process: Money was always important in the politics of Pakistan, as it is worldwide. But the 1985 elections removed any pretenses of ethics and ideology. What we are seeing now is directly related to one more fateful decision that Zia made in 1985.

I would say that the taint started with Ayub, his lust for power and land; while the former laid the foundation for splitting of the Nation with accusations even against Fatima Jinnah, the later resulted in DHA's and Askari's and now much much more. Bhutto's era wasn't much better as he laid the foundation of corruption in the Judiciary and Bureaucracy and further fueled intolerance of ethnicities etc. Zia added the deadly flavour of religion as per his own liking and interpretation and I guess every successive Government, civilian or not, has exploited those fault lines for personal benefits.

 

[Olympus81]

I think we are giving too much credence to Hamid Mir and his group of ilks.

But when it came to Swift Retort, IK and army was on same page. The retaliation happened, despite allegedly sweating and all those comments. So one shouldn’t be bashing Bajwa during the Swift Retort instance atleast.

As a policy statement, it’s well known Bajwa and his Corp Commanders wanted to go easy on India and improve trade relations.

Next, its well known Bajwa and his cronies kept on making overtures through 3rd parties to keep themselves in the good books of US. If that meant peace and trade with India, they were willing to go ahead in direct conflict with the state policy.

In summary, main objective was to give himself an extension, secondary objective to be continue with an extremely pro US policy, which entailed normalisation of relations with India.

Slam dunk case of Article 6 on this duffer.

 

[EternalMortal]

P.S. your comment on a party being kicked out despite willing and capable if improving the economic and diplomatic situation; I seriously hope you did not mean PTI because I must have hundreds of posts debunking the myth on both accounts.

You haven't "debunked" anything.

The solution being worked on ever since Musharraf and Vajpayee attempted to resolve the long standing, bloody issue was demilitarization of entire Kashmir, the turning of LoC to IB after which our other issues could also be worked out. By National Security I take it you mean the water issue? Any idea how much water we already waste because of not building dams and the excessive waste of water in irrigation due to obsolete technology (no drip irrigation still), theft and tax-free use?

You do realize that your water supply runs through IOK, right? We have a treaty but they've been violating it for years. You think the Indians care about Tibet b/c they love the ppl? No, it's because Indian waters originate from there.

Also, Hindutvadis don't just claim IOK. They want ALL of Kashmir & GB. That's what peaceniks like you don't get. The moment you make a deal on IOK they're then going to demand more & more.

Lastly, religiocultural ties & our own ideology means that we can't abandon them.

1. A referendum will either never take place, as India will not allow it; or it will take place once India has altered the dynamics and made sure that there are more Hindus in the population count than there are Muslims. Plus the fact that people of occupied Kashmir have no interest in living under Pakistan.....recall operation Gibraltar? You may also note that the world stands with India on diplomatic matters as India is a major financial power and most important countries have trade ties which they do not want to jeopardize because of Pakistan.
2. And get declared as a rouge state sponsoring terrorism? get on the FATF Black list? get on UNSC abn lists etc.?
3. Again, refer to point 2 above.

No, you're not going to be declared a state sponsor of terrorism or be put on any list. There's a difference b/w supporting non-state insurgents & a GOV-IN-EXILE. See the Syria model. The lack of a referendum would justify supporting it. It's an internationally recognized right. Plus, as I said you'll be getting international support for it as well via OIC conferences, etc. Also, see point 7. You're not doing all these things in isolation.

If we weren't declared one when the US would accuse us daily of supporting Taliban, what makes you think they'll do it now? The disparity b/w Pak & India has never been higher & yet we've at most been put on FATF. Let's be real here, India isn't that important & the Chinese wouldn't allow it anyway.
The FATF also can't just put us back on the list w/o a vote & considering we already meet their requirements AND we're not supporting non-state insurgent groups, it would be very difficult. FYI, being put on the FATF is not the reason for our economic problems. FATF is not a sanctions regime. It's the misgovernance, corruption & lack of good economic policy that has got us to where we are now.

US financial hegemony is collapsing anyway. More & more countries are now trying to bypass the US financial system. Already, share of dollar reserves is only about 50%. Neither sanctions nor FATF will mean much in the near future (Ironically, it was sanctions & their threat that kickstarted our defence industry).

The only reason there's a disparity in diplomacy is b/c of economy. If the generals stick to their own jobs & let PTI handle economy the disparity would diminish.

Regarding Kashmiris, this isn't 1965. They have had an indigenous armed rebellion for 3 decades now.

4. Repair relations and gain influence on Bangladesh for what exactly? And can this influence be more than the Indian influence?

Read the above points for what exactly. You don't have to outmatch Indian influence. However, India is the biggest security threat to Bangladesh. There will always be friendly elements that will be willing to help us.

6. ??

The point is self-explanatory. Joint-ops in case of war.

7. Seriously?? And antagonize Saudi Arabia even more?

Why would this piss of the Saudis if they're being invited to it? They & the GCC would most likely have even more influence than they have now.

8. With several interlapping layers, could that be as multu-layered and multi-vendor as the Indian BMD?

Whatever works. A BMD will become more viable as technology becomes more advanced.

9. Again, to what end? They already have a population of a Billion and have roots deeper and stronger all over the world than we do

The purpose of IW is to uproot those "roots". You're obviously going to be working on your own soft power as well.

10. India will trade with us even when we follow the steps you want us to follow?

Maybe, maybe not. If you produce something they want then their business class wouldn't care. Hence, why their trade with China continues to increase. Not a huge deal if they don't. We've barely even tapped the rest of the world market so let's worry about that.

At the end of the day, India is going to bring war to your doorstep. They're not going to stop at IOK. Pakistanis need to come out of this delusion that we can have peace with India. So you need to decide whether it's on your terms or theirs. Making excuses without trying anything isn't a strategy.

 

[Meengla]

I would say that the taint started with Ayub, his lust for power and land; while the former laid the foundation for splitting of the Nation with accusations even against Fatima Jinnah, the later resulted in DHA's and Askari's and now much much more. Bhutto's era wasn't much better as he laid the foundation of corruption in the Judiciary and Bureaucracy and further fueled intolerance of ethnicities etc. Zia added the deadly flavour of religion as per his own liking and interpretation and I guess every successive Government, civilian or not, has exploited those fault lines for personal benefits.

I don't know much about Fatima Jinnah's campaign except what my dad told me--something like she ran a popular campaign, giving Ayub Khan tough time. I don't know if my family in Karachi supported her or not: We are from a textile industry background for generations, with origin in India, and under Ayub Khan's rule we greatly prospered. I don't know why we would have supported Fatima Jinnah against Ayub Khan. Maybe we did, maybe we didn't. My dad is gone to ask him that question now. But I also think Ayub Khan was an honest, hard-working person who did much good for Pakistan. I'd even say that today's Pakistan is even standing because of much of what he had accomplished. Never forget that by 1958, Pakistan was in a chaos. Never forget the number of Prime Ministers who, since the death of Liaqat Ali Khan, were inducted and removed.

But, yes, had Fatima Jinnah won in 1964, there wouldn't be a 1971. I don't particularly shed tears on the formation of Bangladesh. I think it was inevitable but not in 1971, starting with there is no 'B' in Pakistan. But I wish it was a peaceful divorce. I wish BD well.

About Bhutto despite all his faults--and there are many--religious extremism was not his introduction. The guy was a whiskey-drinking, Western-looking, wanna-be Socialist blah, blah. A tyrant, feudal hypocrite. But still towered above the pigmies that followed him especially with his foreign policy achievements before and after 1971. Even his worst critics--who are in the Noon League for obvious reasons--acknowledge him now. That he caved into to a few acts of 'Islamism' in his rule was under intense pressure from the religious lobbies. Otherwise, Bhutto was fine fooling people with his 'Socialism' to keep getting power. Not only he was going to be a clear winner in 1977, rigging or not, but in the 1979 municipal elections, despite Zia killing him, his political party won handsomely in Pakistan.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

debunking

Faujeet propaganda can't debunk crap lol.

I think this is meant to throw crap at establishment before Supreme court judgment comes out. I think its zardari behind all of it as he's eyeing for the presidency.

@PakFactor

Do you also think this is the case?

 

[Trango Towers]

I think we are giving too much credence to Hamid Mir and his group of ilks.

But when it came to Swift Retort, IK and army was on same page. The retaliation happened, despite allegedly sweating and all those comments. So one shouldn’t be bashing Bajwa during the Swift Retort instance atleast.

As a policy statement, it’s well known Bajwa and his Corp Commanders wanted to go easy on India and improve trade relations.

Next, its well known Bajwa and his cronies kept on making overtures through 3rd parties to keep themselves in the good books of US. If that meant peace and trade with India, they were willing to go ahead in direct conflict with the state policy.

In summary, main objective was to give himself an extension, secondary objective to be continue with an extremely pro US policy, which entailed normalisation of relations with India.

Slam dunk case of Article 6 on this duffer.

If bajwa had objected during Swift Retort he would have been lynched by the public and he knew that.

Sadly bajwa and Co love money more than Allah. They fear America more than Allah. Pakistani awaan and foot soldiers are the opposite when it come to fearing Allah alone.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Meengla sb,

You are right about FM Ayub Khan. I consider him the first Vikas Purush (aka Development Man) of the subcontinent. It was a pity that he allowed himself to be misled by warmongers like ZAB else Pak would have become the first Asian Tiger (much before the term itself would be coined)

Regards

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Hamid Mir mixes half truth with hundred percent lies.

The worst person in journalism, a double agent of sorts, keep changing his colors faster than a chameleon.

 

[Zarrar Alvi]

He was selling the same thing in every get together and during the SSGs HQ visit he said the same back in 2019. One of the young officer Who came back from LOC few months ago Confronted the Chief . By saying. " we have a upper hand on the Indians sir I personally took down 30 of them in Rajouri they are deserting their posts and you are forcing us to believe that we can't fight them "

 

[sparten]

Which child abusing fraud?

Gharidah.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Gharidah.

Yeah I know her name, but what's with the child abusing?

 

[sparten]

Yeah I know her name, but what's with the child abusing?

Famous Anchor Gharida Farooqi commits Child Abuse at Home? – Outlook Pakistan

www.outlookpakistan.com

Domestic worker recovered from TV anchor Gharida Farooqi's house

The girl's father had moved a Lahore court seeking the recovery of his daughter from Farooqi's home.

www.dawn.com

A sorry and sordid affair.

 

[NA71]

Our Army says it can’t fight or provide security.

Our election commission says it cannot carry out elections.

The PMLN government says it can’t govern and beggers can’t be choosers.

Some of the judges led by Fayez Issa say they can’t take up matter of constitutional right.

NAB can’t prosecute corruption matters.

What the hell is this joke? In sabh ko ghar bhaijo.

yeh sab kahtey hain ham ghar nahein jaein gay petrol nahein hy

we are on course of self destruction ..... simple