Pak Army Atheist Soldier Decorated and Promoted.

[SarthakGanguly]

It is a rather congratulatory thread but I don't see why a discussion cannot be had...especially bcuz it wouldn't be too off topic. The OP has personal relations with PA lads and is basing his conclusion based on actual accounts. Can u refute his claims with such an account u personally witnessed? Do u know soldiers serving in PA?

I can start with asking ONE question.

What is the motto of Pakistan Army and what is its emblem? I can continue, but really don't wish to.

 

[PakForce]

I can start with asking ONE question.

What is the motto of Pakistan Army and what is its emblem? I can continue, but really don't wish to.

Sir I understanding the sentiment, but policy does the changing all the time. Initially Pak was 1 secular country, but was primarily for as homeland of Muslims. Then policy change to Islamic republic bcoz it wsa best decision for Pakistan.

If tomorrow Pakistan is gaining from secular, then I stand by it 100% as proud Pakistani.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Sir I understanding the sentiment, but policy does the changing all the time. Initially Pak was 1 secular country, but was primarily for as homeland of Muslims. Then policy change to Islamic republic bcoz it wsa best decision for Pakistan.

If tomorrow Pakistan is gaining from secular, then I stand by it 100% as proud Pakistani.

Pakistan was never a secular country, it was established based on religion. Iqbal, Chowdhury etc all were unanimous in this. But then that is not my concern.

 

[PakForce]

Pakistan was never a secular country, it was established based on religion. Iqbal, Chowdhury etc all were unanimous in this. But then that is not my concern.

Yes, but for the Muslims of India. This because the British change it so to making Hindus rich and powerful, when as before it was the Muslims empires. So Pakistani Muslims were scared to be under Hindu hostile environment. That not mean if someone want to serve Pakistani Muslims, and he become the athiest, that we execution him. If he athiest he was the born Muslim, and raised in Muslim country like Pakistan.

 

[AUz]

I can start with asking ONE question.

What is the motto of Pakistan Army

Iman, Taqwa, Jihad Fi Sibillilah!

English: A follower of none but Allah, the fear of Allah's commandments, Jihad in the way of Allah

Such a kickass motto..especially compared to dull indian army motto of "service before self"

Wouldn't you agree?

what is its emblem?

Two swords under the crescent

(Clear Islamic imagery, I know).

Now having answered your question, I would still restate what I restated earlier: Pakistan Army is a neutral institute that doesn't care for your religious background, or ethnicity.

Pakistan Army is a Muslim army but even the classical Muslim armies were "neutral" with lots of non-Muslims fighting and rising in the ranks.

So I don't know what's your point?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Iman, Taqwa, Jihad Fi Sibillilah!

English: A follower of none but Allah, the fear of Allah's commandments, Jihad in the way of Allah

Such a kickass motto..especially compared to dull indian army motto of "service before self"

Wouldn't you agree?

Two swords under the crescent

(Clear Islamic imagery, I know).

Now having answered your question, I would still restate what I restated earlier: Pakistan Army is a neutral institute that doesn't care for your religious background, or ethnicity.

Pakistan Army is a Muslim army but even the classical Muslim armies were "neutral" with lots of non-Muslims fighting and rising in the ranks.

So I don't know what's your point?

I really don't feel like quoting your officers with their openly 'neutral' statements in this thread. And I am not talking about Hamid Gul. PA is an Islamic Institution with a few handful of minority community soldiers in its ranks. It is the military arm of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I can start with asking ONE question.

What is the motto of Pakistan Army and what is its emblem? I can continue, but really don't wish to.

That doesn't prove that they discriminate against people of other faiths(or atheists), which is the point that OP is making and u r refuting. The emblem and motto only reflect what Pakistan was meant for. It was to safeguard Muslims of the subcontinent and their rights
...this also means that ppl of other faiths are free to practice their faith in Pakistan as well since that is what Islam teaches and no doubt u can see that in PA.

In any case u would have to provide specific examples of where someone was denied entry into PA for having a different religion. Or they were discriminated against/treated unfairly bcuz of their different faith.

On the contrary u will find many decorated and highly respected soldiers of many different faiths and backgrounds.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

That doesn't prove that they discriminate against people of other faiths(or atheists), which is the point that OP is making and u r refuting. The emblem and motto only reflect what Pakistan was meant for. It was to safeguard Muslims of the subcontinent and their rights
...this also means that ppl of other faiths are free to practice their faith in Pakistan as well since that is what Islam teaches and no doubt u can see that in PA.

In any case u would have to provide specific examples of where someone was denied entry into PA for having a different religion. Or they were discriminated against/treated unfairly bcuz of their different faith.

On the contrary u will find many decorated and highly respected soldiers of many different faiths and backgrounds.

Yeah, I never said that. There must not be overt discrimination. Because its bad for discipline.

But can a Hindu be the Chief of the Armed Forces?

It's ok. I fail to understand why you all feel it so embarrassing.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I really don't feel like quoting your officers with their openly 'neutral' statements in this thread. And I am not talking about Hamid Gul. PA is an Islamic Institution with a few handful of minority community soldiers in its ranks. It is the military arm of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

How can we have a huge amount of our minority community in the army if they are the MINORITY community?

Logically one would find the MAJORITY population to be a MAJORITY in all the institutions and MINORITY population to be a MINORITY in all institutions.

Using ur logic ur army must discriminate against White ppl bcuz there aren't any(or few) White ppl in the Indian Army and Hindus form the majority of it.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

How can we have a huge amount of our minority community in the army if they are the MINORITY community?

Logically one would find the MAJORITY population to be a MAJORITY in all the institutions and MINORITY population to be a MINORITY in all institutions.

Using ur logic ur army must discriminate against White ppl bcuz there aren't any(or few) White ppl in the Indian Army and Hindus form the majority of it.

Not about numbers. IA has only 3% Muslims and only 55% Hindus. Numbers don't tell everything. About official positions. Personal commitments. War diaries, published memoirs, interviews etc.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah, I never said that. There must not be overt discrimination. Because its bad for discipline.

But can a Hindu be the Chief of the Armed Forces?

It's ok. I fail to understand why you all feel it so embarrassing.

So there's no overt discrimination as u admit. For the covert discrimination plz tell me where and when it happened as I asked u earlier and u failed to respond to that

...that is unless u don't know of any specific cases bcuz u know it was done covertly. If that's the case well then u r basing ur opinion on absolutely zero information.

Not about numbers. IA has only 3% Muslims and only 55% Hindus. Numbers don't tell everything. About official positions. Personal commitments. War diaries, published memoirs, interviews etc.

So if numbers don't tell everything then what was the point of ur earlier statement in post #131
"PA is an Islamic Institution with a few handful of minority community soldiers in its ranks"

 

[CBU-105]

what makes someone a "hardcore atheist compared to a "regular" atheist??? if he doesn't believe in god, then the lack of god is probably not on his mind 24/7 either!

Bad choice of words on my part. I meant to ask if the guy would refuse to swear on the quran and not chant allah akbar etc when the rest do, in a place like the US, for example, that would be totally acceptable, not so sure one would get away with it in an islamic republic like Pakistan, it might even be considered blasphemous, right ?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

So there's no overt discrimination as u admit.

I did not say that.

General(retd) Amjad Shoaib
I can quote other memoirs. Except Agha Amin, most I read had some anti Hindu or anti Qadiani convictions.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Bad choice of words on my part. I meant to ask if the guy would refuse to swear on the quran and not chant allah akbar etc when the rest do, in a place like the US, for example, that would be totally acceptable, not so sure one would get away with it in an islamic republic like Pakistan, it might even be considered blasphemous, right ?

It would not be considered blasphemous as he is not insulting Islam by not chanting Allah-u-Akbar. The blasphemy law is meant to protect all recognised religions from being insulted.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The blasphemy law is meant to protect all recognised religions from being insulted.

That is uncalled for. Dharma (Hinduism/Buddhism/Sikhism) do not have any such riti/rule. There is NO apostasy/penalty. God, you are too apologetic.