Pak Army Atheist Soldier Decorated and Promoted.

[Neptune]

I think fighting for the nation of states system is against the whole idea of being atheist. Why would such a person be willing to die for a country like Pakistan.

Me is one example. I think this is rather about a common perception that anything that revolts a state involves anti-religious or atheistic beliefs. It's quite different. Be it a hardcore religious soldier or an atheist one, they all have different motives to join the service ranging from financial reasons to pure nationalism. But the thing is they are all under one umbrella which is to pledge loyalty to the oath they took to serve their country. It would only be disrespectful to divide or categorize men and women serving their country by ethnicity, religion or other irrelevant things which is something the Pakistani military is pretty much able to succeed at.

So I give my utmost gratitude and respect to PA in this regard from an outsider friend.

 

[MastanKhan]

Either one is with Ummet-i Muslimeen or with Ummet-i Mujrimeen. Unfortunately, there's no third party...

Hi,

Those are just loose terms that can be easily used under any circumstance.

It has nothing to do with the discussion. Besides, when I was born -- I did not had teeth either, neither any speaking ability. Just like any other kid.

Hi,

But then if you left in the jungle like " Tarzan "---your teeth would still have grown and but no religion.

Whomsoever claimed you would teach you their religion and their manner of speech.

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

Hi,

But then if you left in the jungle like " Tarzan "---your teeth would still have grown and but no religion.

Whomsoever claimed you would teach you their religion and their manner of speech.

Every single thing is taught to kids, none of the ability they carry intrinsically. And most of the time, civilization emerged in jungles have 'religion'.

And, there is great portion of society who does not stick to the religion which their parents have made them believe.

 

[MastanKhan]

Every single thing is taught to kids, none of the ability they carry intrinsically. And most of the time, civilization emerged in jungles have 'religion'.

And, there is great portion of society who does not stick to the religion which their parents have made them believe.

So---what is the issue then!

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

So---what is the issue then!

Nothing.

 

[terry5]

Thank you, when this forum is at it's best, it allows frank exchanges of views and enriches both the users and this forum.

Just talking from personal experience some of the best Soldiers in the Army are Ismailis from the northern areas, the NLI is a brilliant and tough formation in the military, their toughness and discipline are legendary.

The Ahmedi community though small, has produced some of our most talented and tactically proficient officers.

The Parsi and Christian Officers have been been brilliant in the PAF.

The Navy has some very tough Makrani (Black) soldiers who are showing the way, with their toughness and discipline.

All sons of this great country, and now daughters are coming through as well, with minority communities leading the way.

note the religions of the kufr mentioned yet the sunnis from the navy are mentioned for the colour of there skin .

very tough Black

 

[LeGenD]

Personally,the much I have read atheist, safely assuming almost all of them, dont really support the nations of state concept either. Hence, there is no clear motive for them to join the armies and give up their only life for something which is un-natural and un-philosophical. Considering the fact the most the armies not highest paying professions in the world.

American army is a different thing, there may be several reasons to join US army. US and Pakistan are two entirely opposite concepts in the eyes of atheists.

Hmm, interesting. Enlighten me a bit when you have time.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Regarding a fella, I know - who is the son of a historically well known Sindhi Nationalist family, to cut a long story short this guy was bought up as an atheist.

This lad has had an awesome start to his career, he has served on both hostile borders and taken part in many of the COIN operations in the country.

Just recently learned through a mutual friend, that he has been decorated for services on the eastern border.

He has also been promoted, like the thread I posted about him before, his fellow Officers and Soldiers know of his thoughts and though some of them disagree, he is well respected and loved.

According to my information BBZ is interested in meeting him, because his family is one that you would never expect military service from, (some members of his family were separatists).

The PA has always had a true "secular" tradition, encouraging all of its sons and daughters to take part in the defence of the "mother" MOTHERLAND.

All the men and women, who serve the nation of whatever race, religion or creed, are to be respected, and saluted.

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

cool story but you call Pakistan army secular? I dare you 90+% of soldiers were resign or abandon the army if you officially declare Pakistan as a secular army.

 

[Lavrentiy]

a hardcore atheist, like one who won't swear on the quran or chant any religious slogans while others do ?

More likely a closet atheist. There are quite a few in Pakistan. Some of my close friends are closet atheists.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

cool story but you call Pakistan army secular? I dare you 90+% of soldiers were resign or abandon the army if you officially declare Pakistan as a secular army.

I doubt it.. In the army ones beliefs are his personal baggage.

 

[Khanate]

cool story but you call Pakistan army secular? I dare you 90+% of soldiers were resign or abandon the army if you officially declare Pakistan as a secular army.

The News: 89 percent Pakistanis willing to fight for motherland (Gallup Survey)

 

[SW187]

His atheism or religious views have nothing to do with his performance as a soldier.

I am unsure why is it even a thread? Any soldier who does his job well will be rewarded.

Even in Prophet's time, Jews fought alongside with Muslims against outside enemies.

Btw, the correct word to use here is not "secular"

It's "neutral"..

Pakistan Army is not a "secular" institute but a "neutral" institute when it comes to individual religious beliefs of its solders and officers (as long as those beliefs are kept strictly personal and out of professional service).

@Rafi @SarthakGanguly

Agreed. Fighting for your country, especially when it is a job you have taken and are getting paid for, have nothing to do with religion. Any soldier who does his duties proficiently should be allowed promotion.

Exactly, those who sacrifice their family and friends need to have a clear motive for this. I dont see atheism offers that.

Why do you have to have a belief in God, to have love for your family, friends, or country? They are not mutually exclusive.

If that were true USSR and China won't have armies.

EXACTLY!

Not here; 90% of the soldiers you ask this question will reply 'Religion'. Islam is the driving force of the Military.

I think you made up that #

I take issue with this inability to separate logically one thing from another. Recognising this man's contribution to the nation as an atheist, is not the same thing as unrecognised the same done by Muslims or any other religion.

These can be mutually exclusive positions, so please tell me why so many people that have a problem with atheism in this thread and make it so?

And I'm not bashing the country, I'm saying religion is not always a metric for a judge of a man, especially this man who has no religion, yet there are many Muslims in the country, some who are as great as him, and some who gave their lives for the country. Yet others are those, Muslims too, who've only robbed the country blind, wronged their country men or contributed nothing.

Each man's contribution is his own regardless of his religion, this man's lack of religion takes nothing away from his service in my opinion.

Well said

a hardcore atheist, like one who won't swear on the quran or chant any religious slogans while others do ?

what makes someone a "hardcore atheist compared to a "regular" atheist??? if he doesn't believe in god, then the lack of god is probably not on his mind 24/7 either!

 

[Pakistani E]

I am 100% sure since my own cousin fill this form before ISSB (required for ISSB) that I am declare that I am Muslim and does't now follow Ahmadiya or Lahori group. (In case a person choose Islam as religion)

for non-Muslims this section is not necessary.

There are thousands of Ahmadis in Pakistani Armed forces. There is no law that says Ahmadis cannot join the Army. Several have been martyred in operations against TTP including a Major. Stop trying to divide Pakistani army by using religion.

Plus, why do you care? You want to be a Bedouin.

 

[SW187]

There are thousands of Ahmadis in Pakistani Armed forces. There is no law that says Ahmadis cannot join the Army. Several have been martyred in operations against TTP including a Major. Stop trying to divide Pakistani army by using religion.

Well said.
Internal strife based on sectarianism is what weakens your country, and your enemies sit back and smile.

Here is the thing. Do we want the help of Allah the Almighty when we perform Jihad against the Kuffaar? If that is so, we cannot be simply a 'secular army'. We have to be God Fearing Muslims. And that means excluding those who have dared to question the finality of Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam as the Messenger and Prophet of Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'aala.

Let's not kid ourselves. Islam is a take it or leave it religion. And especially the 'Ghaibi Nusrat' of Allah the Almighty requires an extremely high level of faith. A high level of faith does not go together with friendship of Qaadiyanis.

The real strength of Pak Army isn't in the nuclear bombs, or the aircrafts, or any weaponry or training. The real strength is the Jazaba-e-Jihaad which makes even an unarmed soldier a potent weapon against the enemy.

There is no pride in Qaadiyanis being appointed in key places in the army or in the government. They WILL use their power and influence to forward their poisonous agenda against the Muslims. It is a matter of utmost shame, and it just goes on to show how far away our leaders are from the true teachings of Islam.

May Allah give Hidayah to our leaders so they may transform Pakistan into a true bastion of Islam. Aaameen.

Actually the strength of the "Pak Army" is the nukes, aircraft, weapons, and training, otherwise you would be the same as the Taliban, who got bombed by the Americans and had their country taken away( were they not God-fearing muslims?!), and India would do the same to you as well, so cut the bullsh.it.
Thankfully for Pakistan, the military isn't run by people with your mentality.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Since you quoted me - I would not call it neutral either. But I will resist from making further posts explaining my position. I expect this to be a congratulatory thread instead of one of debate.

It is a rather congratulatory thread but I don't see why a discussion cannot be had...especially bcuz it wouldn't be too off topic. The OP has personal relations with PA lads and is basing his conclusion based on actual accounts. Can u refute his claims with such an account u personally witnessed? Do u know soldiers serving in PA?