Pak Army Atheist Soldier Decorated and Promoted.

[CBU-105]

It would not be considered blasphemous as he is not insulting Islam by not chanting Allah-u-Akbar. The blasphemy law is meant to protect all recognised religions from being insulted.

what about refusing to swear on the quran or holding your hands out like they do with islamic prayer etc ?

 

[SW187]

Bad choice of words on my part. I meant to ask if the guy would refuse to swear on the quran and not chant allah akbar etc when the rest do, in a place like the US, for example, that would be totally acceptable, not so sure one would get away with it in an islamic republic like Pakistan, it might even be considered blasphemous, right ?

Possibly
Well, first we must inquire if religious slogans are said in the military (or should be)......I'm not sure if they are
I really don't see a problem with non muslims being part of a military of a muslim country if they are loyal residents of the country. Everyone understands what "home" is and would want to defend it.
I'm the 1st generation born in Canada in my family, and this is home to me, and I would defend it, and would take offence to anyone questioning my allegiance because of my race or religion

 

[Cookie Monster]

I did not say that.

General(retd) Amjad Shoaib
I can quote other memoirs. Except Agha Amin, most I read had some anti Hindu or anti Qadiani convictions.

There's a difference between a person and an institution. I have come across many racist ppl(and many nice ones too) in US but based on that I'm not going to say that US discriminates against its Muslim citizens bcuz it doesn't. The laws are the same and the law is upheld above anybody's personal feelings. The same goes for PA, it doesn't say that u must be Muslims to join and it follows through on its code as an institution. There are many examples of well decorated and well respected Non Muslims, whereas u have yet to give me an example of a soldier that supports ur argument.

what about refusing to swear on the quran or holding your hands out like they do with islamic prayer etc ?

Not sure what u r referring to...U mean like in the court?

That is uncalled for. Dharma (Hinduism/Buddhism/Sikhism) do not have any such riti/rule. There is NO apostasy/penalty. God, you are too apologetic.

Read up before saying something. This rule is not from a religion but rather a law in Pakistan that was created to protect all recognised religions from being insulted.

It is analogous to how in France they banned Burqa...it applies to all their subjects equally regardless of if those religions "have such riti/rule" or not. I remember there was a thread running about that to which many Indians were like "their land their rules...don't like it then leave".

I state some facts about the blasphemy law and all of a sudden u label me as apologetic bcuz that rule doesn't go along with Hinduism/Buddhism/Sikhism well. Whatever happened to "their land their rules"? Oh right I forgot bcuz this time the country in question is Pakistan and therefore ur personal feelings are involved. In case of France it's all good and jolly. Nice double standards there buddy.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The News: 89 percent Pakistanis willing to fight for motherland (Gallup Survey)

I doubt it.. In the army ones beliefs are his personal baggage.

Go and find a single video where commander is addressing his solders with secular talk infact it always ends with a takbeer

 

[CriticalThought]

Well said.
Internal strife based on sectarianism is what weakens your country, and your enemies sit back and smile.


Actually the strength of the "Pak Army" is the nukes, aircraft, weapons, and training, otherwise you would be the same as the Taliban, who got bombed by the Americans and had their country taken away( were they not God-fearing muslims?!), and India would do the same to you as well, so cut the bullsh.it.
Thankfully for Pakistan, the military isn't run by people with your mentality.

Nukes, aircraft, weapons, and training are only as powerful as the general signing a declaration of surrender. It is Iman that keeps people fighting against all odds, and it is Allah's Divine Help that brings success. As explained by religious scholars, His treatment of Muslims is different. If we do not adhere to His Commands and His Religion, we shall meet our downfall, nukes and all. Remember, it only takes a general signing a declaration of surrender.

 

[Silverblaze]

Sir respectfully, I would like to add to your knowledge that according to the Holy Prophet (ﷺ)'s saying all children are born on the nature i.e. Islam since Islam is the way of the nature. However parents, environment and society influence the faith of the child as he or she grows into believing other stuff. However when one finds the truth and embraces Islam, it is often referred to as "reverted" to Islam instead of converted.

That means if a child is allowed to grow without any influences from the parents or society, they will grow with the core set of fundamental teachings of Islam, i.e. there is only one God ..he or she may not know the proper word for it but the belief will be there....similarly he or she will believe in preserving nature, covering him or herself up with whatever available..

Nukes, aircraft, weapons, and training are only as powerful as the general signing a declaration of surrender. It is Iman that keeps people fighting against all odds, and it is Allah's Divine Help that brings success. As explained by religious scholars, His treatment of Muslims is different. If we do not adhere to His Commands and His Religion, we shall meet our downfall, nukes and all. Remember, it only takes a general signing a declaration of surrender.

Define iman and muslims? You and your esteemed scholars have failed to define these terms around the world. Hence the rest is secondary. Read the Justice munir report for starters. thank u.

 

[Khanate]

Go and find a single video where commander is addressing his solders with secular talk infact it always ends with a takbeer

Spoken like a millennial, i.e., if it's not on YouTube, did it ever happen?

 

[Silverblaze]

Except that is exactly what 'Westerners' do. In Pakistan people have a very wrong perception of 'West', 'Westerner', and 'Liberalism'. And that is because sweet pills are administered through the pro-Western media about 'equality', 'tolerance' etc. Of course! Why wouldn't the non-Muslim West want to place non-Muslims in key positions of power in Muslim lands so they can forever control and manipulate them.

Now, in 'democratic', 'modern', 'liberal', 'Western' countries, they don't believe in all that B.S. No Sir! They don't. They believe in racist, bigoted, biased, anti-Islam, anti-Muslim policies. Let me open your eyes to the reality. Please meet "Pauline Hanson's One Nation' party in Australia. Now, before you think these are some small time, unimportant nobodies, please observe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Hanson's_One_Nation


Here is the official mandate of this party. They got elected on the basis of this published agenda. Please note not just the vitriol, but also the outright lies, the deception, and the outright disinformation that is being spread.

http://www.onenation.com.au/policies/halal-certification


At the very end of the page
http://www.onenation.com.au/policies/immigration


http://www.onenation.com.au/policies/islam


And anti-Islam diatribe is part of the Australian political process:

Here is the reality @Jungibaaz and since you are an intelligent person I believe you already know this, but you feign ignorance because throwing around 'tolerance', 'equality' etc. serves your purpose. The reality is that everywhere people try to protect their way of life. The Islamic way of life in a Muslim country is a system in which Islam informs everything from matters of state to matters of personal life. Here is how Hazrat Umar May Allah be Pleased with him used to appoint people into office:

From Hayat-us-Sahabah Vol 2


Now you can argue that in the military we need certain attributes to be an officer, but the point is most definitely a non-Muslim cannot be appointed officer or 'ameer' over Muslims. That is, if we want to follow the teachings of Holy Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam.

West has the blood of an entire civilization on its hand, so arguing over their morality is futile. Our problem is people like you who imo are the worst divisive hypocritical lot of all. Why would many like you reside in the west where Allah's sovereignty is not even recognized? A secular country is Dar ul Kufr for you, so willingly migrating to Dar ul Kufr and may be acquiring citizenship should make one an unbeliever. All the talk of praising a great caliph is just rhetoric then from such quarters.

 

[CriticalThought]

Define iman and muslims? You and your esteemed scholars have failed to define these terms around the world. Hence the rest is secondary. Read the Justice munir report for starters. thank u.

I have been 'modded' once already for derailing the thread. I'd rather not invite the kind attentions of @Jungibaaz once more. Oooops I think I just did...

 

[Silverblaze]

I have been 'modded' once already for derailing the thread. I'd rather not invite the kind attentions of @Jungibaaz once more. Oooops I think I just did...

Brilliant tactic to hide. Take care.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

The News: 89 percent Pakistanis willing to fight for motherland (Gallup Survey)

My post is offtopic but the above is one of the most sublimely ironical bits of data I have seen. Consider this:

In general, people who say they would be most willing to fight for their country are the ones who would probably sell their souls (and are selling their souls) to desperately migrate to the nations whose citizens say they wouldn't fight for their countries!

Think of this. Take some time, really think about it. Enough there to think for days, if not more.

 

[CriticalThought]

West has the blood of an entire civilization on its hand, so arguing over their morality is futile. Our problem is people like you who imo are the worst divisive hypocritical lot of all. Why would many like you reside in the west where Allah's sovereignty is not even recognized? A secular country is Dar ul Kufr for you, so willingly migrating to Dar ul Kufr and may be acquiring citizenship should make one an unbeliever. All the talk of praising a great caliph is just rhetoric then from such quarters.

Read this

https://defence.pk/threads/whatever.46703/page-4484#post-9089295

and we can discuss further on that thread.

 

[Khanate]

My post is offtopic but the above is one of the most sublimely ironical bits of data I have seen. Consider this:

In general, people who say they would be most willing to fight for their country are the ones who would probably sell their souls (and are selling their souls) to desperately migrate to the nations whose citizens say they wouldn't fight for their countries!

Think of this. Take some time, really think about it. Enough there to think for days, if not more.

A simple case of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Not sure why you see it as a complex riddle.

People who migrate are mostly economic migrants. They arrive in host countries trying to make a new start, set in a profession and often at a age where they don't have the luxury to explore their options. They start by fulfilling their immediate or basic needs and crawl up the needs ladder.

Successive generations who grow up in relative stability may choose military careers or become artists since they no longer have to deal with the anxiety of survival.

P.S. In Pakistan, we have a perception of threat from India so we are inclined to respond affirmatively to safety concerns.

 

[TMA]

Good for him. May Allah swt guide him to the right path.

Ameen

 

[SarthakGanguly]

This rule is not from a religion but rather a law in Pakistan that was created to protect all recognised religions from being insulted.

Of course it does not prevent people from abusing Dharma. We both know who it applies to.
Dharma cannot be insulted. It can be criticized. Which we welcome.