PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[Storm Force]

33 Thunders in 2 years is the going rate. = 16 JFT a year at best.

By the time PAF has 250 JFT i 2025 THE PLANE WILL BE obselete.

Thats why i stil think your delivery production will cease in 2017 at 150 in nos as you switch to FC20

36 HOURS FROM TODAY IAF will annouce the winner of the MMRCA . BY 2012 SUMMER THE FIRST SDQ will be in india

And by 2014 license production of MMRCA will begin.

By 2015 ALL 270 SU30MKI will have arrived and be carrying the super sukhoi upgrade

2018 the PAK FA will start to arrive fifth generation arrives in india

THATS PAK FA, mmrca ,, su30mki ,,, tejas LCA mk1/2

AND YOU GUYS WANT TO BUILD 250 JFT thunders

R U SURE ????? THIS IS A GOOD USE OF YOUR VERY SMALL FRACTION RESOURCES

 

[PakShaheen79]

33 Thunders in 2 years is the going rate. = 16 JFT a year at best.

By the time PAF has 250 JFT i 2025 THE PLANE WILL BE obselete.

Thats why i stil think your delivery production will cease in 2017 at 150 in nos as you switch to FC20

36 HOURS FROM TODAY IAF will annouce the winner of the MMRCA . BY 2012 SUMMER THE FIRST SDQ will be in india

And by 2014 license production of MMRCA will begin.

By 2015 ALL 270 SU30MKI will have arrived and be carrying the super sukhoi upgrade

2018 the PAK FA will start to arrive fifth generation arrives in india

THATS PAK FA, mmrca ,, su30mki ,,, tejas LCA mk1/2

AND YOU GUYS WANT TO BUILD 250 JFT thunders

R U SURE ????? THIS IS A GOOD USE OF YOUR VERY SMALL FRACTION RESOURCES

1. who told you that the production rate of JFT would be stay at same level? Didn't u follow PAC Nawabshah threat. I have mentioned this that now 4 out of 6 previous aircraft rebuild factories in PAC Kamra would be dedicated to JFT production from next year. So, PAF having 250 JFT till 2025 is an Indian wet dream. U remember there was a time when Indians on internet would make fun of FC-1/Super-7 program and now they are dreaming about PAF not taking delivery on time. Carry on! nothing is going to change.

2. Uh really. I would love to see the finalist of MMRCA. Good for India. But how on earth, First Squadron would become operational by Summer 2012 in IAF is beyond my comprehension. Aircraft integration in Air Force is not that simple even if you get them that quick.

3. Yup, SU-30MKI are really challenge but then again FC-20 is purposely built there.

4.PAK-FA ..... How many prototypes of PAK-FA (twin seat version of T-50) are flying right now?

5.That FC-20, F-16s (upgraded to block-50 standard), JFT block 1/2,

Yes, we do need 250 JFT to replace out aging fleet of F-7, Mirages etc.

This is excellent use ... don't worry about our resources that must not be YOUR problem. Just tell me which Indian military capability was not matched by Pakistan? So, a certain level of balance in South Asian skies would be preserved.

 

[Secur]

36 HOURS FROM TODAY IAF will annouce the winner of the MMRCA . BY 2012 SUMMER THE FIRST SDQ will be in india

And by 2014 license production of MMRCA will begin.

By 2015 ALL 270 SU30MKI will have arrived and be carrying the super sukhoi upgrade

2018 the PAK FA will start to arrive fifth generation arrives in india

THATS PAK FA, mmrca ,, su30mki ,,, tejas LCA mk1/2

How exactly will you have First Squadron of MRCA in India by 2012 ? Back it with credible sources ... Is Tejas even on the schedule ? Reports indicate that its final Operational Clearance has been delayed by almost a year to DEC 2013 ... Do you understand what does it mean ? and one thing more how do you expect AMCA to be completed on time when even Tejas is having difficulty take off ? and if by 2015 the JF 17 Thunder will be obsolete then what do you think will be the fate of the Tejas MK1 , Jaguars and the Migs that your airforce operates ? Nothing like Super Sukhoi exists at the moment and the PAK FA certainly isn't coming anywhere in 2018 ! and yes like India , we need JFT to replace all our 3rd Generation planes and we have started to do so ... We already have two squadrons of JFT flying ...

 

[Storm Force]

Pak Shaheen.

How Many FC20 ARE IN PAF SERVICE..? yes the answer is nil

How many SU30MKI in service ? YES 150

How many coming off production lines in india ? YES 17 per year

How many SU30MKI in service when PAF gets its first FC20 in 2014 ? yes you your right over 220 .

THE SU30MKI is in its 10th year of induction 2001 it entered service

Already the super sukhoi upgrade programme has started IAF's Sukhoi Su-30MKI Jets To Be Upgraded To Super Sukhois Level ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

I could post a dozen links on this upgrade programme.

HIGHLY ADVANCED VERY MATURE PROGRAMME FULLY INTERGRATED INTO THE INDIAN DEFENSE INFRASTRUCTURE $13 billion cost

Your JF17 programme is minature programme in contrast both in terms of COST, technology,, and nos you are a decade away grom getting where india is with the MKI with your thunder programme.

AS FOR FC20 its not even ready yet

SECUR

You mentioned

TEJAS well its happening at its own pace ITS ONE OF 4 different fighter programmes currently running for india

INDENGIOUS IAF TEJAS MK1 & 2
su30mki as above 2001-2016
MMRCA winner to be annouced friday 4th november a license production to begin 2014 . India Likely To Open MMRCA Bids On Nov. 4 | AVIATION WEEK
PAK FA FGFA with russia
There 2 flying the 3rd is doing taxi trials and the uindian version will fly 2013

THERE ARE 2 PAK FA FLYING AS WE SPEAK

 

[Storm Force]

For the record

PAF budget is around 10% of the indian air force budget for the next decade

ie INDIA will spend $100 billion on its air force alone between 2011-2021

Thanks to the fastest growing GDP in the G20 ( 20 LARGEST ECONOMYS IN THE WORLD)

 

[DARKY]

Have a read through these two threads:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...hin-cac-j-10b-j-20-also-pakistan-related.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ext-generation-fighter-program-confirmed.html

PS: All J-6 has been retired from active service since early 2000's.

You post says about 10 LSP aircrafts delivered by 2012... which would've to be tested by PLAAF pilots before final nod for bulk production... hence add another year for the actual deliveries to start... even on that note engine glitches on LSP and actuall production aircrafts remains to be seen.

And the whole thread rather became a battle ground to prove which jet would be exported to PAF J-10A or J-10B.... If it is J-10A then I don't see why there's a delay... (PAF don't trust Chinese engines perhaps..).
And If it is J-10B then again I don't see any reason why it would be delivered to PAF any time before 2014.... owing to the fact that PAF would itself start its bulk induction by 2014 only.

so they finally retire J-6 from service....
however they still have J-7, J-8, Q-5 etc numbering about 1000 which requires immediate replacements.

 

[DARKY]

1. who told you that the production rate of JFT would be stay at same level? Didn't u follow PAC Nawabshah threat. I have mentioned this that now 4 out of 6 previous aircraft rebuild factories in PAC Kamra would be dedicated to JFT production from next year. So, PAF having 250 JFT till 2025 is an Indian wet dream. U remember there was a time when Indians on internet would make fun of FC-1/Super-7 program and now they are dreaming about PAF not taking delivery on time. Carry on! nothing is going to change.

Inducting 250-300 JF-17 could well be the same mistake which IAF did by inducting about 700 Mig 21s during 70s and 80s....
What must be realized here is that the combat scenario in next 10 years would change drastically with mutirole fighters and availability of datalinks.

2. Uh really. I would love to see the finalist of MMRCA. Good for India. But how on earth, First Squadron would become operational by Summer 2012 in IAF is beyond my comprehension. Aircraft integration in Air Force is not that simple even if you get them that quick.

I don't think it would be that quick... however whenever that happens the shipment of 1st two squadrons would be made within 2 years after the signing of deal.... the tenders for final bid of the two selected fighters open on friday..

3. Yup, SU-30MKI are really challenge but then again FC-20 is purposely built there.

It would be interesting to see what kind of electronics the FC 20 comes up with against MKIs by 2014 the super MKIs would start its deliveries... so expect even better electronics from the MKI side as compared to now.

4.PAK-FA ..... How many prototypes of PAK-FA (twin seat version of T-50) are flying right now?

Two flying 3rd will fly by the end of the year or January nest year... 2015 Russian AF would recive its 1st batch and 2017 IAF would receive Its 1st batch... 1st FGFA to be delivered by 2020 with a completely new engine.

5.That FC-20, F-16s (upgraded to block-50 standard), JFT block 1/2,

Yes, we do need 250 JFT to replace out aging fleet of F-7, Mirages etc.

This is excellent use ... don't worry about our resources that must not be YOUR problem. Just tell me which Indian military capability was not matched by Pakistan? So, a certain level of balance in South Asian skies would be preserved.

Again it would be silly to do a quantitative replacement... when the need of the time is quality based replacement.

 

[Mav3rick]

You post says about 10 LSP aircrafts delivered by 2012... which would've to be tested by PLAAF pilots before final nod for bulk production... hence add another year for the actual deliveries to start... even on that note engine glitches on LSP and actuall production aircrafts remains to be seen.

And the whole thread rather became a battle ground to prove which jet would be exported to PAF J-10A or J-10B.... If it is J-10A then I don't see why there's a delay... (PAF don't trust Chinese engines perhaps..).
And If it is J-10B then again I don't see any reason why it would be delivered to PAF any time before 2014.... owing to the fact that PAF would itself start its bulk induction by 2014 only.

so they finally retire J-6 from service....
however they still have J-7, J-8, Q-5 etc numbering about 1000 which requires immediate replacements.

Thank God the Chinese do not have a habit of dreaming of what they would have in the next 10-25 years......infact they do not even tell you what they currently have and that is the best part. The whole world is surprised at the pace at which the Chinese have developed their own 5th gen fighter, and dude if the following is true:

"Globalsecurity.org states that China probably declined to participate in joint development and production of new fifth generation fighter with Russia given the belief that Russia stood to gain more from Chinese participation. Chinese leaders may have determined that their design was superior to the Russian PAK FA.[29] United States House Committee on Armed Services chairman Howard McKeon said on the J-20 "my understanding is that they built it on information that they received from Russia, from a Russian plane, that they were able to copy".[30] MiG spokeswoman Yelena Fyodorova has denied that any of the project 1.44 materials had been provided to China"

then we can assume that China will overtake Russia in jet fighter development faster then we expect.

 

[Mav3rick]

Again it would be silly to do a quantitative replacement... when the need of the time is quality based replacement.

Exactly and that is why we believe that our current F-16's are more then a match for your flagship SU-30MKI's.......JFT and the rest are more then enough for your other inventory, speaking strictly in a defensive strategy as we will not have to match IAF fighter-fighter as our SAM sites will also be a force multiplier in defence. Now since IAF continues to build more SU-30MKI's, we require more jets to counter that and we cannot rely on F-16's (due to the mood swings of our ally), we decided to find an alternate, perhaps even a better one, in J-10's.

By the time India fields PAK-FA, we will have our hands on J-XX.....no doubt there.

 

[karan.1970]

Exactly and that is why we believe that our current F-16's are more then a match for your flagship SU-30MKI's

How many of these F 16 actually do have BVR capability today??

 

[PakShaheen79]

SF,

It was you to come up with the idea that by 2012 first squadron of MMRCA will be there and by 2018 PAK-FA would be there. So, It is absolutely meaningless to argue the number of FC-20 in PAF right now.

BTW, you didn't answer my question that how you are going to integrate first MMRCA squadron by 2012?

I already admitted in my post that MKI is and would remain a challenge for PAF. So what is the point?

those are T-50 (Russian version) prototypes not PAK-FA prototype (Indian version) and in your next post you said it yourself that Indian version will fly in 2013. So, again it seems difficult to me inducting them anytime before 2020-2022.

 

[Mav3rick]

How many of these F 16 actually do have BVR capability today??

Not only F-16, even our Mirages have BVR capability and we have x number of 500 AIM-120C5's that were ordered in 2006

 

[karan.1970]

Not only F-16, even our Mirages have BVR capability and we have x number of 500 AIM-120C5's that were ordered in 2006

But isnt BVR capability only available on blk 52 onwards ? Or has there been an upgrade on earlier F 16s to provide that capability ?

 

[PakShaheen79]

Darky,

FYI, all modern fighters are multirole by design. So, is JFT. It was never a fighter or interceptor kind of machine from inception. Pakistan Air Force needed something for future in late 1990's as F-16s (a true multirole ) were denied to PAF. Just to give you an idea, please look the weapon systems being integrated with JFT.

Air-to-Air
Air-to-Ground
Anti-ship
Plus new EW suit .... what else there must be in a multirole fighter. So, it proves that replacement of F-7 and Mirage fleets with JFT is much more than a mere quantative replacement.

 

[Jungibaaz]

But isnt BVR capability only available on blk 52 onwards ? Or has there been an upgrade on earlier F 16s to provide that capability ?

If memory serves me correctly even Block 20 had some BVR capability with AN/APG-66(V)3 and AIM-7.