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PAF vs. IAF fighter fleet technology comparison

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Historically, it is the PAF that has conducted pre-emptive strikes over india in the first round of a battle, 65 is the best example.

The key word in your statement is preemptive. I am talking about conducting Ops in the middle of a war into enemy turf, the IAF is more equipped to handle such a thing.
 
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True, but only on the lower level and only as a figure. The fact is, with more than 200 x MKIs now and another 110 x Mig 29s and Mirage 2000s under upgrade, IAFs top tier is more capable than ever before.
The figure of the squadron numbers doesn't tell you which fighters are gone or which fighters are added. Simple example:

IAF recently had made an exercise at the Jodhpur airforce base, which normally is the home of Mig 27 and Mig 21 squadrons. These fighters however are old generation single role fighters (the 21s are Bisons with some modern upgrades, but still mainly interceptors). Which means the Mig 21s will be used for A2A and the 27s for A2G roles only. The Rafale is meant to replace the Bisons at this base, so on paper 1 x squadron will be replaced by 1 x new onw. Operationally, that however that is not the case, because the Rafale as a multi role fighter and by capability, will be able to take over the roles of both the roles of the Mig 21s and of the 27.
In fact, in a typical strike mission of the Mig 27, you would need a credible number of 21s in escort roles, which means a good number of fighters from both squadrons are needed to do a single mission. The Rafale however is capable of defending itself, even if in strike config, which means you need far less fighters to do the same mission, while the rest of the squadron can be diverted to other missions or roles.

So yes, IAF's squadron numbers on paper are reducing, no denial in that! But at the same time the capabilities in A2A and A2G are multiple times better than they were in the past, even with less fighters! Of course the Rafale is not selected or available yet, but IAF is not waiting for it and is already improving it's capabilities with the MKIs and the upgraded Mig 29s / Mirage 2000s, the Rafale will only put another type of fighter with a credible ammount of additional capabilities to IAF. The best example to see the difference is the Mig 29, which in the past were pure A2A fighters, which made the 3 x squads only useful for interception and escort roles. With the upgrade however, they get credible multi role capabilities and will be useful in CAS, SEAD and even maritime attack roles, which suddenly makes it to one of IAFs most versatile fighters.




That's not correct, since the 76 include the latest additions and puts it to a total of 126 x topline fighters, but that is roughly the number of IAF's Mig 29 and Mirage 2000s fleet, even if you split the MKI numbers in half for both border lines, PAF would need to counter another 100 x of them, which puts the topline numbers alone in a 1:2 disadvantage.



Only if we include the older gen Migs, the MKI has lower crash rates than PAFs F16s and apart from the last Mirage crash caused by pilot error, otherwise they have a very good reliability rate as well.



Which brings us the the next part where IAF has even a better edge over PAF at the moment, quality! The advantage of BARS over anything that PAF has so far is undeniable, but you raised the point of detecting radiation of radars. But how do you detect that, if most of PAF's fighters doesn't have RWRs? The F16s the US cleared for PAF are highly limited in technical capabilities, be it of EW sensors, the lack of IRST (which makes them dependable on an active radar) and even in dogfights they are dependent on older gen WVR missiles, which hardly can take advantage of the JHMCS.
The MKI or the Mig 29 on the other side have IRST, RWR, modern jammers and after the upgrade of the MKI also modern MAWS. Except of the IRST, the M2K will have the same advantages, which all of them will have HMS + an agile HOBS missile.
So the point you made with detecting the radars actually works the other way around, since most of IAF's fighters can detect PAFs fighter radars at long range and are not dependent on their own radar alone.



*you are confused, you confused "quality" with "quantity".

*How can you validate your claim of PAF f-16 being reduced in capability?

*ALQ-211 is the most advanced multiband jammer in this region, dont give your 8222B case because 8222b is vintage and has its limitations in power distribution being a small jammer. How many DRFM based jammers are operational in IAF and on which platforms? Sorbtsya on mki and 8222b on rest.

PAF currently lacks a HOBS missile, true that

IRST is still not able to replace a radar as an aircraft primary sensor, and will do so for many years, even decades.

HMDS is on both sides so a mute point again

Did i see you mentioning RWR?? Do you know which RWR is being used in jf-17 and what are its capabilities?

Lastly, after the inclusion of AWACS (2 types in PAF) on both sides, detecting x before y is more of a moot point.
 
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rectify me if am wrong, i heard that f16s supplied to you by US has an ally lock feature, basically you cant lock your missile to Israely, NATO and US forces. isnt this 1 of the reson pak is looking to other prospective seller.

Our F-16s will not treat all those as enemies who are US close allies, because IFF is built by US and it is not customize as per our needs, only Turkey have got this facility.
 
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prove your me wrong then, not by a biased source which hold zero value

you didn't provide any source for your earlier claim. it is a valid source. it has even minute details about the deal. kindly rebut it with credible evidence. it is quite evident that PAF is no MATCH of IAF
 
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If India would be so superior it would have taken Pakistani soil in 65 or 71... It didn't then when it was atleast 5 times bigger. Now these days... Let us go to Kargill. Indians could not even bomb soldiers on a mountain. They got help from Israeli. Still they lost some thanks to Anza. Even later. Two MKI fully armed went to the border. They retreated. PAF was at the worst when it comes to numbers or quality. And even later... If non BVR 30 years old f16's went up they did not come close to the border...

I try to find the logic behind it cause as all Indians here are posting... The Indians are bigger in numbers and quality of the planes. Yet they do not dare to do real combat... Anyway, My dad was in one of the biggest tank battles in the world and his tank was hit. I think if he tells me that Indian army is better (in the past) then who am I to say the opposite. Our senior officers were the worst in the world. Our soldiers offered everything but there was a reason why soldiers were allowed to kill seniors if they saw bad developments... We had idiots in the army. Just like we have idiots as politicians.
 
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Technologically & numerically IAF is superior to PAF, but at the end of the day it all comes to the man who is behind the machine, how he is trained what kind of strategy of fighting is adopted etc.
the last time PAF faced IAF is over 4 decades ago.. tail chase era is over ... This is BVR era.. and whole generation of pilots has changed. .. PAF have to face new generation IAF pilots...
 
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will the future buy of advanced jf-17 or fc-20 be able to match FGFA, daffault raffle and tejas mki 2 ?

FGFA is stealth and when it will be inducted PAF will be ready to induct its stealth option soon, PAF is only getting capability what it need to defend the country, and in future there will be mix of hi-mid JF-17s. some JF-17s will be on par of 4.5++ gen in future.
 
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If India would be so superior it would have taken Pakistani soil in 65 or 71... It didn't then when it was atleast 5 times bigger. Now these days... Let us go to Kargill. Indians could not even bomb soldiers on a mountain. They got help from Israeli. Still they lost some thanks to Anza. Even later. Two MKI fully armed went to the border. They retreated. PAF was at the worst when it comes to numbers or quality. And even later... If non BVR 30 years old f16's went up they did not come close to the border...

I try to find the logic behind it cause as all Indians here are posting... The Indians are bigger in numbers and quality of the planes. Yet they do not dare to do real combat... Anyway, My dad was in one of the biggest tank battles in the world and his tank was hit. I think if he tells me that Indian army is better (in the past) then who am I to say the opposite. Our senior officers were the worst in the world. Our soldiers offered everything but there was a reason why soldiers were allowed to kill seniors if they saw bad developments... We had idiots in the army. Just like we have idiots as politicians.
sirji, you PAF didn't even participated in the kargil... even they knew that pakistani soldeirs are involved in their.
and kindly tell us about the attcak over karachi in 1971.. what PAF had to say about it. @Oscar
 
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the last time PAF faced IAF is over 4 decades ago.. tail chase era is over ... This is BVR era.. and whole generation of pilots has changed. .. PAF have to face new generation IAF pilots...

Never underestimate your enemy and prepare as per threat, this is what PAF do.
 
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