PAF vs. IAF fighter fleet technology comparison

[majesticpankaj]

Ask UK and Saudi Typhoon pilots how they felt when PAF f-16s got them in WVR

yes..kindly educate us.. give us the credible link.. please don't quote alan warnes.

 

[Basel]

how ? some of them are more than 30 yrs old. this is just fanboyish thing to say that all of them will be upgraded to f-16 block 52. look at the IAF modernizing plan. we are getting super mki, mig 29 and mirage 2000 are on the way of up-gradation.

Structure life of F-16 can be upgraded further but M2Ks or Mig-29s don't have this facility available to extent which F-16s have, with upgrade 10 to 15 years structure life may be added, but it depends on US approval which PAF may get.

 

[Dazzler]

yes..kindly educate us.. give us the credible link.. please don't quote alan warnes.

alanwarnes is more credible than half of the world, the world reads him, Airforces trust him, invite him and share their opinions with him, can you do that??

if he is not credible to you, its not his fault.

 

[majesticpankaj]

alanwarnes is more credible than half of the world, the world reads him, Airforces trust him, invite him and share their opinions with him, can you do that??

if he is not credible to you, its not his fault.

don't get hyper..walk the talk .. provide the credible links.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

barring mirage III/V as with the current rate of crash, PAF f-16's & jf-17 & to an extent f-7's are its strong point, the 18 block 52's of the f-16 fleet is lethal punch point factor, but the fleet size is not satisfactory as PAF needs more f-16 block 52 or j-10 b/ c variant in large numbers, however there are no announcement of a medium weight fighter platform other then the f-16's
as for IAF barring the mig-21,the m2k are the most lethal punch factors of the IAF & are in quiet a good numbers plus as there is an announcement of Rafael being chosen, the addition of this is going be of a thundering advantage, therefore PAF need's more medium weight fighters & this is where the j-10 b/c comes to play, you just cant rely one medium weight fighter example f-16's as the jf-17 is a light weight fighter
IAF has an impressive good numbers of medium weight fighters, till PAF inducts more medium weight platforms it will be difficult to counter the IAF

 

[Edevelop]

Indian Air Force > Pakistan Air Force
Pakistan Army > Indian Army
Indian Navy > Pakistan Navy

 

[Basel]

the only country with fifth gen aircrafts seeing daylight or already inducted as per my knowedge are from france,england,US,india and russia. and neither of this country wud supply you with 5th gen. and if we talk about china. they are still working on there own 5th gen fighters. they havent been able to make it as of yet.

Other then US / NATO no one will be able to field 5th gen fighter to fully operational status till 2020, so don't worry.

 

[janon]

Historically, it is the PAF that has conducted pre-emptive strikes over india in the first round of a battle, 65 is the best example.

Historically. But 1965 was a different generation of air warfare. Today India has very dense and multilayered air defence, and can detect Pakistani planes as soon as they take off. I'm not saying Pak does not have an air defence network, but this is where geography comes into play. India's ground based, aerostat based and airborne radars can monitor all air traffic originating from Pak, due to the lack of geographic depth. But Pak cannot similarly monitor the entire Indian airspace, not even close. Besides, India has airbases far away from Pakistan's reach, like Assam or Pune, from where super long ranged aircrafts like the MKI can attack Pak.

In 1965 it was all about dogfighting after visual contact. That's not the situation today, technology has made it impossible for surprise attacks to happen, especially for Pak because of the gegraphical reality.

 

[Dazzler]

don't get hyper..walk the talk .. provide the credible links.

answer the question, simple

 

[Basel]

Even then only handful of fighter jet will be deployed by respective countries.

 

[sancho]

IAF sqdrns are dwindling = Fact

No major fighter induction since MKI = Fact

Rafale deal is still in limbo, atleast by year end = Fact

True, but only on the lower level and only as a figure. The fact is, with more than 200 x MKIs now and another 110 x Mig 29s and Mirage 2000s under upgrade, IAFs top tier is more capable than ever before.
The figure of the squadron numbers doesn't tell you which fighters are gone or which fighters are added. Simple example:

IAF recently had made an exercise at the Jodhpur airforce base, which normally is the home of Mig 27 and Mig 21 squadrons. These fighters however are old generation single role fighters (the 21s are Bisons with some modern upgrades, but still mainly interceptors). Which means the Mig 21s will be used for A2A and the 27s for A2G roles only. The Rafale is meant to replace the Bisons at this base, so on paper 1 x squadron will be replaced by 1 x new onw. Operationally, that however that is not the case, because the Rafale as a multi role fighter and by capability, will be able to take over the roles of both the roles of the Mig 21s and of the 27.
In fact, in a typical strike mission of the Mig 27, you would need a credible number of 21s in escort roles, which means a good number of fighters from both squadrons are needed to do a single mission. The Rafale however is capable of defending itself, even if in strike config, which means you need far less fighters to do the same mission, while the rest of the squadron can be diverted to other missions or roles.

So yes, IAF's squadron numbers on paper are reducing, no denial in that! But at the same time the capabilities in A2A and A2G are multiple times better than they were in the past, even with less fighters! Of course the Rafale is not selected or available yet, but IAF is not waiting for it and is already improving it's capabilities with the MKIs and the upgraded Mig 29s / Mirage 2000s, the Rafale will only put another type of fighter with a credible ammount of additional capabilities to IAF. The best example to see the difference is the Mig 29, which in the past were pure A2A fighters, which made the 3 x squads only useful for interception and escort roles. With the upgrade however, they get credible multi role capabilities and will be useful in CAS, SEAD and even maritime attack roles, which suddenly makes it to one of IAFs most versatile fighters.

PAF has 50 jf-17, 76 F-16 (18 blk 52+mlu)

That's not correct, since the 76 include the latest additions and puts it to a total of 126 x topline fighters, but that is roughly the number of IAF's Mig 29 and Mirage 2000s fleet, even if you split the MKI numbers in half for both border lines, PAF would need to counter another 100 x of them, which puts the topline numbers alone in a 1:2 disadvantage.

PAF crashes are still much less compared to IAF crashes, just check the crash thread for facts, IAF until recently crashing even MKIs and Mirage 2000s.

Only if we include the older gen Migs, the MKI has lower crash rates than PAFs F16s and apart from the last Mirage crash caused by pilot error, otherwise they have a very good reliability rate as well.

Indians are proud on BARS radar, without knowing that a PESA, not matter how good it is, is not an AESA. BARS is a huge unit, the amount of radiation it throws when operating on full, even on average power, it is detectable from a long range.

Which brings us the the next part where IAF has even a better edge over PAF at the moment, quality! The advantage of BARS over anything that PAF has so far is undeniable, but you raised the point of detecting radiation of radars. But how do you detect that, if most of PAF's fighters doesn't have RWRs? The F16s the US cleared for PAF are highly limited in technical capabilities, be it of EW sensors, the lack of IRST (which makes them dependable on an active radar) and even in dogfights they are dependent on older gen WVR missiles, which hardly can take advantage of the JHMCS.
The MKI or the Mig 29 on the other side have IRST, RWR, modern jammers and after the upgrade of the MKI also modern MAWS. Except of the IRST, the M2K will have the same advantages, which all of them will have HMS + an agile HOBS missile.
So the point you made with detecting the radars actually works the other way around, since most of IAF's fighters can detect PAFs fighter radars at long range and are not dependent on their own radar alone.

 

[Dazzler]

Current IAF fleet has NO qualitative edge over PAF. IF there is any, please share it here and enlighten all.

 

[Basel]

dont you think during war, its possible US sactions will affect your maintainance and spare parts? considering your current relationship with them?

Even without going to war PAF has been through this and now they know how to handle that situation, although sorties of F-16s may reduce, but PAF is preparing plan B for that and advance versions of JF-17s or FC-20 or J-1X will fill that gap.

 

[majesticpankaj]

answer the question, simple

what answer... provide the source or back out.

 

[janon]

Current IAF fleet has NO qualitative edge over PAF. IF there is any, please share it here and enlighten all.

Wow, really? Please check the total number of fourth gen aircrafts in each fleet, for starters.