PAF vs IAF, IN: Aircafts Inventory Situation

[Aesterix]

Note 1: All JF 17 BLK 1 are considered upgraded to BLK II standard. All Dual Seater Thunder versions are considered to be Block II-B.
Note 2: (-) Minus sign depicts written off.
Note 3: (==>) Arrow sign shows both written off and depleted current strength.



View attachment 780071
The ratio stands at ≈ 1.8:1 (639+41:378) in India's favor.



View attachment 780072
The ratio stands at ≈ 9:1 in India's favor.



View attachment 780069
The ratio stands at = 2:1 in Pakistan's favor.



View attachment 780070
The ratio stands at ≈ 2.7:1 in India's favor.


Esteemed members are invited to analyze the future projections realistically along with discussing different scenarios vis-a-vis India considering Pakistan has all aircrafts free to direct towards India but India has to retain some airpower for China/Eastern Border. Consider old versions of the mentioned fighters either retired or upgraded and included in the figures;also take average fighter jets availability of Pakistan to be 90% (340 aircrafts)
and of Indians to be 80% (578).[New ratio becomes 578:340 ~ 1.7]. Feel free to catagorize the fleet into their respective squadrons and position them accordingly into the war theatre.

Unsubstantial, trolling, flame-baiting, a couple of lines only posts are to be avoided please.


P.S*: Corrections made.

Great research, but all I know is that "Tea is, and will remain fantastic ".

 

[PradoTLC]

Note 1: All JF 17 BLK 1 are considered upgraded to BLK II standard. All Dual Seater Thunder versions are considered to be Block II-B.
Note 2: (-) Minus sign depicts written off.
Note 3: (==>) Arrow sign shows both written off and depleted current strength.



View attachment 780071
The ratio stands at ≈ 1.8:1 (639+41:378) in India's favor.



View attachment 780072
The ratio stands at ≈ 9:1 in India's favor.



View attachment 780069
The ratio stands at = 2:1 in Pakistan's favor.



View attachment 780070
The ratio stands at ≈ 2.7:1 in India's favor.


Esteemed members are invited to analyze the future projections realistically along with discussing different scenarios vis-a-vis India considering Pakistan has all aircrafts free to direct towards India but India has to retain some airpower for China/Eastern Border. Consider old versions of the mentioned fighters either retired or upgraded and included in the figures;also take average fighter jets availability of Pakistan to be 90% (340 aircrafts)
and of Indians to be 80% (578).[New ratio becomes 578:340 ~ 1.7]. Feel free to catagorize the fleet into their respective squadrons and position them accordingly into the war theatre.

Unsubstantial, trolling, flame-baiting, a couple of lines only posts are to be avoided please.


P.S*: Corrections made.

combat readiness is more a of better indicator.. i dont have recent stats but.. going by past info PAF has 75% combat readyness v 60% to 55% of IAF

 

[Signalian]

If Feb 19 skirmish is a YARDSTICK for you to judge an outcome of full blown war

Feb 2019 prompted the urgency as a necessity of Rafale for IAF.

 

[KaiserX]

I think I explained it pretty easily but how about this question ... in time of war, which enemy aircraft would the IAF be putting fighters over Kerala to safeguard its airspace there from?

As for helos we have 0 Z-10s and only 4 Hinds ... and no credible source of more orders yet. And my information on IAF and IA Apaches is very easy to find.

IAF transports wont have to come into Pakistan but move their soliders and equipment to the front line on short notice and move from one area of operation to another. Anyways since you know it all so I am sure everything will just be dandy

Who said anything about kerala? whether IAF stationed 3% of its equipment/jets or 5% they will still have to allocate resources to south india even if there is a none threat present. In my scenario I did the exact same for the PAF allocating 10% of its airforce to the western frontier even though afghanistan has no airforce and Iran has a none existent airforce which PAF can even handle with a squadron of JF17s.

I can further argue that that the PLAAF is actually a more of a threat to the IAF than the PAF, compared to the Iranian/Afghan air forces being a threat to the PAF which is almost a laughable matter and shows your intelligence at this point

Yet you are here thinking that the IAF will allocate ALL of its fighter towards Pakistan in wartime when India has a far bigger enemy in China that it will always allocated roughly 20-25% of forces towards. You think in wartime IAF will leave a land mass as big as south india or even west indian (bengal/assam) without any squadrons? then your an idiot and I cant reason with you any further because you know absolutely nothing about war gaming.

You keep assuming that somehow PAF is under the worst case scenario whether we have an air force threat on any border OTHER THAN THE EASTERN BORDER.

In reality our only enemy is India. 90% of our resources will always be allocated towards india. India cannot afford the same. The day they even dare allocate more than 70% of their resources the Chinese would pound them.

I am not saying that Pakistan should fully be reliant on China. It is actually quiet the opposite. Pakistani strategic planners at the end of the day have always leaned towards the Israeli strategy albeit under different tactical circumstances.

Reality is China hates Gangedesh right now. Gangedesh made a grave mistake with Pakistan/China for the last 70 years... Unlike the US, Japan, Australia, or the West, India actually shares a border with China. And that is where PAF/PA/PN will ALWAYS take advantage of, because if they didnt they would be fools like you.

Ill leave it at that.

 

[KaiserX]

48 cobras are old and nearing their end of life.

4 z10 i thought were there only for trials and given back afterwards?

30 t129, as much as i hate to say this, it aint haopening

25 mil mi35m. 25?i thought only 9.

Z10ME more or less coming yes.

Just tell alexa to shut up will you?

48 cobra with a great design= easily upgradable, even with COT technology. I doubt the PA will retire the cobras for the next 20 years. More than likely some kind of JUGGARD upgrade will be in the offering.

30 T129s i more than agree will not happen, in which case Z10Ms will be next in line. Benefit being Pakistan will be able to acquire more for less cost... 40? minimum its looking like

PA plan at the moment is to acquire MI35s in increments... reason being Russia is under severe sanctions and is unwilling to provide financing for a large order. Plan is to place small orders until PA has atleast 20-25 Mi35p

Id like to refer you to some reliable urdu PAF resources. With actual sources

People need to accept the following:

- PAF is getting 50 J10CE. Deal is signed
- PAF is getting 90 JF17B3s/JF17Bs. Currently in production
- PAF is getting 50 Wing long 2. Deal is signed
- PA is getting 20 Mi35s. 10 have been ordered so far.
- PA is going to get attack helis whether more MI35s or more Z10Ms or a combination of both
- PA is going to produce 50 ANKA drones. as well as induct 50 CH4B drones
- PA has 40+ Burraqs/Shahpurs 1s in service. Shahpur 2/Burraq 2 are in initial production. Total will approach 100.
- PA is going to produce 300 AK1A/AK2 and deal has been signed for 300 VT4s. 600 new tanks will be inducted in the next 4-5 years.


All these deals have been signed and will be fullfiled by 2024-2025.

 

[vishwambhar]

Feb 2019 prompted the urgency as a necessity of Rafale for IAF.

Wrong.... deal was signed in 2016.... nothing like urgency.....

 

[Signalian]

Wrong.... deal was signed in 2016.... nothing like urgency.....

After feb 2019

If India had Rafale jets, recent outcomes would have been different: PM Narendra Modi

Prime Minister Narendra Modi said the entire nation is saying that if India had Rafale jets today, the outcome of the recent incidents would have been something different.

www.indiatoday.in

What all could have happened if we had Rafale: PM Modi amid tensions with Pak

The Prime Minister's remarks come days after India and Pakistan were engaged in an aerial confrontation in Jammu and Kashmir, which saw both nuclear-armed countries downing a fighter jet each.

indianexpress.com

If we had Rafales, we’d have shot down 4-5 Pakistani jets after Balakot: IAF ex-chief Dhanoa

Former IAF chief B.S. Dhanoa says India will hit back harder if Pakistan tries a Pulwama-like attack again.

theprint.in

 

[vishwambhar]

They blunted your ground forces offensives, which ultimately stopped you from gaining victory. In the east it was 16vs150. In the west no such advantage exists. Learn the difference

My friend there is nothing special PAF achieved something in the class of USA or Israel airforces.... in 65 you launched offensive to capture Kashmir and kutch and ended up defending Lahore..... Indian army threateningly crossed the large landmass and was knocking the doors of Lahore.... you just managed to bomb some Forward IAF bases which is possible in full blown war due to close proximity..... if PAF had really done something great like Israel airforce Indian military wouldn't be able to cross upto Lahore to begin with.....

In 71 I would have appreciated PAF had they managed to inflict a damage on western India to the extent which would have forced India to negotiate on eastern flank.... neither PAF did anything great on western front which would have allowed PA to take large parts of Kashmir and bring India on the table for east Pak nor they could save east flank by bombing hell out of north west India which could force her to retreat from eastern theater..... PAF is a great professional force but not something you guys try to portray on PDF.....

After feb 2019

If India had Rafale jets, recent outcomes would have been different: PM Narendra Modi

Prime Minister Narendra Modi said the entire nation is saying that if India had Rafale jets today, the outcome of the recent incidents would have been something different.

www.indiatoday.in

What all could have happened if we had Rafale: PM Modi amid tensions with Pak

The Prime Minister's remarks come days after India and Pakistan were engaged in an aerial confrontation in Jammu and Kashmir, which saw both nuclear-armed countries downing a fighter jet each.

indianexpress.com

If we had Rafales, we’d have shot down 4-5 Pakistani jets after Balakot: IAF ex-chief Dhanoa

Former IAF chief B.S. Dhanoa says India will hit back harder if Pakistan tries a Pulwama-like attack again.

theprint.in

Modi was being criticized by congress over the deal..... it was a perfect opportunity for him to say if we had.....
Trust me....

 

[Signalian]

Modi was being criticized by congress over the deal..... it was a perfect opportunity for him to say if we had.....

IAF was caught with its pants down as the SU30MKI failed apart from the fact that IAF had failed Modi.

Trust me....

You give me all the reasons not to trust you since you speak contrary to what IAF officials, analysts and other Indian Govt statements mention. Even the international and neutral analysts wouldn't agree with your statements.

 

[Raja Porus]

Guderian writes:
"The combined Anglo-French forces in the West in May 1940 disposed of some 4,000 armored vehicles: the German Army at that time had 2,800, including
armored reconnaissance cars, and when the attack was launched only 2,500 of these were available for the operation. We thus faced superiority in numbers, to which was added the fact that the French tanks were superior to the German ones both in armor and in gun-caliber, though admittedly inferior in control facilities and in speed.*"

* And upon these factors germans built both their tactics as well as doctrine, just like PAF.

The ratio stands at ≈ 1.8:1 (639+41:378) in India's favor.

I like the -12 with the SU30.

 

[Tornado23]

My friend there is nothing special PAF achieved something in the class of USA or Israel airforces.... in 65 you launched offensive to capture Kashmir and kutch and ended up defending Lahore..... Indian army threateningly crossed the large landmass and was knocking the doors of Lahore.... you just managed to bomb some Forward IAF bases which is possible in full blown war due to close proximity..... if PAF had really done something great like Israel airforce Indian military wouldn't be able to cross upto Lahore to begin with.....

In 71 I would have appreciated PAF had they managed to inflict a damage on western India to the extent which would have forced India to negotiate on eastern flank.... neither PAF did anything great on western front which would have allowed PA to take large parts of Kashmir and bring India on the table for east Pak nor they could save east flank by bombing hell out of north west India which could force her to retreat from eastern theater..... PAF is a great professional force but not something you guys try to portray on PDF.....

The start of 1965 depends on your pov. Did it start when indian pusbed into rann of kutch, when pakistan launched operation Gibraltar or when india pushed past the IB?

What i do know is according to yout lt generals and own pilots, the paf denied them a victory in that war. Let gen called the lahore, sialkot and sindh assaults failures. One of your own pilots who was a vampire pilot described how they thought they were winning air superiority in the first day of the war only to realise 4 of their vampires were shot down by 2 f86 sabres.


What did your air force achieve? Killing their own men? Not even being able to put 1 runway out of action? Our airforce denied you so many runways in 65. Your ground offensives ground to a halt. Also defending lahore? No shit what will happen if you launch an attack at lahore. Thats like saying you started by attacking lahore but ended up trying to save khem karan.

1971. Our air force completely denied you air superiorty and again the victory. East pakistan was a given. We had 16 jets against 150 iaf jets. Still you had 19 jets shot down opposed to our 5. In west pakistan you had over 50-60 of your jets shot down opposex to 34 of ours. We strafed and bombed your ground forces again, we counter attacked in the chamb and took it, and completely atomised okha harbour.

Your airforce has done nothing similar except to get more of their jets shot down

Just tell alexa to shut up will you?

48 cobra with a great design= easily upgradable, even with COT technology. I doubt the PA will retire the cobras for the next 20 years. More than likely some kind of JUGGARD upgrade will be in the offering.

30 T129s i more than agree will not happen, in which case Z10Ms will be next in line. Benefit being Pakistan will be able to acquire more for less cost... 40? minimum its looking like

PA plan at the moment is to acquire MI35s in increments... reason being Russia is under severe sanctions and is unwilling to provide financing for a large order. Plan is to place small orders until PA has atleast 20-25 Mi35p

Id like to refer you to some reliable urdu PAF resources. With actual sources

People need to accept the following:

- PAF is getting 50 J10CE. Deal is signed
- PAF is getting 90 JF17B3s/JF17Bs. Currently in production
- PAF is getting 50 Wing long 2. Deal is signed
- PA is getting 20 Mi35s. 10 have been ordered so far.
- PA is going to get attack helis whether more MI35s or more Z10Ms or a combination of both
- PA is going to produce 50 ANKA drones. as well as induct 50 CH4B drones
- PA has 40+ Burraqs/Shahpurs 1s in service. Shahpur 2/Burraq 2 are in initial production. Total will approach 100.
- PA is going to produce 300 AK1A/AK2 and deal has been signed for 300 VT4s. 600 new tanks will be inducted in the next 4-5 years.


All these deals have been signed and will be fullfiled by 2024-2025.

Alexa? Ayo what?

48 cobras are upgraded with CNITE are they not? Also their airframes are nearing the end of their life. Good helis but old now.

Mil mi35m i know we are getting more buy idk about 25.

Z10ME gonna be good. Id say around 40-45 helis to replace the cobras.

 

[Signalian]

Pakistan is bound to lose a protracted war. Once a full blown conflict begins, space for conventional warfare is limited to maximum two weeks. PAF can hold the airspace until then and if it suffers many losses, it will bring out F-7Ps and F-7PGs from reserves as point interceptor. Thunders are best used as supplementary fighter aircrafts with F-16s, and Mirages doing the heavy work in their respective domain. Ofcourse, JF-17 is a capable aircraft and if gotten in a position, will fare good, but IMO, PAF has developed tactics in such a way where the right composition of mix assets colluding with AEW&Cs off-set the advantages of IAF.

JF 17 being a light multi-role fighter can only partially fill the gap left from potential losses of Mirages and F-16s. We can't go for deep strikes or take on Air Superiority Su-30MKIs effectively. I believe this is why, Pakistan with its limited resources chose to bring in J10C/P ( I presume) to compensate for already disadvantaged situation. There is a gap of both numbers and capability. PAF just has to cover the overland airspace for two weeks for which it shall be able to, while in the event of tactical or ballistic missile exhanges, PAF will have more concentration to provide maritime coverage.

P.S: I am not the best to narrate the contingencies or probable scenarios. You in fact can provide better opinion especially in relation to EW which will decide the next conflict, if it hasn't already done in the most recent one. PAF has advantage in net-centric capability bu for how long? IAF can easily bridge its gaps within 2-3 years of timeframe, especially with the change in command structure (theatres) etc. It already has less than sanctioned strength which although is con for them but it also makes it easier to manage and revitalize their potential with for focus and resources.

Long range deep strike, that is the domain of cruise and ballistic missiles.

As war progresses, the spares for Mirages and F-16s will diminish. The situation on the first day of war will be very different on the 10th day of war for PAF and IAF. JFT will be the only aircraft for which spares and other weaponry wouldn't get hindered. As F-16 and Mirage sorties will reduce after a week or so, most of the burden will fall on JFT squadrons for all kinds of roles.

EW technology is available to both PAF and IAF, how effectively they use it will decide the outcome of air operations.

 

[KaiserX]

Long range deep strike, that is the domain of cruise and ballistic missiles.

As war progresses, the spares for Mirages and F-16s will diminish. The situation on the first day of war will be very different on the 10th day of war for PAF and IAF. JFT will be the only aircraft for which spares and other weaponry wouldn't get hindered. As F-16 and Mirage sorties will reduce after a week or so, most of the burden will fall on JFT squadrons for all kinds of roles.

EW technology is available to both PAF and IAF, how effectively they use it will decide the outcome of air operations.

spares unavailable on the 10th day of the war? where does this logic come from? sources/data?

 

[Signalian]

spares unavailable on the 10th day of the war? where does this logic come from? sources/data?

where did i say that ? i said, " The situation on the first day of war will be very different on the 10th day of war for PAF and IAF. "

 

[KaiserX]

where did i say that ? i said, " The situation on the first day of war will be very different on the 10th day of war for PAF and IAF. "

PAF F16s/JF17s/Mirages/F7ps are far far less maintenance heavy than the IAF fighters. Most of the IAFs fleet are double engined fighters.

PAC has been producing spares for the mirages/F7s in house for over 4 decades now. F16s spare are abundant, old designs, produced in Turkey and at this point would not be surprised if PAC produced minor yet important spares for the F16s. JF17s spares are also produced in house at Kamra.

IAF with so many different fighters/components/designs will have a far tougher problem.