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PAF should've invested more on J-10s rather than JF-17s

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Oscar,

I think that there is too much hype about the engine power---. I personally think that there is no such issue. If engine power was an issue---then in the air shows---at take off---the pilot would have immediately pulled the wheels in to reduce drag---but if you see the videos---the pilot intentionally let the wheels hang out for too long---.

Hanging wheels cause drag--and thus hinder in acceleration---actually they are used to slow down the aircraft---I will let you guys speculate now.
 
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Nice to see MK coming out and defending Thunders :yahoo:


Oscar,

I think that there is too much hype about the engine power---. I personally think that there is no such issue. If engine power was an issue---then in the air shows---at take off---the pilot would have immediately pulled the wheels in to reduce drag---but if you see the videos---the pilot intentionally let the wheels hang out for too long---.

Hanging wheels cause drag--and thus hinder in acceleration---actually they are used to slow down the aircraft---I will let you guys speculate now.
 
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Oscar,

I think that there is too much hype about the engine power---. I personally think that there is no such issue. If engine power was an issue---then in the air shows---at take off---the pilot would have immediately pulled the wheels in to reduce drag---but if you see the videos---the pilot intentionally let the wheels hang out for too long---.

Hanging wheels cause drag--and thus hinder in acceleration---actually they are used to slow down the aircraft---I will let you guys speculate now.

Recently I have come to share that line of thought.

is it possible PAF = clever ?
 
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Pakistan should never go for J-10 in future

save the money and better invest it in j-31 in 2020
 
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Oscar,

I think that there is too much hype about the engine power---. I personally think that there is no such issue. If engine power was an issue---then in the air shows---at take off---the pilot would have immediately pulled the wheels in to reduce drag---but if you see the videos---the pilot intentionally let the wheels hang out for too long---.

Hanging wheels cause drag--and thus hinder in acceleration---actually they are used to slow down the aircraft---I will let you guys speculate now.

Agreed, It meets the requirements.. but is still not something that will GET THE BEST out of that airframe.
 
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well you partly answer your own questions. You said "certain people" are saying that does not necessarily means its true. I suggest you check the specifications yourself..they are widely available on the net. Also in what sense are you classifying the JF-17 to be 70% of an F-16? in maneuverability? avionics and radar? weapons? in what sense? For instance if PAF can get hold of the AESA radar for the next block than F-16 doesn't have it and neither can PAF upgrade it with an AESA.



The good thing about JF-17 is that since the airframe is decoupled from the avionics, you can make it as simple as you want or as advanced as you like. And I think PAF is going to have a combination of low-tech and hi-tech JF-17s.

The advantages of investing in JF-17 is
1. Its 'our' plane, which means we are in control of it. No sanctions, no issues

2. Its a huge experience for us to be involved in the design of an aircraft from start to finish and know every technical detail about aircraft designing. Its better to learn how to fish than buy it off the market.

3. Its cost effective. Remember, we arent building the next eurofighter but replacing our again F-7s with something more powerful yet cost effective. J10s are expensive to be inducted in such large numbers.

4. Since we will be manufacturing most of the JF-17s here, spare parts , maintenance, up gradation, having the infrastructure to be able to think of doing something in future ourselves, or upgrading other planes based on this experience, etc all these will be handy.

5. We might be able to, and currently have to some extent, export it and earn some profit from it. It also enhances our industrial base, manpower, jobs, etc.







because J10 is NOT our product. We are already getting an upgraded version of J10 which you can think of as the next block.


SU-30 is a huge plane so naturally its slow and sluggish. Its (SU-30s) main strength is not dog-fighting but its radar and BVR. Also Su-30 is more maintenance intensive, more costly to operate than a J10. People tend to underestimate these little things but they play quite a role.

Let the official statement about our J10s (FC-20) come out and we will know exactly whats the package.



I am not an expert on Mirages but definitely the Mirage2000 would be better than MirageIIIs. The ROSE upgrades did improve that MirageIIIs but still.

Also the MirageIII is an interceptor whereas the Mirage2000 is a multirole fighter. The JF-17 is more comparable to the Mirage2000 if not better.




says who??
where did you learn that from?



dude, there is no 5th gen aircraft on offer to us, not even an F-18 super hornet which aint a 5th gen aircraft. Even if it were, we cannot possible afford the F-22 raptor which is $100+ million per aircraft.



Remember, the PAF doctrine is NOT to match IAF in equal numbers. Our airforce is for deterence of such things like the surgical strikes being talked about. And for that, the expected fleet is good enough. I case of a full-fledged war we are counting on our nuclear and missile deterrence and not PAF. That detterance is good enough to gurantee us that PAF will never be brought to exhaustion in case of a war.
in your answer, you answered some of questions, so it means that our core area would be based on nukes, and as we have lower threshold for nukes, so there is low chance of PAF being exhausted, is that what u mean :)
 
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Meanbird

THIS STATEMENT IS HILLARIOUS :woot:
SU-30 is a huge plane so naturally its slow and sluggish. Its (SU-30s) main strength is not dog-fighting but its radar and BVR. Also Su-30 is more maintenance intensive, more costly to operate than a J10. People tend to underestimate these little things but they play quite a role.



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-10s-rather-than-jf-17s-21.html#ixzz2OTxOsIfe

su30 mki su30 has twin egines giving twr 20% greater than the JFT

TVC engines means these babies TURN ON A SIX PENCE AND HAS AOA (ANGLES OF ATTACK ) THAT non TVC fighters cant physicaly perform.

to put in plain ENGLISH A TVC fighter is the most agile in the world by NATURE OF ITS ENGINE..

in a DOG FIGHT su30mki is KING OVERR 99% OF FIGHTERS in service

HOW EVER SU30MKI has weaknesses in RCS which means a GOOD BVR FIGHTER LIKE A Typhoon or rafale wil see first and shoot first. IN A CLOSE UP KNIFE FIGHT SU30MKI is dam dangerous.

your remark was funny
 
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Coming back to JF17 it biggest weakness is its SMALL SIZE over both F16 & J10.

SMALL SIZE means LESS space for bigger more powerful radar & jammers.

smaller engines and lower TWR.

SMALL ALSO MEANS fewer weapons carried and much lower FUEL

F16 & J10 Would give PAF 30% extra TWR , more weapons bigger radars. THESE offer a true multi role capability.

JF17 cheap and easy to maintain BUT VERY MUCH A POINT DEFENSE fighter . IDEAL for local air defense bit not carrying out the tasks a F16/52 or a potential J10B could carry out.

Whist you can add ASESA radar and improve avionics or increse compsites in building THUNDER the PAF are limited to SIZE of the airframe .

in other words IT will remain a small agile MIG21 type fighter of the 21ST CENTURY ....
 
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Wow, this thread is a gold mine of information. Amazing stuff.
 
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Coming back to JF17 it biggest weakness is its SMALL SIZE over both F16 & J10.

SMALL SIZE means LESS space for bigger more powerful radar & jammers.

smaller engines and lower TWR.

SMALL ALSO MEANS fewer weapons carried and much lower FUEL

F16 & J10 Would give PAF 30% extra TWR , more weapons bigger radars. THESE offer a true multi role capability.

JF17 cheap and easy to maintain BUT VERY MUCH A POINT DEFENSE fighter . IDEAL for local air defense bit not carrying out the tasks a F16/52 or a potential J10B could carry out.

Whist you can add ASESA radar and improve avionics or increse compsites in building THUNDER the PAF are limited to SIZE of the airframe .

in other words IT will remain a small agile MIG21 type fighter of the 21ST CENTURY ....

Not really that pathetic, with 3 drop that it just needs one refueling and can flew all the to UK from pakistan. That is far better than Mi-21.

Current JF-17 still has a decent payload, with PGM available. It need not carry so many weapon loads to carry out strike mission. If you really think size is a massive problem. Tejas will be even more disadvantage given its even smaller size.
 
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Not really that pathetic, with 3 drop that it just needs one refueling and can flew all the to UK from pakistan. That is far better than Mi-21.

Current JF-17 still has a decent payload, with PGM available. It need not carry so many weapon loads to carry out strike mission. If you really think size is a massive problem. Tejas will be even more disadvantage given its even smaller size.

Hahahaha all drop tank. No payload. What a way to present. You mean Jf-17 will come and land close to my city kolkata in war. We will greet the fighter then will fuel up it's tank and drop tank, to let it go to Pakistan. Wow:cheesy::cheesy:

Tejas is meant for point defence itself. And we never compare it with Su 30mki or never claim it will go and bomb entire Pakistan. Adding to that, it can carry more payload than JF-17.
 
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Every country thinking for next generation fighter planes. now these days, jf17 or Tejas can be good for interceptor role in country but if u talking about go and hit targets in enemy country. I think u asking to much from these fighters.

Pakistan should invest on j31 fighters just like India doing with AMCA and Sukhoi/HAL FGFA. India should have Sukhoi/HAL FGFA fighters before and AMCA (before 2025).. I talking maximum time included delays..

So, pakistan should focus on next 10 years because war will not going to happened in coming years . India still has quality advantage but what will happen after 2020. I think that time India will have very mush advantage over Pakistan. Think for future otherwise for comparison we can't even think........

Exam:- After 10 years, you still compare Sukhoi/HAL FGFA vs F 16 or Sukhoi/HAL FGFA vs j10.
 
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