PAF should've invested more on J-10s rather than JF-17s

[mjnaushad]

Yup, they are not! Price of a Su-30 is not 3 billion with ToT. How much does a Su-30MKI really cost?


This reminds me of the PM which a friend sent to me a few months ago. This happened in another forum.
"<snip> personal stuff</snip>
also i had one crazy dream. that americans wud agree to take back all of their f-16 and give the appropriate money and paf will buy jft with that money. it would be so awesum if it really happened. paf will only have junk fighters hahaha"

^May not reflect the feeling of every Indian, but the feeling is there. Also being a PM it is more truthful than what is being said in public.

And Reported.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I think people are confusing the issue when they start comparing JF17 and J10. PAF has opted to make JF 17 as their mainstay fighter because of the ECONOMICS of this option. Why did PLAAF not opt for JF17 ? Well because they don't have the same Economic constraints of the PAF. It is really as simple as that.

Also, please understand that even though J10 is better than JF17, the advantage is shrinking between J10B and JF17-blk2 as JF17-blk2 gets AESA Radar. Our resources at PAF dictate that we continue with JF17 as the primary platform for our Air Force and add few Squadrons of F16-C and J10B to keep qualitative edge. Basically JF17 are replacing our F7's inventory which are becoming obsolete.

Why did'nt we just get 300 J10b instead of JF17 ? We cannot afford the price tag. It is as simple as that.

 

[abdulbarijan]

My Former posts are all consistent all the way back from 2009 Yes blame is on PAF, Rafale is disaster in terms of price BUT for the air force that has nothing else left and the last card to play Rafale is (correction was) one of those options that is Technology and superiority...for India Rafale is just another good buy they could have chosen F-18s or Typhoons.

Maybe you did not read it, I referred J-10B for third world not mentioning Pakistan here you are fixed up, Yes French had trouble in mrca regarding marketing it all ended well due to Politics, now should I copy-paste my posts or should you go back re-post my other posts regarding Rafale all the way back from 2009. Now all my from various Threads are consistent you can go back as far as 2009.

-Actually the post I quoted before was from "04-04-2010 01:58 AM"


-If rafale is a disaster in terms of price so how can you defend the acquisition of such a "disaster" by a cost constrained PAF....

or would you like another embargo which in turn will increase your critical posts by saying
"PAF learned nothing from the lost decade"

Now instead of picking on posts, pray tell what is your answer to my earlier post on page 10, obviously nada nil.

There has been no satisfactory answer to the question IF JF-17 BLK III is considered ultimate with many changes than what is the purpose of J-10B because the ultimate variant is going to be costly you want to keep up with technology and superiority in today's age you will spend. You people do your homework well before jumping on others.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-defence-industry/115500-comparison-b-w-j-10b-dassault-rafale-whos-better-fighter-aircraft.html#post1870516

Nope, discussion is IF JF-17 BLK III (turned into High End) is going to be ultimate with everything that J-10B will have what is the purpose to procure 150 J-10Bs obviously rumors and certain men over here are saying JF-17 BLK III will be alot different in dimensions-size to BLK I/II. Non has satisfactory answer to the inquiry. Second at one point PAF says no Funds on the other hand procurement of J-10Bs and investment in BLK III JF-17.

"Jab kabooter billi ko dekh kar aankhain band kar le...."

Even though JF-17 was always meant as a lower end , medium tech fighter lets assume it does become in higher ends...but even those have their limitations dont they??
For JF-17 the limitation is range and payload which is basically the limitation of most light weight class fighters out there..

So even with the 5th generation avionics and all rumors.. PAF will still have to have a fighter with a bigger payload and deep strike capability ... and thats where J-10 comes in..

 

[45'22']

post number 167 is a sensible post

 

[Safriz]

i love the way people are downplaying jf-17 almost to the level of a paper plane.
how many airforces of the world have designed and fly their oen fighter jet?
you can count them on your fingers..
thanks to jf-17 pakistan is one of them.
Grippen or Rafale are embargo prone...jf-17 isnt....and thats a massive difference.

 

[Mo12]

i love the way people are downplaying jf-17 almost to the level of a paper plane.
how many airforces of the world have designed and fly their oen fighter jet?
you can count them on your fingers..
thanks to jf-17 pakistan is one of them.
Grippen or Rafale are embargo prone...jf-17 isnt....and thats a massive difference.

You didnt make it, all the planes and most of the design was made in China.

Even though it was made in China, China refuses to deploy these planes.

 

[Jango]

You didnt make it, all the planes and most of the design was made in China.

Even though it was made in China, China refuses to deploy these planes.

Read about a million posts in hundreds of pages. Then come here and say this.

 

[Agent Vinod]

The credibility of JF-17 prove by the fact that china don't want to have in her arsenal when it has 100s of 'obsolete' fleet of soviet planes.

 

[Safriz]

You didnt make it, all the planes and most of the design was made in China.

Even though it was made in China, China refuses to deploy these planes.

china is not using it because it was made for PAF requirements and as an export...not for domestic use...
PAF has been involved in tbe planes R&D...Since it was called super 7 both in spending money and desighning components..
The matter has been discussed so many times that its become boring.

 

[Beast]

The credibility of JF-17 prove by the fact that china don't want to have in her arsenal when it has 100s of 'obsolete' fleet of soviet planes.

There is no Soviet plane currently in China air fleet.

 

[SBD-3]

There is no Soviet plane currently in China air fleet.

Su-30 MKK MKKII and SU-27/J-11 variants are still in service

 

[SBD-3]

The credibility of JF-17 prove by the fact that china don't want to have in her arsenal when it has 100s of 'obsolete' fleet of soviet planes.

JFT has performed itself in at least 4 international airshows. Even the commentators were impressed by its maneuverability. I dont know why do you guys behave like this, even with this "junk fighter" if there is any development being leaked, there are more "guests" and Indians storming the thread than Pakistanis. JFT's development is an inspiring story. Its for people like you and many others, we have created a JF information pool. Being naive makes sense, but all out ignorance is not tolerable.

 

[shuntmaster]

china is not using it because it was made for PAF requirements and as an export...not for domestic use...
PAF has been involved in tbe planes R&D...Since it was called super 7 both in spending money and desighning components..
The matter has been discussed so many times that its become boring.

What are the PAF requirement so unique that it becomes useless for PLAAF, but of very high usefulness and value to PAF?
If cost was the only factor, then does it make any sense for PLAAF to go for a more expensive plane for almost the same capabilities of JF17, even though JF17 is designed, developed and manufactured in China?

 

[SQ8]

The credibility of JF-17 prove by the fact that china don't want to have in her arsenal when it has 100s of 'obsolete' fleet of soviet planes.

If your flawed small thinking is followed. then the Rafale must have been the crappiest aircraft to date.. after being in the market all this time.. and never having been bought by anybody till the IAF chose it.
Please think before you post.. average grey matter is usually more than a Kg in human beings.

 

[ziaulislam]

imagine PAF had gone for 64 rafale at a price of 10 billion dollars..(ignoring the fact that they could get 100 vipers for that money) what would had happened?

india would have immediately responded with 100 typhoon the next day?

the reason why they took so much time on MRCA was that they were not under pressure from PAF.

this which exactly what happened in 80s. we ordered for f-16s and they responded immediately with mirage2000 and mig29 at twice number we got!

the same goes for the gripen C,
second the gripen c wasnt offering anything atleast in terms of aerodynamics (payload,engine,range) than what thunder was offering

so logic to buy rafale doesnt apply
1. it was very expensive than either viper/j-10b
2. it wouldnt have given the desisive advantage we thought we may get. why because cold war was over and india had an open market for arms now