PAF shoot down IAF SU-30 MKI l News & Discussion
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Riz
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We should definitely try to get few dozen J10c...I saw some tiny voice in this thread said China is not supporting Pakistan openly. China usually act more and talk less. The following is from China Military, whether it was mean to support PAF or not, it is up to each individual. The larger intention of China is de-escalation of conflict. The Chinese Air Force acted on for the worst.
Ground crews perform pre-flight checks on a J-10A fighter jet prior to a training exercise at an airfield in southwest China on Feb. 27, 2019. The J-10A fighter jet is attached to an aviation brigade of the air force under the PLA Southern Theater Command which has sent several airplanes to southwest China to conduct training on regional air defense combat and covering assault operations, in a bid to hone the troops' all-weather combat capability. (eng.Chinmil.com.cn /Photo by Wei Jinxin)
GumNaam
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The timing and place of this "exercise" is indeed a very a strong indication...I saw some tiny voice in this thread said China is not supporting Pakistan openly. China usually act more and talk less. The following is from China Military, whether it was mean to support PAF or not, it is up to each individual's opinion. The larger intention of China is de-escalation of conflict. The Chinese Air Force acted on for the worst.
Note: South West China borders Pakistan, India and Afghanistan.
Ground crews perform pre-flight checks on a J-10A fighter jet prior to a training exercise at an airfield in southwest China on Feb. 27, 2019. The J-10A fighter jet is attached to an aviation brigade of the air force under the PLA Southern Theater Command which has sent several airplanes to southwest China to conduct training on regional air defense combat and covering assault operations, in a bid to hone the troops' all-weather combat capability. (eng.Chinmil.com.cn /Photo by Wei Jinxin)
Bay yar you've seen the language these turd monkeys used in the past over every good gesture Pakistan has ever made to them. ghaleez say ghaleez zabaan istimaal ki in kuttoan nay, hamaray masoon nihattay sherioan ki qatal pay khushi bhangray daalain hain in payn day takoan nay! Why the hell should I show them any mercy? ghatiya, nasli jhoota, neech aur bayghairat dushman mila hay humay! I'm gonna punish them, I'm gonna humiliate them, I'm gonna insult them, I'm gonna rub the salt in their every bleeding wound and laugh at them while rubbing it in and then punch them hard straight in the heart skipping a few beats while crushing their groins with my boots. In ko rulaoon ga may, in ko takleef pohnchay gi may pohnchaoon ga inko takleef!
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Jugger
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Yup you are right.
But IA, IAF and IN played their part extremely well during that war.
POPEYE-Sailor
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Guys why PAF is not giving official statement about conflict, what aircraft they destroyed by using which aircraft ?
GumNaam
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even then india lost two fighters and numerous choppers while we lost none.
Issue on SU-30 will not be cleared anytime soon, so we shouldn't waste time on the trolls. There are two ways PAF can provide proof to the Indians. Both proofs will without doubt escalate the situation as will cause uproar in India so Im very sure PM Imran Khan won't allow. Ive come to know that Pakistan is deliberately holding back other engagement details to prevent war mongers, which would be un responsible of me to share as well, I believe same case here. Also Pakistani people are not pressuring the government on this so no urgency.
1. Show the pilots that DG ISPR initially claimed admitted to CMH for injuries. Likely the pilots have passed away and we have their bodies, as initial reports were for very injured. Indians will claim Pakistani mob killed it's own pilot but that is very absurd, if crowds were so uncontrollable WC Abhi would have been killed too. There is no precedent of uncontrollable mobs here, people would have first probed to ascertain the down pilots origin. Plus if you watch the interviews people were smart enough to make him think he landed inside Indian territory so he could be apprehended. Seeing how Pakistan is doing whatever it can to not escalate the situation this is a big no no at the moment.
2. Show HUD and communications footage of the engagement. This seems unlikely at the moment as it will risk leakage of tactics which we might need to employ again. Maybe after some months or years they will be revealed.
However if India has similar proof at it's end it would have shared already as it is what it's public needs to regain lost morale. And nothing keeping them from not sharing.
So talking on SU-30MKI or XXX is just a waste of time at the moment.
Now I have some points on the aircraft that is confirmed to be downed. Need your comments.
1. Why did InAF deploy the Mig-21 Bison in such a hot zone. It is a good interceptor but when you know you are in a conflict situation you should plan and deploy your most capable CAP assets eg SU-30s, Mig-29s etc. Surely InAF planners are not idiots. Even PAF withdrew F-7PGs and re allocated fighters so JF-17s and F-16s are more likely to see action. The Aim-120 Indians are parading is probably from when PAF engaged InAF 3 times the day before.
2. Where was WC Abhi's wing man. Should have been on a Mig-21 as well. He should have avenged his wing man as long as he had fuel and missiles.
3. Why was WC Abhi, a SU-30 pilot flying a Mig-21. We know PAF moves its most experienced pilots from F-16s to JF-17s, since they have better weapon package options but move from a SU-30 to Mig-21 is a downgrade or a punishment and a waste since InAF does have a pilot to aircraft ratio shortness.
Possible reason, just an Idea which I am throwing around. WC Abhi is a SU-30 pilot but on that day because of availability his SU-30 was not cleared to fly so he being also certified for Mig-21 took off for CAP on a Mig-21 instead while his wingmen were on their SU-30. His wingman being a SU-30 also got shot down so he didnt have backup to avenge him. By the time InAF hot scrambles were available PAF was out of the area.
What are your takes on this theory.
1. Show the pilots that DG ISPR initially claimed admitted to CMH for injuries. Likely the pilots have passed away and we have their bodies, as initial reports were for very injured. Indians will claim Pakistani mob killed it's own pilot but that is very absurd, if crowds were so uncontrollable WC Abhi would have been killed too. There is no precedent of uncontrollable mobs here, people would have first probed to ascertain the down pilots origin. Plus if you watch the interviews people were smart enough to make him think he landed inside Indian territory so he could be apprehended. Seeing how Pakistan is doing whatever it can to not escalate the situation this is a big no no at the moment.
2. Show HUD and communications footage of the engagement. This seems unlikely at the moment as it will risk leakage of tactics which we might need to employ again. Maybe after some months or years they will be revealed.
However if India has similar proof at it's end it would have shared already as it is what it's public needs to regain lost morale. And nothing keeping them from not sharing.
So talking on SU-30MKI or XXX is just a waste of time at the moment.
Now I have some points on the aircraft that is confirmed to be downed. Need your comments.
1. Why did InAF deploy the Mig-21 Bison in such a hot zone. It is a good interceptor but when you know you are in a conflict situation you should plan and deploy your most capable CAP assets eg SU-30s, Mig-29s etc. Surely InAF planners are not idiots. Even PAF withdrew F-7PGs and re allocated fighters so JF-17s and F-16s are more likely to see action. The Aim-120 Indians are parading is probably from when PAF engaged InAF 3 times the day before.
2. Where was WC Abhi's wing man. Should have been on a Mig-21 as well. He should have avenged his wing man as long as he had fuel and missiles.
3. Why was WC Abhi, a SU-30 pilot flying a Mig-21. We know PAF moves its most experienced pilots from F-16s to JF-17s, since they have better weapon package options but move from a SU-30 to Mig-21 is a downgrade or a punishment and a waste since InAF does have a pilot to aircraft ratio shortness.
Possible reason, just an Idea which I am throwing around. WC Abhi is a SU-30 pilot but on that day because of availability his SU-30 was not cleared to fly so he being also certified for Mig-21 took off for CAP on a Mig-21 instead while his wingmen were on their SU-30. His wingman being a SU-30 also got shot down so he didnt have backup to avenge him. By the time InAF hot scrambles were available PAF was out of the area.
What are your takes on this theory.
Cornered Tiger
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Trying to draw conclusions from the following facts:
1- WC Abhinandan was arrested from Bhimber Valley.
2- Wreckage of Mig-21 Bison from Samhani Sector (approx 20 Km from Bhimber).
3- PAF intruded in IOK From Naushera Sector.
4- Rajouri along with Bhimber Gali were the prime targets of PAF (approx 30 Km from Samhani).
5- Badgam was the crash site of Mil Mi-17 & Su-30 MKI (approx 80 Km from Rajouri, in a close aproximity of Badgam Air Base).
Baba G (a local in a video) saw 3 three pilots: 1st flown across the border with parachute (suggesting this area is very close to border), 2nd got in that area (Note: a sikh pilot). I am unable to understand what he said about the 3rd one, 3rd must be Abhinandan, who was captured from Bhimber Valley.
1- WC Abhinandan was arrested from Bhimber Valley.
2- Wreckage of Mig-21 Bison from Samhani Sector (approx 20 Km from Bhimber).
3- PAF intruded in IOK From Naushera Sector.
4- Rajouri along with Bhimber Gali were the prime targets of PAF (approx 30 Km from Samhani).
5- Badgam was the crash site of Mil Mi-17 & Su-30 MKI (approx 80 Km from Rajouri, in a close aproximity of Badgam Air Base).
Baba G (a local in a video) saw 3 three pilots: 1st flown across the border with parachute (suggesting this area is very close to border), 2nd got in that area (Note: a sikh pilot). I am unable to understand what he said about the 3rd one, 3rd must be Abhinandan, who was captured from Bhimber Valley.
Ali_Baba
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I think China should give PAF samples of both the PL-10 and PL-15 so that we can battle test them against the IAF. They will gain valuable knowledge and experience through this. We know the PL-5 and SD-10A have worked very well and we have lots of data from that encounter we can use for further analysis.
Hamza913
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So Flankers, Bisons and M-2000s weren't enough to stop Pakistani aircraft from bombing their targets? Even if we go by your sides account that's still a colossal failure, and it shows the PAF can still hit targets in India.
I agree with you, but further analysis isn't a bad thing.
If they helped you in the first place, why would they stop now?
Path-Finder
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Hamza913
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Because they don't want to escalate tensions.
You lost a F16 for this adventure .
AfrazulMandal
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Please. Some proof. Any proof.
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