PAF Scramble Time!!!

[ahussains]

Not about IN!....

Can any One Please about IAF Or IN both

 

[x_man]

I know for a fact that it takes as long as 15 minutes for the F-16 to startup. When the pilot starts the Jet fuel starter, it takes a few minutes for the main engine to get going. Then the pilot turns on the inertial navigation system which also takes a while to get going. I think the shortest time a skilled pilot could start the plane from off to afterburner is 5 minutes.

To reduce scramble time, the ADA aircrafts are ‘’accepted’’ and made ready before the first light. Acceptance is a procedure when pilots start the engines and test all the system functions, align INAS ( wherever applicable) , select aircraft configuration for takeoff ( flaps etc) , do the leak checks , check weapon systems , flight controls are checked along with few other things. Once all set, they switch off the engines and return to ADA hut. Now, once scrambled is ordered, pilots quickly jump in and bypass all the checks that they have already performed during acceptance and they quickly taxi out and takeoff.

6 minutes is a standard scramble time or a yardstick to measure scramble time, if anyone can takeoff in less time, it’s an advantage but if one takes more time, then he must have justification and a written explanation ready for taking longer time. IAF also has the same scramble times ( 6 minutes and 3 minutes )

1. What is the night interception capability of PAF. Do pilots use night vision system or not. How in the night, pilots visually identify the aircrfat,either its a frieldly or a bogey.

2. In movies, i have seen, that interceptor aircraft closes on to the intruder and pilot gives a massage on communication system to the other pilot of hostile aircraft. Does this really happens in real world.

Night interceptions are carried out with help of radar (Airborne Interceptor, AI). PAF previously had F-16s for this role now we have also Mirage III ROSE I with the Griffo radar. Aircraft at night can be identified by an special equipment called IFF (Identification Friend or Foe). No NVGs are used by PAF.

You may recall few kills by F-16 at night during Afghan war (1980s) and Indian UAV south of Lahore.

During day, aircraft recognition can be also achieved by visually looking at it. Once intercepted, leader closes in, comes parallel to intruder and can give standard visual signals that are understood universally. During all this time, while leader is trying to communicate with intruder, number 2 remains behind the intruder with him locked in his sight/radar. So if intruder tries to be funny or threatens the formation in any way…it can be tackled immediately.

Intruder , needs not be only from across the boders. It can be our own aircraft or an airliner that has somehow deviated from its flight plan or lost and is heading towards classified/restricted airspaces like Kahuta or Wah etc etc. I remember, once scambled from Peshawar agaist a slow moving and it was an Army Aviation Mushshak that had lost its radio and way and was heading towards one of the nuclear installations. The poor guy started to panic when he saw two A-5 with missles orbiting around him. Obviously we didnt shoot him and assisted him in making his way back to base safely.

 

[Blackpearl]

Night interceptions are carried out with help of radar (Airborne Interceptor, AI). PAF previously had F-16s for this role now we have also Mirage III ROSE I with the Griffo radar. Aircraft at night can be identified by an special equipment called IFF (Identification Friend or Foe). No NVGs are used by PAF.

Again thanx,

yet Mirage is not an interceptor??
secondly, in case of an alert, either it is F-16 which will be sent after the intruder or F-7. Which aircraft has better chnances.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Again thanx,

yet Mirage is not an interceptor??
secondly, in case of an alert, either it is F-16 which will be sent after the intruder or F-7. Which aircraft has better chnances.

F-7 is normally used as Interceptor in PAF!

Correct thou it depends on the requirements also.

 

[Muradk]

What about my earlier queries

1. Can PAF fight back intruders at night?

2. How they are going to have visual identification of the intruder, if not wearing NVGs.

Note: AirForce Personnles are highly forbidden to make comments here!!!

well that means me and X-men and out of the discission. I have no problems I just dont like discussing our operational procedures with civilians . thats all.

 

[x_man]

Dear Blackwater

The scramble procedures and timings that I have discussed above are universal and not only PAF specific. Airforces all over the world follow same procedures and if you are looking for some more indepth study about procedures, phases , signals , positions etc, heres a link for you. Do have a look at the Intercept phases.There is also a table in the end that gives the hand signals etc. Every civilian pilot is also suppose to know these procedures and signals in case of being intercepted.

http://amd.nbc.gov/dts/tsdocs/InterceptionProcedures.pdf

 

[Blackpearl]

well that means me and X-men and out of the discission. I have no problems I just dont like discussing our operational procedures with civilians . thats all.

No, definetily not sir, it was to address ur apprehension. Surely, nobody will share any professional and classified knowledge here. Above discussed things are just normal. And i have learned a lot in these two to three pages.

 

[Blackpearl]

The standard time of scramble is 3 minutes and 6 minutes. After that pilots are airborne. But this is the time starting from, when “Scramble’ order is handed down by the radar operator. Now it is upto the radar operator, how early he picks up the target.

All Pakistani radars are ground based. Due to land features, the radar’s range is bound to be limited. I think, limited to 100-120 km radius, max.

India has AWACS; it has purchased ‘Falcon’ system from Israel. This is an airborne radar, thus it can look into Pakistani area, while flying inside own territory ( Off course, staying away from 10 km buffer zone, inside own border. It implies that Indian radar operators are in a better position to call for scramble to Mig-29s/Mirage 2000s etc to engage Pakistani aircraft, even PAF has not crossed over the border. So Due to earlier calling of scramble, Indians still hav a lead time over Pakistanis. Once our fighters will be entering India, Indian fighters may have already started their engagement practices. AWACS has provided an advantage to IAF over PAF……….Isn’t it?

 

[x_man]

Scramble times ( 3 min, 6 min) with respect to pilots will remain same whether it’s ordered from ground based or Airborne command system. He will still take the same time from ADA hut to takeoff. It will not change.

I think that now you are talking about the time it will take to detect a target by radar operator. No doubt that airborne systems have an edge over ground based in terms of more reaction time available, large area coverage and better aerial picture. For example , an AWACS holding at 10 miles east of Amritsar at 30,000 feet will easily pickup any aircraft that has just airborne from Sargodha. He can then order a scramble from Adampur, or Pathankot etc and place his fighters in a better position with respect to the intruding aircrafts. He can workout his interception geometry in a much better and quicker way than his counterpart who is working on a ground based system.

 

[Muradk]

No, definetily not sir, it was to address ur apprehension. Surely, nobody will share any professional and classified knowledge here. Above discussed things are just normal. And i have learned a lot in these two to three pages.

Blackwater I would recommend you read this carefully.
The apprehension was towards you not X-man. If I need to say something to him I will you dont have to come between us.
This is a PAKISTANI DEFENSE FORUM so you dont say:
Note: AirForce Personnles are highly forbidden to make comments here!!!

Next time dont try to act smart , If you have a question just put it on the thread and if someone wishes to answer they will.

 

[ejaz007]

IAF has purchased but not received Phalcon system. IAF most likely shall receive system in 2009 if all goes well. Similarly PAF has ordered Swedish airborne system and most likely shall receive it in June 2008 if all go according to plan.
Scramble time depends on the situation. In peacetime it is slightly longer but when situation is tense or there are chances of hostilities then this time is less since some fighters are on cockpit readiness and some are airborne.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

IAF has purchased but not received Phalcon system. IAF most likely shall receive system in 2009 if all goes well. Similarly PAF has ordered Swedish airborne system and most likely shall receive it in June 2008 if all go according to plan..

Correcto! ...

Scramble time depends on the situation. In peacetime it is slightly longer but when situation is tense or there are chances of hostilities then this time is less since some fighters are on cockpit readiness and some are airborne.

Normally, when PAF is at high alert, every squadron (AD that is) or as per the location of sensitive insurgency location around Pakistan, keep jets in packs , airborne.

MuradK will know better

 

[su-47]

The standard time of scramble is 3 minutes and 6 minutes. After that pilots are airborne. But this is the time starting from, when “Scramble’ order is handed down by the radar operator. Now it is upto the radar operator, how early he picks up the target.

All Pakistani radars are ground based. Due to land features, the radar’s range is bound to be limited. I think, limited to 100-120 km radius, max.

India has AWACS; it has purchased ‘Falcon’ system from Israel. This is an airborne radar, thus it can look into Pakistani area, while flying inside own territory ( Off course, staying away from 10 km buffer zone, inside own border. It implies that Indian radar operators are in a better position to call for scramble to Mig-29s/Mirage 2000s etc to engage Pakistani aircraft, even PAF has not crossed over the border. So Due to earlier calling of scramble, Indians still hav a lead time over Pakistanis. Once our fighters will be entering India, Indian fighters may have already started their engagement practices. AWACS has provided an advantage to IAF over PAF……….Isn’t it?

India doesnt have those AWACs yet. Thanks to a delay by the Russians in modifying IL-76s to house the radar, the Phalcons will only enter service in 2009.

Pakistan has also ordered AWACs. They are called Erieye. Will be entering service in 2008 i believe

 

[Blackpearl]

India doesnt have those AWACs yet. Thanks to a delay by the Russians in modifying IL-76s to house the radar, the Phalcons will only enter service in 2009.

Pakistan has also ordered AWACs. They are called Erieye. Will be entering service in 2008 i believe

What about having advance warning using spy satellites. India has some satellites upthere. Or else??

 

[Blackpearl]

Blackwater I would recommend you read this carefully.
The apprehension was towards you not X-man. If I need to say something to him I will you dont have to come between us.
This is a PAKISTANI DEFENSE FORUM so you dont say:
Note: AirForce Personnles are highly forbidden to make comments here!!!

Next time dont try to act smart , If you have a question just put it on the thread and if someone wishes to answer they will.

I donot understand , Sir , what is your point.