Paf Is Run By Fighter Mafia Jocks---Kaiser Tufail Is Wrong

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan khan

seems like the PAF lost the focus why it exists.
when the Army aviation (corps) and later independent airforce was envisioned

the bombers were the primary force, the whole reason to militarise the aircrafts. they were used for Artillery reccy and later on bombing.

the fighter element was added as a compulsion and as forced necessity to safegaurd the bombers. the role of the air corps was still to support the ground forces, plotting maps, recon and bombing.

but yes , with the air kills the fighters got the glamorous fame. it was the bombers that ended the WW2. brought Japan to its knees, blew up the German Dams and disrupted its supply chains , performed carpet bombing, blitz, morale bombing.

and then the issue of strike plans, that role is also loathed and looked down upon. this mentality is not PAF specific, sadly it is present in other countries too. CAP role seems to be too low for a pilot (check out the initial reactions and rejections to A-10s)

Hi,

Not going for the A 10 was a blunder---and was it the hawkeye that they missed as well---. You are correct about the ww2 and japan----.

You remember the Vietnam war---when the vietnamese walked out of the paris peace talks---the americans tried every which way to get them back---but the Vietnamese were smelling victory and told the americanns to get lost----and then the americans lashed out with the linebacker 2----within 24 hours the Vietnamese were on their knees begging the americans to come back---they did---after 1 week of bombings by the B52's---Vietnams capital was smashed---its naval ports destroyed----in 7 days of destruction---Vietnam lost so much that they could neer gain in 30 years after that.

Being a heavy bomber is like possessing the sledge hammer of the gods---raining death and destruction in massive dose without mercy.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

Not going for the A 10 was a blunder---and was it the hawkeye that they missed as well---. You are correct about the ww2 and japan----.

You remember the Vietnam war---when the vietnamese walked out of the paris peace talks---the americans tried every which way to get them back---but the Vietnamese were smelling victory and told the americanns to get lost----and then the americans lashed out with the linebacker 2----within 24 hours the Vietnamese were on their knees begging the americans to come back---they did---after 1 week of bombings by the B52's---Vietnams capital was smashed---its naval ports destroyed----in 7 days of destruction---Vietnam lost so much that they could neer gain in 30 years after that.

Being a heavy bomber is like possessing the sledge hammer of the gods---raining death and destruction in massive dose without mercy.

it is amazing to read the work of our our bomber pilots of 1965 but it seems like their kind was hunted down and phased out like those B-57 bombers.

that fighter mindset is so strong that even a twin engine jet is not allowed just in case the low life navy or army asks of them to perform any useful strike role.

 

[anonymus]

Thats what Cruise Missiles are for. If we really need bombers, a squadron of Su-34 Fullback is the answer.

What Cruise missiles?

Probably you could not comprehend what is being written in the writeup. The write up is about striking Indian Army formations using Bombers/Fighter Bombers for Close air support of your Army.

Cruise missiles could not target mobile Armored corps. At best they could target Bunkers. On top of it, a SU-35/30 could deliver more payload in a single sitting than combine tonnage of puny warheads that your cruise missiles could carry.

The contention of author was to have bomb trucks like SU30/35 which could bomb Indian runways and Armored formation.

 

[MastanKhan]

PAF potential threat planning is more or less similar to what the Israeli airforce has in place. Both face larger oponents with low strategic depth.

Sir,

You are incorrect---Idaf always had the strike capability to strike at the farthest posts of the enemy at any given time at its discretion. Nothing was safe from Idaf---.

Egypt had nothing to counter---it did not have any aircraft to reach and strike Israel.

Paf---is a liar---it has lied to the people---for the longest. They may have a game plan---every loser has a game plan.

Even the magnificent 300 were smashed by the Persian armies. Your air force needs to reach the enemy's heart lands---dehli---agra---Mumbai and other south indian cities.

 

[Spy Master]

@MastanKhan is there two type of pilots in any AF? fighter and bomber?

 

[anonymus]

imagine how many cruise missiles you need to stop 33 divisions moving on your country from Sindh to Kashmir.

X

 

[Kompromat]

What Cruise missiles?

Probably you could not comprehend what is being written in the writeup. The write up is about striking Indian Army formations using Bombers/Fighter Bombers for Close air support of your Army.

Cruise missiles could not target mobile Armored corps. At best they could target Bunkers. On top of it, a SU-35/30 could deliver more payload in a single sitting than combine tonnage of puny warheads that your cruise missiles could carry.

The contention of author was to have bomb trucks like SU30/35 which could bomb Indian runways and Armored formation.

Unlike Brahmos, Babur can 'loiter', even switch targets, and can be reprogrammed mid air. US did use Tomahawks against the Iraqi Army formations. They are very suitable for delivering sensor fused bomblets over enemy armor formations. Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Thermobaric weapons are also compatible with Babur like vehicles.

 

[VCheng]

A loitering weapon that can be re-programmed in mid-air can be subject to hacking with devastating consequences.

 

[Darth Vader]

Sir,

You are incorrect---Idaf always had the strike capability to strike at the farthest posts of the enemy at any given time at its discretion. Nothing was safe from Idaf---.

Egypt had nothing to counter---it did not have any aircraft to reach and strike Israel.

Paf---is a liar---it has lied to the people---for the longest. They may have a game plan---every loser has a game plan.

Even the magnificent 300 were smashed by the Persian armies. Your air force needs to reach the enemy's heart lands---dehli---agra---Mumbai and other south indian cities.

Well have seen Few of your posts and article this is not 1940s where You can Put tons of bombers and let the looses Just vanish away If you have seen What Germany planes did to Allied heavies i think its the best answer for You No Modern Air force will put their heavies until they have total air superiority at that area or they are ready to loose , In modern war even loosing 3 , 4 this is just out of Question
If You see Pakistan's economy They are Doing what they can do F 16 , JF 17 yes they are medium, Small jets But They can do the jobs of both Bombing , and A2A

 

[SQ8]

@MastanKhan
I would disagree, yes there are fighter jocks(just as the entire IDFAF is fighter jocks) but the PAF does have an understanding of what its major pitfalls are. I have said this many a times when you made the argument for the Gripen.. that the PAF never wanted another interceptor then as well as they had the JF-17 coming in. The love saga with the M2k has been precidely because the PAF wanted a bomber. They needed an aircraft to be able to go penetrate enemy airspace with success, have excellent accuracy in both stand-off and level bombing.. and be able to hug the ground and run out of there. The M2K was the PAFs choice for this job and still might be. However, since that has not happened they have had to improvise.

The ZDK and SAAB-2000 scenario had its own issues.. There was statement by the ex chief against Musharraf but the issue was more about who was lobbying Musharraf from the inside and his own ideas. Take James Dolittle of the famous dolittle raiders.. he being a bomber fellow made bomber specific changes to the USAAF by cutting fighter escorts because he put in too much faith in bomber defences which in many cases led to the massacre of Bombers by the Luftwaffe during the Ruhr raids.

the PAF is NOT going to project power outside its borders, and for that it is perfectly suited with a fighter mafia.

 

[sathya]

Don't. Take Russia for granted, because of our friendship , and Chinese piracy , best of the weapons were restricted to who could be a threat to India..

China has a possibility of getting su 35 , when India gets pak fa..

For Pakistan

F16 is the best bet... Buy more of them

Else Chinese flankers

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@MastanKhan @Oscar

Why was JH 7 overlooked ; or JF 17 chosen over JH 7

Is JH7 old technology ; No FBW etc

 

[anonymus]

Unlike Brahmos, Babur can 'loiter', even switch targets, and can be reprogrammed mid air.

No, Babur could not loiter, even tomahawk could not loiter. Anyone believing that it could loiter it is a delusional fanboi.

The myth of loitering capability of Cruise missiles, whether Babur or Tomahawk is product of deliberate misinterpretation of word loitering by Fanbois. Tomahawk just have capability to be re-routed in flight, ie a Tomahawk assigned for Target A at it's launch could be directed to Target B. It does not have a capability to loiter around a target and take movement of that target into cognizance.Only Delilah Cruise missile of Israel has active loitering capabilities and it is very short ranged missile designed from the outset for mobile targets. It is more of a suicide UAV than a Cruise missile.

Even these limited loitering capabilities of Babur are not proven.And Pakistan would not have active loitering capability unless it has military communication satellites.


Here this extract:

Tomahawk, which could loiter is test phase.

In 2014, Raytheon began testing Block IV improvements to attack sea and moving land targets

Tomahawk (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US did use Tomahawks against the Iraqi Army formations

Because Iraqi army formations had close to 0 mobility.

They are very suitable for delivering sensor fused bomblets over enemy armor formations. Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Thermobaric weapons are also compatible with Babur like vehicles.

Hot air, noting more.

Not possible with a 300 Kg warhead.

BTW @MastanKhan , in every airforce, CAS duties are being taken up by Attack choppers rather than Aircrafts.

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan @Oscar

Why was JH 7 overlooked ; or JF 17 chosen over JH 7

Is JH7 old technology ; No FBW etc

Hi,

I am talking abut the JH 7 B---that should be one of the considerations along with the J11 pedigree.

@MastanKhan
I would disagree, yes there are fighter jocks(just as the entire IDFAF is fighter jocks) but the PAF does have an understanding of what its major pitfalls are. I have said this many a times when you made the argument for the Gripen.. that the PAF never wanted another interceptor then as well as they had the JF-17 coming in. The love saga with the M2k has been precidely because the PAF wanted a bomber. They needed an aircraft to be able to go penetrate enemy airspace with success, have excellent accuracy in both stand-off and level bombing.. and be able to hug the ground and run out of there. The M2K was the PAFs choice for this job and still might be. However, since that has not happened they have had to improvise.

The ZDK and SAAB-2000 scenario had its own issues.. There was statement by the ex chief against Musharraf but the issue was more about who was lobbying Musharraf from the inside and his own ideas. Take James Dolittle of the famous dolittle raiders.. he being a bomber fellow made bomber specific changes to the USAAF by cutting fighter escorts because he put in too much faith in bomber defences which in many cases led to the massacre of Bombers by the Luftwaffe during the Ruhr raids.

the PAF is NOT going to project power outside its borders, and for that it is perfectly suited with a fighter mafia.

Hi,

My cause for the Grippen was in 2003--2005----. Grippens not now---Rafales aytime---I would still like to have the M2k9's----.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Irfan Baloch Sir

It will be much more than 34 divisions bearing down on Pakistan
from Kashmir to Sindh

@Horus

The mechanized armies in the Western Sector (deployed against Pakistan) are mobile, balanced groupings of very high striking power

The fine synthesization of cutting-edge weaponry into high-value, capital-intensive combat groups is seen at its best here

Add to it the overall Force concentration and force ratios
which are very much in India's favour